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# Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young

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Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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17 Jul 2012, 16:50
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Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

(A) Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress
(B) Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women had collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which to dress
(C) According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress
(D) Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed
(E) Records from ancient Athens indicate each year young Athenian women had collaborated to weave a new woolen robe for dressing

Quote:
I need some suggestion as to why C is wrong
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens [#permalink]

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17 Jul 2012, 19:36
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C violates parallelism since it is records that indicates " " in the second part of the sentence. D wins for brevity and conciseness over C
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens [#permalink]

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20 Jul 2012, 15:41
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maybeam wrote:
Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

(A) Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress
(B) Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women had collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which to dress
(C) According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress
(D) Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed
(E) Records from ancient Athens indicate each year young Athenian women had collaborated to weave a new woolen robe for dressing

Quote:
I need some suggestion as to why C is wrong

Dear maybeam,
I'm happy to toss in my 2 cents here.

I agree with what rajmatthew said----
1) because we have the "that this robe . . ." clause at the end of the sentence, we need a parallel clause of something indicated by the ancient records. (D) has a parallel "indicate that" clause, but (C) structures the first part of the sentence without "that", so there's no parallelism
2) (D) is direct and concise, what the GMAT loves

I would also add:

(C) ... a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue ...
(D) ...a new woolen robe with which they dressed a statue ...

Think about these structured rearranged as independent clauses
(C') They used a new woolen robe to dress the statue.
(D') They dressed the statue with a new woolen robe.

The first is clumsy --- the active verb is "used", and the action of dressing is relegated to the infinitive. In the second, the active verb is "dressed", which is the literal action taking place. If you think about the people there doing what they are doing, what verb best describes that activity --- "using" or "dressing"? Clearly, they are dressing the statue. The active verb in the sentence should reflect the activity of the real people engaged in the event.

Does this make sense? Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Mike
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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02 Sep 2013, 21:52
Can somebody help me on why the parallelism in option C is wrong??
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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03 Sep 2013, 10:12
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gmatter0913 wrote:
Can somebody help me on why the parallelism in option C is wrong??

Dear gmatter0913,
I'm happy to help.

First of all, parallelism is not only the problem with (C). It's just an awkward nightmare on a few levels.

Here's the parallelism problem. First, look at the OA. Choice (D), the OA, has parallel "that" clauses:

Records from ancient Athens indicate
//that each year ... goddess Athena
and
//that this robe ... giants.
The two "that" clause are both things indicted by the ancient records.

Now, compare this to (C) ----- one "that" clause describes the robe(" ... a new woolen robe that they used to ...), and the other is telling us an event that happened ---- it would be an object of the verb "indicate", if that verb appeared in (C); as it stands, it's not exactly clear what the role of this "that" clause is. Those two "that" clauses are not even pretending to do the same thing, so they are not parallel.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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03 Sep 2013, 22:49

Mike, Could it also be that option C is wrong because of the presence of 'this robe' in the second 'that clause'? (described below)

Option C
C. According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

If option C were to be correct, then I thought it has to be as below.

C. According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that (robe) depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

As the non-underlined part is having the additional "this robe", we can deduce that the second "that" cannot be used to mean "robe" as in option C.

Do you think this line of reasoning is correct?
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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04 Sep 2013, 11:00
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gmatter0913 wrote:

Mike, Could it also be that option C is wrong because of the presence of 'this robe' in the second 'that clause'? (described below)

Option C
C. According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

If option C were to be correct, then I thought it has to be as below.

C. According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that (robe) depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

As the non-underlined part is having the additional "this robe", we can deduce that the second "that" cannot be used to mean "robe" as in option C.

Do you think this line of reasoning is correct?

Yes, the sentence would be correct of both "that" clauses were in parallel as noun-modifiers, modifying "robe" -----
According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe
//that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena
and
//that depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants
There, each "that" is a subordinate conjunction, introducing a subordinate clause that modifies the noun "robe".

If we include the word "robe", then the word "that" is merely a noun-modifier modifying robe, and we get two independent clauses ---
According to records from ancient Athens,
(Independent clause #1) each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena
and
(Independent clause #2) that robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants

Either of those is 100% grammatically correct.

This is why, in the non-underlined part, the GMAT is very careful to specify ---- and that this robe depicted .... this "that" clause is a substantive clause, a clause that acts as a noun. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/substantiv ... -the-gmat/
A noun can only have one demonstrative modifier --- we can say "this robe" or "that robe", but if we say "that this robe", the first "that" can't be a noun-modifier modifying robe, so it has play another role. The word "that" has a bewildering number of roles. Here, it is as a subordinate conjunction, introducing a substantive clause.

A substantive clause doesn't make sense just standing by itself in a sentence ---- it needs to be either a subject of some verb, or it needs to be the direct object of some cognitive/informational verb --- to think, to say, to believe, to know, to indicate, etc.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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22 Sep 2014, 20:08
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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26 Sep 2015, 10:10
Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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21 Jun 2016, 19:59
mikemcgarry wrote:
gmatter0913 wrote:

Mike, Could it also be that option C is wrong because of the presence of 'this robe' in the second 'that clause'? (described below)

Option C
C. According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

If option C were to be correct, then I thought it has to be as below.

C. According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that (robe) depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

As the non-underlined part is having the additional "this robe", we can deduce that the second "that" cannot be used to mean "robe" as in option C.

Do you think this line of reasoning is correct?

Yes, the sentence would be correct of both "that" clauses were in parallel as noun-modifiers, modifying "robe" -----
According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe
//that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena
and
//that depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants
There, each "that" is a subordinate conjunction, introducing a subordinate clause that modifies the noun "robe".

If we include the word "robe", then the word "that" is merely a noun-modifier modifying robe, and we get two independent clauses ---
According to records from ancient Athens,
(Independent clause #1) each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena
and
(Independent clause #2) that robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants

Either of those is 100% grammatically correct.

This is why, in the non-underlined part, the GMAT is very careful to specify ---- and that this robe depicted .... this "that" clause is a substantive clause, a clause that acts as a noun. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/substantiv ... -the-gmat/
A noun can only have one demonstrative modifier --- we can say "this robe" or "that robe", but if we say "that this robe", the first "that" can't be a noun-modifier modifying robe, so it has play another role. The word "that" has a bewildering number of roles. Here, it is as a subordinate conjunction, introducing a substantive clause.

A substantive clause doesn't make sense just standing by itself in a sentence ---- it needs to be either a subject of some verb, or it needs to be the direct object of some cognitive/informational verb --- to think, to say, to believe, to know, to indicate, etc.

Does all this make sense?
Mike

Hey Mike,

I have a question about this - if you dont mind clearing things up!

Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

I a going to focus only on the points of interest - and was wondering if we can use TENSE amonst parallelism to eliminate C here since in the non-underlined portion after the AND we have depicted in the past tense, or we must match this to the first part:

(C) According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress
(D) Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed

Is this proper analysis?

Thanks.
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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22 Jun 2016, 12:04
GMATDemiGod wrote:
Hey Mike,

I have a question about this - if you dont mind clearing things up!

Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress a statue of the goddess Athena and that this robe depicted scenes of a battle between Zeus, Athena's father, and giants.

I a going to focus only on the points of interest - and was wondering if we can use TENSE amonst parallelism to eliminate C here since in the non-underlined portion after the AND we have depicted in the past tense, or we must match this to the first part:

(C) According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress
(D) Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed

Is this proper analysis?

Thanks.

Dear GMATDemiGod,
I'm happy to respond.

1) Verbs in parallel do NOT have to match in tense, even if they have the same subject. In fact, one could be active and one passive. See:
GMAT Grammar Rules: Parallelism and Verb Tenses
For the purposes of establishing proper parallelism, verb tense doesn't matter at all.

2) Both "used to dress" and "dressed" are past tense. In the former, you highlighted "dress" in the infinitive, which technically is tense-less.

Does all this help?
Mike
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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22 Jun 2016, 12:59
(C) According to records from ancient Athens, each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe that they used to dress
(D) Records from ancient Athens indicate that each year young Athenian women collaborated to weave a new woolen robe with which they dressed

The bold portions make D as a better answer than C.
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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07 Nov 2016, 21:35
mikemcgarry

Thanks Mike for the step by step explanation.

The word "with which they..." made me reject the option D. Can you share some insights how to handle these problems, especially where ambiguous word formation (not common) comes in place. I have seen your earlier SC explanations where these word formations were sometimes correct or wrong.
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Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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08 Nov 2016, 16:50
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ankitmining wrote:
mikemcgarry

Thanks Mike for the step by step explanation.

The word "with which they..." made me reject the option D. Can you share some insights how to handle these problems, especially where ambiguous word formation (not common) comes in place. I have seen your earlier SC explanations where these word formations were sometimes correct or wrong.

Dear ankitmining,

I'm happy to respond.

The word "which" is a relative pronoun. Other examples are "who," "what," and "that." A relative pronoun begins a relative clause, which is a kind of subordinate or dependent clause, and the relative pronoun plays a role in that clause. Within the action of the relative clause, the relative pronoun could be the subject, the direct object, or the object of a proposition.

As a subject of the relative clause:
This is my friend who plays the violin.
I have a car that gets good gas mileage.

As a direct object of the relative clause:
This is my friend whom the conductor said was the violinist in the city.
I have a car that my neighbor wants to buy.
Notice that the pronoun "who," like the personal pronouns "he" and "she," changes case with different grammatical roles.

As the object of a prepositional phrase within the relative clause:
This is my friend to whom the music award was given.
This is my friend from whom I learned about classical music.
I have a car with which my neighbor is infatuated.
I have a car to which my neighbor refers in a poem.

All of these are structures you will see in sophisticated reading. I highly recommend the habit of reading so that you learn all these structures. See:
How to Improve Your GMAT Verbal Score

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Re: Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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20 Feb 2017, 18:41
Sorry to bump such an old thread. But why is A wrong?

Thanks!
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Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young [#permalink]

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20 Feb 2017, 19:39
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Sorry to bump such an old thread. But why is A wrong?

Thanks!

'Based on' is VERBed Modifier that modifies first noun of the clause 'each year' The meaning implies that 'each year is based on records'. This is nonsensical meaning.

So you can eliminate A & B for same reason above.
Based on records from ancient Athens, each year young   [#permalink] 20 Feb 2017, 19:39
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