Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre : Sentence Correction (EA only)

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thangvietname

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

18 May 2016, 01:14

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thouch i choose e, i think both c and e are correct.

we need full explanation of c because this is not official.

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thangvietname

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

05 Jun 2016, 02:59

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DmitryFarber wrote:

thangvietnam MeghaP

Both of your concerns touch on the same issue. The idea is that we are comparing the English and French. Both "that considered" in choice A and "considering" in choice C create essential noun modifiers that change the noun in question from just to French to a particular subset of the French: those who considered their colonies part of France itself.

Consider the differences among these sentences:
Unlike humans breathing air, fish extract oxygen from the water.
Unlike humans who breathe air, fish extract oxygen from the water.
Unlike humans, who breathe air, fish extract oxygen from the water.

In the first two examples, we narrow down humans to a subset: those who breathe air. This is silly, since of course all humans breathe air. We want to compare fish to all humans. Only the third sentence, which uses commas to set off its non-essential modifier (as I am doing right now), correctly compares humans (as opposed to a subset of humans) to fish.

this is great explanation
but. on gmat official question, we never meet a question which test difference between restricted and non restricted ralative clause.

so, this question is out of scope gmat test?

is that right?

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

28 Oct 2020, 22:43

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SALAKSHYA
Sure, A would work grammatically if it ended in "the French, who considered." It wouldn't have the nice parallelism of E (whereas the French did X, the English did Y), but it wouldn't be flawed.

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

26 Apr 2016, 11:22

mayankgupta01 wrote:

Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the French that considered their colonies part of France itself, the English regarded their territories abroad as separate entities.

Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the French that considered
Similar to England, France was a major colonial power, and whereas the French considered
England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the French considering
Like England, France was a major colonial power too, and whereas the French consider
Like England, France was a major colonial power, but whereas the French considered

Answer will be (E) because it uses correct idiomatic form -

1. Like x , y

2. Consider x, y

Further (E) has maintains parallelism

Like England, France was a major colonial power, but whereas the French considered their colonies part of France itself, the English regarded their territories abroad as separate entities.

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

17 May 2016, 08:55

DmitryFarber wrote:

We need the word "but" to contrast the first part of the sentence (which describes a similarity) with the second part (which describes a difference). B and D are out.

A is wrong because we don't want to compare the English to "the French that considered their colonies part of France itself." We want to compare the English to the French. If we changed "that" to "who," and used a comma to separate, we would have a non-essential modifier and the sentence would be just fine. (" . . . but unlike the French, who considered . . . itself, the English . . . )

C is out because we don't want to compare the English to "the French considering . . . " Again, this kind of essential, or restrictive modifier, adds to the noun to make a more specific comparison. For instance, if I say "People considering an mba should study for the GMAT," I'm talking only about people who are considering an mba, not people in general.

That leaves E, which is the only choice that compares the countries correctly and contrasts the two clauses with "but."

I eliminated A just because i felt 'who' should be used to describe French (people) and 'that' here is incorrect. Also 'that' acts as a restrictive clause which does not make sense here. - is this reasoning correct?

Can you please also explain how using 'that' shifts the comparison from between 'French and English' to between 'English to "the French that considered their colonies part of France"'?

Thank you.!

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

24 May 2016, 01:13

DmitryFarber wrote:

thangvietnam MeghaP

Both of your concerns touch on the same issue. The idea is that we are comparing the English and French. Both "that considered" in choice A and "considering" in choice C create essential noun modifiers that change the noun in question from just to French to a particular subset of the French: those who considered their colonies part of France itself.

Consider the differences among these sentences:
Unlike humans breathing air, fish extract oxygen from the water.
Unlike humans who breathe air, fish extract oxygen from the water.
Unlike humans, who breathe air, fish extract oxygen from the water.

In the first two examples, we narrow down humans to a subset: those who breathe air. This is silly, since of course all humans breathe air. We want to compare fish to all humans. Only the third sentence, which uses commas to set off its non-essential modifier (as I am doing right now), correctly compares humans (as opposed to a subset of humans) to fish.

Crystal clear. Thank you for the great explanation.!

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

18 Jun 2016, 06:21

DmitryFarber wrote:

We need the word "but" to contrast the first part of the sentence (which describes a similarity) with the second part (which describes a difference). B and D are out.

A is wrong because we don't want to compare the English to "the French that considered their colonies part of France itself." We want to compare the English to the French. If we changed "that" to "who," and used a comma to separate, we would have a non-essential modifier and the sentence would be just fine. (" . . . but unlike the French, who considered . . . itself, the English . . . )

C is out because we don't want to compare the English to "the French considering . . . " Again, this kind of essential, or restrictive modifier, adds to the noun to make a more specific comparison. For instance, if I say "People considering an mba should study for the GMAT," I'm talking only about people who are considering an mba, not people in general.

That leaves E, which is the only choice that compares the countries correctly and contrasts the two clauses with "but."

Sir,
In answer choice A, French means french people,and as GMAT doesn't allow "that" referring to people,can we eliminate A on that basis?

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

19 Jun 2016, 14:35

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techiesam wrote:

DmitryFarber wrote:

We need the word "but" to contrast the first part of the sentence (which describes a similarity) with the second part (which describes a difference). B and D are out.

A is wrong because we don't want to compare the English to "the French that considered their colonies part of France itself." We want to compare the English to the French. If we changed "that" to "who," and used a comma to separate, we would have a non-essential modifier and the sentence would be just fine. (" . . . but unlike the French, who considered . . . itself, the English . . . )

C is out because we don't want to compare the English to "the French considering . . . " Again, this kind of essential, or restrictive modifier, adds to the noun to make a more specific comparison. For instance, if I say "People considering an mba should study for the GMAT," I'm talking only about people who are considering an mba, not people in general.

That leaves E, which is the only choice that compares the countries correctly and contrasts the two clauses with "but."

Sir,
In answer choice A, French means french people,and as GMAT doesn't allow "that" referring to people,can we eliminate A on that basis?

Yes, that would be a valid reason for eliminating A.

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

21 Jun 2016, 09:48

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Agreed on A. "That" should not modify people.

@thanvietnam, it's true that the GMAT doesn't use the essential/non-essential distinction often, but they have certainly tested it on occasion. In general, it would be very hard to establish that something is never tested.

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

11 Mar 2019, 09:08

Only E has the right idiomatic form (Like X Y) and maintains //ism. It is the right answer.

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thangvietnam

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

01 Sep 2019, 02:35

I think that
"who" is essential modifier. we do not use "that" for person
"comma+who" is non essential modifier
"that" is essential modifier
"comma+which" is non essential modifier.

is that right? pls, confirm. thank you for great explanation of experts.

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

22 Oct 2020, 03:23

DmitryFarber wrote:

thangvietnam MeghaP

Both of your concerns touch on the same issue. The idea is that we are comparing the English and French. Both "that considered" in choice A and "considering" in choice C create essential noun modifiers that change the noun in question from just to French to a particular subset of the French: those who considered their colonies part of France itself.

Consider the differences among these sentences:
Unlike humans breathing air, fish extract oxygen from the water.
Unlike humans who breathe air, fish extract oxygen from the water.
Unlike humans, who breathe air, fish extract oxygen from the water.

In the first two examples, we narrow down humans to a subset: those who breathe air. This is silly, since of course all humans breathe air. We want to compare fish to all humans. Only the third sentence, which uses commas to set off its non-essential modifier (as I am doing right now), correctly compares humans (as opposed to a subset of humans) to fish.

can this mean that if nonrestrictive modifier were used instead of restrictive modifier (that in this case) , option A would have been correct

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

06 Dec 2020, 01:13

DmitryFarber wrote:

We need the word "but" to contrast the first part of the sentence (which describes a similarity) with the second part (which describes a difference). B and D are out.

A is wrong because we don't want to compare the English to "the French that considered their colonies part of France itself." We want to compare the English to the French. If we changed "that" to "who," and used a comma to separate, we would have a non-essential modifier and the sentence would be just fine. (" . . . but unlike the French, who considered . . . itself, the English . . . )

C is out because we don't want to compare the English to "the French considering . . . " Again, this kind of essential, or restrictive modifier, adds to the noun to make a more specific comparison. For instance, if I say "People considering an mba should study for the GMAT," I'm talking only about people who are considering an mba, not people in general.

That leaves E, which is the only choice that compares the countries correctly and contrasts the two clauses with "but."

Hi DmitryFarber,

Thanks for your inputs.

Its slightly late to post a query, still...

Except in option A, the subordinate clause in none of the options starting with "but" form an independent clause, thus creating a comma splice error. Please let me know if I am correct in my observation. Though I agree that option A changes the intended meaning as u have explained, still I had to go ahead with A as none of the other options were correct grammatically.

Please let me know your take on this.

Thanks in advance.
VJ

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

30 Dec 2021, 04:27

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Re: Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre [#permalink]

30 Dec 2021, 04:27

GMAT Sentence Correction (EA only) Questions

Both England and France were major colonial powers, but unlike the Fre