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Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 02 Dec 2013, 19:14
C is not ambiguous. :yikes Its perfect. If anything, I was confused between C & D before realizing that D had redundancy issues. Hence C. :teleport

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 02 Dec 2013, 23:38
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ayushman wrote:
mohnish104 wrote:
C is not ambiguous. :yikes Its perfect. If anything, I was confused between C & D before realizing that D had redundancy issues. Hence C. :teleport

Can you please explain what redundancy issues does D have. I am not able to figure this out.[/q J

Just as you don't use the words annual and year in the same sentence because they mean the same thing, you don't use make and synthesize in the same sentence because they mean the same thing. Synthetic also means artificial/unnatural/man made. You don't make something natural, you find something natural.


Hope it helps.

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 03 Dec 2013, 00:58
mohnish104 wrote:
Just as you don't use the words annual and year in the same sentence because they mean the same thing, you don't use make and synthesize in the same sentence because they mean the same thing. Synthetic also means artificial/unnatural/man made. You don't make something natural, you find something natural.
Hope it helps.

Yes it does help..thanks. It was very subtle. I can definitely not figure this out on the exam day.

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 11 Dec 2013, 02:29
Choices C and D are the contenders.

C. scientist learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed
D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly

Even though synthesize the growth hormone and make a synthetic growth hormone are similar in meaning, there is another error in meaning if choice D is closely observed. D says that everytime before learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly. There is a clear distortion in the meaning of the original sentence, which intends to say that before scientists actually learned how to synthesize, they use to painstakingly remove it. Hence C is perfect here.

Hope I am correct. Thanks.
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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small amounts
from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.

1:meaning analysis
before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove the growth hormone painstakingly in small amounts from its place.

2:error analysis
sentence fragment. dependent clause+,+ phrase

3:POE
A.
B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly
in fact the second sentence's verb must be stated in past participle from + it in the second part refers to a synthetic growth hormone while it should refer to growth hormone

C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed


D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
changes meaning. it implies that before learning how to do x they had to do y+ pronoun reference error "it" refers to a synthetic growth hormone while it should refer to growth hormone

E. learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed by scientists
modifier error+ no need for the passive form

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 10 May 2014, 22:37
Bibinaz wrote:
Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small amounts
from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.

1:meaning analysis
before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove the growth hormone painstakingly in small amounts from its place.

2:error analysis
sentence fragment. dependent clause+,+ phrase

3:POE
A.
B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly
in fact the second sentence's verb must be stated in past participle from + it in the second part refers to a synthetic growth hormone while it should refer to growth hormone

C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed


D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
changes meaning. it implies that before learning how to do x they had to do y+ pronoun reference error "it" refers to a synthetic growth hormone while it should refer to growth hormone

E. learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed by scientists
modifier error+ no need for the passive form


Thanks for the explanation..
Just to understand..Can u plz help us to explain more on "in fact the second sentence's verb must be stated in past participle from" ?

Cheers

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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addict1ve wrote:
Bibinaz wrote:
Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small amounts
from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.

1:meaning analysis
before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove the growth hormone painstakingly in small amounts from its place.

2:error analysis
sentence fragment. dependent clause+,+ phrase

3:POE
A.
B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly
in fact the second sentence's verb must be stated in past participle from + it in the second part refers to a synthetic growth hormone while it should refer to growth hormone

C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed


D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
changes meaning. it implies that before learning how to do x they had to do y+ pronoun reference error "it" refers to a synthetic growth hormone while it should refer to growth hormone

E. learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed by scientists
modifier error+ no need for the passive form


Thanks for the explanation..
Just to understand..Can u plz help us to explain more on "in fact the second sentence's verb must be stated in past participle from" ?

Cheers



addict1ve thanks for your Kudos,

we use past perfect form when verb sequencing is present. it means two actions took place in the past, and one of these actions happened earlier than the second one+ these two actions are related.

for example: his wife divorced him because he had had an affair. "had had affair" is the earlier action and "divorced" is the later action.

here by "in fact the second sentence's verb must be stated in past participle form" I meant if we want to use past participle verb form, we should use it for the earlier action. the earlier action here is removing the growth hormone painstakingly, and the action of learning is the later action.
so for sure the usage of past participle form of the verb for earlier action in choice B is incorrect.

however, by your question I've remembered three important points:
1- we use past perfect from for two actions that are related.
2- both actions should be in the past tense
3- if time marker is present in the sentence, using past perfect is not necessary. ( under this condition if the earlier action expressed in simple past then the sentence is not incorrect)

hope it helps.

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 27 May 2014, 06:19
PTK wrote:
Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small
amounts from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.

A. scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly
B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly
C. scientist learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed
D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
E. Learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it have to be painstakingly removed by scientists

I will proide OA later after 8-10 posts.


C

ABD out, because making a synthetic hormone is redundant given that synthetic already encapsulates the meaning of being made.
E is out because of SVA "it" needs "has".

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 24 Nov 2014, 11:14
I think this is one of the toughest questions in SC.
The most tricky options are C and D. One of them is correct.

Now D is wrong because Pronoun 'it' refers to 'synthetic growth hormone'. Why 'it' here is wrong but not in C.
As per D, scientists had to remove "synthetic growth hormone" isn't it nonsensical? How can you remove something synthetic from cadavers?

In C 'it' refers to growth hormone. Not "synthetic growth hormone"

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 12 Dec 2014, 01:00
What is the difference between C and D? I chose D and honestly, it looks just about fine.

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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Great question.

There is a meaning difference between c & d.

C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed => This means scientists had to remove the growth hormone from the glands
D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly => There is a meaning issue here. scientists were trying to remove the growth hormone, not the synthetic growth hormone. C corrects this meaning issue. Let me know if that makes sense.
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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jan 2015, 03:32
Doesn't the C) scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed option lack past perfect tense? There are two actions in the past and the word "before" clearly indicates that one action preceded the other. I would therefore conclude that this choice is wrong as there is no had before had to be.... I think the correct version is supposed to be "scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had had to be painstakingly removed"

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 19 Mar 2015, 01:05
Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small amounts from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.

A. scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly
fragment sentence

B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly
"what they learn" happened after "what they had done", therefore the use of past perticiple is uncorrect
"it" is use to prefer to "a synthetic growth hormone" distort the meaning of the sentence


C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed


D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
"it" is use to prefer to "a synthetic growth hormone" distort the meaning of the sentence

E. learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it have to be painstakingly removed by scientists
"Learning how to ..." wrongly modifies "it"

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2015, 08:01
In A, as you said, it can refer back to "synthetic growth hormone" but it is a pronoun and so it can refer back only to noun, which is growth hormone in this case. Over here "synthetic" is working like an adjective so "it" should not refer back to "synthetic growth hormone". Just my understanding, I might be wrong.

Experts can you please guide.


gmacforjyoab wrote:
Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small amounts from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.
The sentence is meant to say - before scientists learnt how to make synthetic growth hormones , they used to go through the painful way to extract the hormones ( growth hormones) i.e the growth hormones were removed from human cadavers

A. scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly
Sentence fragment . There is no working verb in the sentence - "before scientists learned <> , removing it <>"
the "IT" here refers to "synthetic growth hormone" , rather than "growth hormones" ( it was not the "synthetic growth hormones" that they removed from human cadavers , but was the growth hormones .


B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly

*error in tense. The learning of making synthetic hormone , happened after they used to remove growth hormone in a painstaking way . Hence "had" in first part of sentence is incorrect.
* the "IT" in second part of the sentence refers to "synthetic growth hormone " rather than just "growth hormone" , conveying an absurd meaning that "before scientists learned to make synthetic growth hormone , they used to remove synthetic growth hormone from pituitary glands".


C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed
CORRECT : the "IT" here refers to "growth hormone" , hence conveying a correct meaning.Sentence is framed in a proper Tense.

D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
Same issue with "IT" as in A and B.

E. learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it have to be painstakingly removed by scientists

*Modifier error- doesn't convey who is synthesizing the growth hormone ( comma should immediately follow with the noun scientist . Which is not the case here).
Tense error - messes up the tense issue ( should be "had" instead of "have" , since this action is not happening anymore now and this happened before the scientists learned to synthesize).


-Jyothi

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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rohitmanglik wrote:
In A, as you said, it can refer back to "synthetic growth hormone" but it is a pronoun and so it can refer back only to noun, which is growth hormone in this case. Over here "synthetic" is working like an adjective so "it" should not refer back "synthetic growth hormone" as well. Just my understanding, I might be wrong.

Experts can you please guide.


gmacforjyoab wrote:
Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small amounts from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.
The sentence is meant to say - before scientists learnt how to make synthetic growth hormones , they used to go through the painful way to extract the hormones ( growth hormones) i.e the growth hormones were removed from human cadavers

A. scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly
Sentence fragment . There is no working verb in the sentence - "before scientists learned <> , removing it <>"
the "IT" here refers to "synthetic growth hormone" , rather than "growth hormones" ( it was not the "synthetic growth hormones" that they removed from human cadavers , but was the growth hormones .


B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly

*error in tense. The learning of making synthetic hormone , happened after they used to remove growth hormone in a painstaking way . Hence "had" in first part of sentence is incorrect.
* the "IT" in second part of the sentence refers to "synthetic growth hormone " rather than just "growth hormone" , conveying an absurd meaning that "before scientists learned to make synthetic growth hormone , they used to remove synthetic growth hormone from pituitary glands".


C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed
CORRECT : the "IT" here refers to "growth hormone" , hence conveying a correct meaning.Sentence is framed in a proper Tense.

D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
Same issue with "IT" as in A and B.

E. learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it have to be painstakingly removed by scientists

*Modifier error- doesn't convey who is synthesizing the growth hormone ( comma should immediately follow with the noun scientist . Which is not the case here).
Tense error - messes up the tense issue ( should be "had" instead of "have" , since this action is not happening anymore now and this happened before the scientists learned to synthesize).


-Jyothi



It or any subject or object pronoun will refer to the exact same thing. So it does refer to the synthetic growth hormone here. BTW, synthetic and growth both are adjectives of hormone here. So going by your interpretation it should just refer to hormone.

Further lets consider following sentence:

Middle managers often work under tremendous pressures and they often further seek help from their managers.

Now here middle is an adjective of managers. Now replace they with managers and you will understand why they should refer to "middle managers" and not just managers.

Middle managers often work under tremendous pressures and managers often further seek help from their managers.

Managers seek help from their managers. It is not clear which manager seek help. The hierarchy is lost.

Hope it helps
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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 13 Sep 2015, 11:17
According to the MGMAT SC

It - Always refers to the singular antecedent.

(C) scientists ( Plural ) learned how to synthesize the growth hormone ( Singular), it had to be painstakingly removed

There is no antecedent Pronoun Reference in this case , hence IT clearly refers to singular antecedent the growth hormone
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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 16 Sep 2015, 11:06
Hi Tarun (@tarunktuteja),

Can we say the same in the case of "which/that/who etc" as well?

-Rohit

tarunktuteja wrote:
rohitmanglik wrote:
In A, as you said, it can refer back to "synthetic growth hormone" but it is a pronoun and so it can refer back only to noun, which is growth hormone in this case. Over here "synthetic" is working like an adjective so "it" should not refer back "synthetic growth hormone" as well. Just my understanding, I might be wrong.

Experts can you please guide.


gmacforjyoab wrote:
Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly in small amounts from the pituitary glands of human cadavers.
The sentence is meant to say - before scientists learnt how to make synthetic growth hormones , they used to go through the painful way to extract the hormones ( growth hormones) i.e the growth hormones were removed from human cadavers

A. scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly
Sentence fragment . There is no working verb in the sentence - "before scientists learned <> , removing it <>"
the "IT" here refers to "synthetic growth hormone" , rather than "growth hormones" ( it was not the "synthetic growth hormones" that they removed from human cadavers , but was the growth hormones .


B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly

*error in tense. The learning of making synthetic hormone , happened after they used to remove growth hormone in a painstaking way . Hence "had" in first part of sentence is incorrect.
* the "IT" in second part of the sentence refers to "synthetic growth hormone " rather than just "growth hormone" , conveying an absurd meaning that "before scientists learned to make synthetic growth hormone , they used to remove synthetic growth hormone from pituitary glands".


C. scientists learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed
CORRECT : the "IT" here refers to "growth hormone" , hence conveying a correct meaning.Sentence is framed in a proper Tense.

D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly
Same issue with "IT" as in A and B.

E. learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it have to be painstakingly removed by scientists

*Modifier error- doesn't convey who is synthesizing the growth hormone ( comma should immediately follow with the noun scientist . Which is not the case here).
Tense error - messes up the tense issue ( should be "had" instead of "have" , since this action is not happening anymore now and this happened before the scientists learned to synthesize).


-Jyothi



It or any subject or object pronoun will refer to the exact same thing. So it does refer to the synthetic growth hormone here. BTW, synthetic and growth both are adjectives of hormone here. So going by your interpretation it should just refer to hormone.

Further lets consider following sentence:

Middle managers often work under tremendous pressures and they often further seek help from their managers.

Now here middle is an adjective of managers. Now replace they with managers and you will understand why they should refer to "middle managers" and not just managers.

Middle managers often work under tremendous pressures and managers often further seek help from their managers.

Managers seek help from their managers. It is not clear which manager seek help. The hierarchy is lost.

Hope it helps

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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rohitmanglik
You are wrongly interpreting the sentence. Let's consider the sentence you mentioned.

Employing the same techniques to genetically enhance plants, which make them disease- or pest-resistant.

Here the part highighted in blue is an infinitive phrase. It is basically acting as a modifiers here. Here the inifinitive phrase "to genetically enhance plants" is basically modifying techniques. Let's deconstruct the infinitive phrase here.

to genetically enhance plants. Infinitives are nothing but to+pure form of verb. An infinitive phrase is nothing but an infinitive + some modifiers. Here "genetically" is basically an adverb modifying the verb enhance. "Plants" is basically the object of inifinitive. So genetically and enhance are not the adjectives modifying plants. plants is basically a noun which is the object of the action enhance.

So basically who/which/that etc will just modify the plants.

If the infinitive were like:

to genetically enhance cannabis plants, which make them...

then which would refer to cannabis plants and not just plants. Pronouns always refer to noun and any associated adjectives.

You can further refer following article:

http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/infinitivephrase.htm

Hope it helps.
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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 03 Oct 2015, 03:44
X made the hormone, X had to remove..

the prob with C is passive form does not confirm that scientists did remove it, 'it had to be ....' could even be a general truth/fact. As the subj of the sentence is scientists, only D makes sense.

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo [#permalink]

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New post 07 Mar 2016, 09:58
A. scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, removing it painstakingly – a fragment
B. scientists had learned about making a synthetic growth hormone, they had to remove it painstakingly – 1. had learned was a later phenomenon, had to remove was the earlier phenomenon. Use of past perfect for the earlier is wrong. 2. ‘It’ refers to the synthetic hormone. One can’t remove a synthetic hormone from a body; it is only synthesized in a lab.

C. scientist learned how to synthesize the growth hormone, it had to be painstakingly removed – it promptly refers to the growth hormone (natural hormone and not synthetic.)
D. learning how to make a synthetic growth hormone, scientists had to remove it painstakingly – it refers to synthetic growth hormone—wrong
E. Learning how to synthesize the growth hormone, it have to be painstakingly removed by scientists— it have to be – is a typo? In any case, the modification is also wrong. Scientists should appear after the comma.

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Re: Before scientists learned how to make a synthetic growth hormone, remo   [#permalink] 07 Mar 2016, 09:58

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