Benefit of MBA for intl students in this market scenario

mmm that's an interesting question! I would like to say it in another way: Is there anyone who applied to top 15 BS, spent 100k on tuition fees, and couldn't find a decent job after graduation?

Negative answers are welcome

ROI is must, else no use of MBA abroad.

What are the visa rules for France (INSEAD) , UK (LBS) and US concerning MBA grads ? After graduation, how long is the visa extended for foreign students to search for jobs ? - 6 months / 1 year ?

The US is a mess - you get 3 months which goes into time-out if you do PT voluntary work. There are questions surrounding whether anyone ever records or checks this.

The European rules short term I don't know. Long term it is typically that an MBA from a top school gets you enough points on their visa system to get a work permit. This used to be the Highly Trained Migrant Worker Program in the UK, and I guess that the rules are close to those across Europe through the EU.

As an intl currently at HBS, here's my two cents on the job market:

In the US, still pretty horrible, not to mention you'll need H1-B sponsorship which turns off a lot of firms (ya they are not supposed to discriminate but let's be real). Finance used to be a big source of hiring for intls, but obviously the sector as a whole is still recovering (dont think about buyside shops in the US unless you've had prior banking/PE/HF experience in the states). Most of the intls in my section ended up working in their home country or HK/London. Consulting is interesting, I don't have #s for this industry as I'm not interested, but from what I saw competition is fierce (lot of people got interview invites, but turned down after 1st round).

So in a nutshell, job scene pretty ugly, very difficult even for domestic students to find suitable jobs, and even more so if you are an intl and have to overcome the visa barrier. If you are really desperate at a job interview, just tell them you are okay with using your OPT for 1 year and then getting shipped off to some office abroad.

The thing is, with other job markets offering very competitive pays (HK/London), there's no reason to go through this hassle for US job unless you think the experience is truly worth it.

Oh, I forgot to mention in my previous post that one of my intl section mates did get a summer gig at a bulge bracket (if this term even has any meaning anymore), so lets hope this trend continues....

From my convos with people in my school visits (Visited wharton, cbs, stan, haas, ucla, usc) the international scene this year is relatively better than last year or the year before. There is still obviously reluctance from big f500 companies and the crux of international hiring is either in small-mid size companies where you actively network and find your niche as well as IB/Consulting which have traditionally been the key.

I can say this much, even in bachelors recruiting, there was the same issues - you have to actively network a lot more as an international than a us citizen for the jobs and make that extra effort to push for a spot.

Not sure if it adds too much value, but the conversations said, jobs are still out there, but it's a lot harder. I heard of quite a few making it to Deloitte, some to salesforce.com and so-on. Some Big-Bank recruiting in the summer as well.

Anyone current want to add to this?

This all makes me think that it's a good time to go for an MBA. Job prospects were bad but seem like getting better day in day out. One can expect it to be better in 2013 unless we have a double-deep recession

This is not to freak anybody out and I am NOT an expert on this topic
BUT
When I talked to my Booth MBA relatives who are working in DC.
They said that the job market currently favours Locals and that it is currently competitive for others in F500 companies.

One thing that bothers me is that there is no guarentee that If I did my MBA even with good grades at a top 20 USA B School then I would get a placement, and also there is no significant grace period given after the study visa is completed.

This is something I need to think about.

I have a lot of cousins who are engineers and are working on-site in US. I heard that most of the extension requests for H1B are getting turned down. Even though MBA is a slightly different story, I cannot help but to think that US is probably getting a little xenophobic. In a country like US there is very close nexus between corporate and government. If government is averse to foreign workers, expect the corporate sector to be too. I am an Indian applicant to B-schools in US. I would suggest the Indian MBA prospects to be prepared to come back and seek better opportunities in India after MBA in US. I know a few people in India who have managed to land jobs >$100K in good companies using their MBA abroad. In simple terms, US as a job market for internationals is fading, but US as a prestigious education provider is still popular. If my Indian brethren are not happy comin back to India after a big ticket MBA I suggest them to consider South East Asia or Middle East. I have run a business in Dubai and I can tell you it is the place to earn and save if you have the courage and mindset. Salaries for MBAs are around $150K and expenditure wont be more than 50%-60% of it. If you dont like the climate there just spend 2 years to recover your loan and then roam the world for job. I think we "Internationals" should change our mindset. It is no more US MBA-> H1B -> Greencard for us. If your desperately want a Greencard, earn and invest $5 million in US and get through investor route that way you can probably employ a H/S/W MBA

siva, thanks for your insight.

Respectfully, I would disagree that Indians can land a 100K job in say mumbai or delhi, it is possible but not on a wide scale.

Dubai, yes I think one needs courage because I heard cases of even senior employees mistreated by their employers so thats a no no for me. I do have international friends and by no way i am targetting anyone. Also, I may be wrong because it is only what I heard from other senior employees.

Its not entirely about getting a greencard I would say, because I dont have any intention of wanting a green card and I find it insulting you generalize everyone in that bracket. the international schools like berkley and columbia offer you a international perspective, and I do disagree that Indians only apply for a green card.

I appreciate your insights and by no way I am againist your opinions, just putting my thoughts.

Also, I need to say this, I find Business week to be a faulty magazine, because it prints rubbish about application numbers reducing and stuff.

Hi BlueRobin,
Thanks for your post. I never generalized anything. Neither did I say that Indians only go for Greencard. I am just speaking about people who think that getting an MBA is a one-way ticket to the US. I strongly feel that it is important for applicants from countries like India to be fluid with their plans and cautious with their expectations. Imagine a family man aged 31 stranded without an American job, with 100K debt after 2 years if he had not prepared mentally for it.
Yes Dubai is rough, that is why I said "courage". Infact it is you who is rejecting Dubai by generalizing the experience of some of your friends. Infact each one of the large firms from Wall Street is there in DIFC.
I dont know why u r considering a "wide scale"! Of course we cannot expect someone joining an organization in a C-class town to get 100K. All that I want to say is US MBA is not equal to US job. But life doesnt end there. US MBA can land us gr8 jobs elsewhere. I think your point is similar. On a side note, I live in Mumbai and find it obscene the co-existence of $100K people and absolute poor. Anyway tats just social ugliness and irrelevant here.

Hey Siva,

Thanks for taking it easy, I know you were highlighting your opinions and it is informative for all of us out there who can benefit from your experience.

Please by all means, lets keep posting, so that we can make each other aware.

Sivaavis,

I think you're missing the point here.

Based on my interaction with current students and recent alumni, a lot of them chose schools based on where they wanted to work after B school. If somebody wanted to work on the US West Coast, they applied to Stanford, UCLA and Haas. For the East Coast, schools in NY, Boston. However, international applicants who have not worked or lived in the US tend to or should be more realistic about the schools they apply to since the competition to get into these schools is fierce. So, if somebody wants to work in South East Asia or Middle East, it would probably make more sense to apply to schools in those parts of the world.

You talked about courage and fortitude required to "MAKE IT" in Dubai as if its the toughest place to do business in the world. Entrepreneurship is more risky than working for some big firm no matter what the location. I wouldn't consider Dubai any different from Singapore and HK since these are regional powerhouses and almost all consulting and finance companies will have a presence there. There are subtle differences between these cities but I think you're leaning towards Dubai since you've lived there.

I would strongly contest your statement that it is possible to land a job that pays 100K US$ in India after an MBA from a US B-school. I doubt if any recruiter would pay that kind of money to somebody in his/her late 20s or early 30's unless he/she had an out-of-the-world resume and stellar achievements. Would you happen to know any firms who recruit B school students in the US and pay that kind of money for them to return to India? If yes, then I doubt the MBA was a deal-clincher. It may have aided such an offer but it wouldn't have made the deal for him/her. An MBA does not turn you into a rock star overnight.

After reading your statement about Greencards, I do get the impression that you concluded that all Indians who go to US B-schools go there with the ulterior motive of getting a greencard. I would say that it is definitely not the case and its insulting to those who go there for other reasons. If you wish to work in the US after B school, you need your employer to sponsor your H1 Visa for you. Consulting and finance companies have been willing to do that for years. However, marketing and General management positions may not have that advantage. But it depends on the recruiter. I have seen one example of an international student who was accepted to the Rotational Leadership Development Program of a manufacturing company. How did this happen? The recruiter sensed her enthusiasm and passion for the role and decided to sponsor her work visa anyways. This coming from a company which recruits in very small numbers. So, it depends on what you want to do, how kicked up you are about it and how effectively you put across your motivation and passion to the recruiter.

Good luck for your apps!!

Cheers!

One gotta take the marketing blurb from BSchools with a pinch of salt and recruiting for internationals is a different beast. I was aghast that some BSchools career office have only 1-3 max covering international job prospects. Complaints that officers know little about overseas job markets in Europe, Gulf States and Asia. Most jobs for internationals tend to be with consulting/banking. Few industry, CPG or SME jobs availaible. I have spoken to internationals on campus and they find it tough to land US jobs. Some will take up jobs at home at lower salaries and payback of tuition looks tough. Most internationals landed jobs through networking rather structured career office recruitment. Heard some serious complaints of poor service from career office at some BSchools.

Having lived in the Middle East most of my life, I would venture to say that majority of the high paying, MBA type jobs in the Middle East are usually reserved for local candidates or experienced international professionals who have an MBA from a world renowned school. Since a lot of the brand name schools are US schools or European schools, it makes better business sense for people to study there in order to get that high paying job. If there were comparable schools in the Middle East, people from the Middle East wouldn't spend all the time and effort to go and study in US or European schools.

I believe, as an international applicant, if one has the opportunity to study in a top business school, one should go for it. You may or may not get a job in a high paying job market due to visa regulations or other restrictions, but the experience and the network that one would have gained studying there along with the brand value of the school will definetly pay dividends in the long run.

Any one has any inputs if/how this scenario differs for a H1B to go back to b-school, and use the rest of the H1B during MBA recruiting? In other words, any advantage for an international already on H1B (say like he uses 3-4 years of it) to get a desired job post-MBA over someone that came to US as a student?