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# Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves

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Manager
Joined: 17 Sep 2016
Posts: 198

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Re: Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves [#permalink]

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31 Jan 2017, 00:01
mikemcgarry wrote:
zoezhuyan wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry,

Sorry for my ambiguous sentence.
Sorry for my late reply because I was busy with preparation for CNY (Chinese New Year )
My former intended that arrival it's exception is replaced with intended effect, which meansprotect the engender marine species.

Please let my clarify my question.
First, I want to cite 2 scenarios :
#1 /
A: Have you checked C's plan?
B: Yes, I have done it last Sunday.
A: What do you think of the plan's intended effect ?
B: Bla bla bla..

#2/
A: What do you think of the plan's intended effect ?
B: Bla bla bla..

Scenario #1, there is a statement that B has read the plan.
Scenario #2, there is an assumption that B has read the plan.

So, my reason is if at the beginning, A raised a question that What do you think of the plan's intended effect , then, A must based on the assumption that B has read the plan.
Like this reason, if the argument raised a question about intended effect, then I based on the assumption that the commercial fishers will use the new nets.

Therefore, I will eliminate answer if it discuss whether the commercial fishers will use new nets or not.
Here, answer C intends to discuss whether commercial fishers will use new ones or not.
That's my cross off - reasoning.

Have a nice day
>_~

Dear zoezhuyan,

Happy new year, my friend! Happy Year of the Rooster! I'm happy to respond.

Hi mikemcgarry, Thank you so much.

mikemcgarry wrote:
Unfortunately, your question is still hard to follow. One problem concerns the confusing use of letters. Normally, I would think that (A), (B), and (C) would refer to the answer choices in this question. Instead, I think what you have done is create an imaginary dialogue and given the characters these letter names. Now, an imaginary dialogue to illustrate a point is fine, but it's very confusing to use the same letters for characters as for answer choices. A dialogue among characters P, Q, and R would be perfectly fine.

Thanks Mike, you mentioned me a logical flaw I made -- term shift.
I haven't realized it until read yours response.
Sometimes I can realize this kind of flaw, sometime can't.
I made the flaw this time, and I think I will try to be excellent and pay more attention to avoid it again.

I used letters, A ,b and C , because I was afraid I would offended unintendedly against people,
I did mean people A and people B in the dialog , rather than the characters of answer choices

I have not been carefully thought out.
sorry this dictation confused you.

mikemcgarry wrote:

Even assuming that the letter refer to characters in the dialogue, and not answer choices, what you are asking is still unusual. If I understand your question correct, I would say that the the distinction you are drawing doesn't matter.

Suppose I execute Plan J, with the intention that, say, more money goes to School Q. Then, suppose I leave the country or somehow never hear about School Q again. Now, zoezhuyan comes along and enacts Plan K, which happens to support Plan J. As a result of zoezhuyan enacting Plan K, it happens that School Q gets all the money it needs. In this scenario, even though I am totally out of the picture, my intended effect was still realized. It doesn't matter at all whether I am present or aware for my intended effect to be realized. Also, it doesn't matter whether zoezhuyan had the same intention. Maybe zoezhuyan didn't know a single thing about School Q or Plan J and simply was enacting Plan K for some other unrelated reason altogether. Even if it were "by accident" that School Q wound up getting money, an unintended consequence that was off everyone's radar, even then, it is still true that my intended effect was realized.

Mike

Hi Mike,
above quote, can I interpret this session as "direct relationship", I mean it is one event impact directly on the other event . such as :
Because of thirst , so I need a cup of plain water to drink. -- direct relationship between thirst and need a cup of plant water .

review my imaged dialog,
you said "Even assuming that the letter refer to characters in the dialogue, and not answer choices, what you are asking is still unusual",Do you mean it is not a direct relationship ?

I cited dialogs to illustrate that if raised a question about the intended effect of a plan (only one plan, I found there are 2 plans in your scenario ), then I will assume the plan will be implemented.

(BTW, I edited some, and not use the letters same as the characters of answer choices)
#1 /
Mike: Have you checked Charlie's plan?
Zoe: Yes.

Mike: What do you think of the plan's intended effect ?
Zoe: it will be more successful if Charlie provides new material won't be harmful to healthy

#2/
Mike: What do you think of the intended effect of Charlie's plan?
Zoe: it will be more successful if he provides new material won't be harmful to healthy

Scenario #1, there is a statement that Zoe has checked the plan. as the orange words in the dialog
Scenario #2, there is an assumption that Zoe has checked the plan. this assumption does no be stated.

even though plan J and plan K are same side for getting more money to school Q ,and school Q got money as the result of plan K, it is still true that the intended effect of plan K was realized.
In short, we cannot say the intended effect was realized because of enacting plan J, in fact, because of enacting plan K.
Did I get correct ?

otherwise, I realized that here are two plans -plan J and plan K -- which both has the same purpose. and only plan K was enacted by zoezhuyan .

I am curious, if there is only plan K, and someone else ,except mikemcgarry and zoezhuyan, estimates the intended effect of plan K , does it mean that someone assumes the plan K will be implemented , rather than checks whether the plan will be enacted.

Review this question,

the stem : Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the claim that use of the new nets will have the intended effects?

the argument proposes a plan about using new nets,
the stem needs us find one choice that can support the intended effect of the plan using new nets, protecting the endanger marine species.
IMO, I don't need to check whether the commercial fishers will use the new nets or not.
While I will assume that the commercial fishers will use the new nets,
thus, I will cross off any answer discussing whether use new nets or not.

Therefore, I cross off C, which discuss whether commercial fishers will use or not because of the price.

Did I clearly describe my questions?
if any problem, please tell me

appreciate your explanations and point out my faults.

have a nice day
>_~

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Re: Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves [#permalink]

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31 Jan 2017, 16:24
Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you, my friend? It seems you have gone to tremendous lengths to construct an analysis, and unfortunately, it's all a little off the mark.

You see, often in a GMAT CR question, it's hard to make a simple "recipe" for what you can and can't ignore.

Think about what we know and don't know by the end of the prompt.
What we know:
1) We know the environmental advocates want to save fish not targeted by commercial fishing.
2) Toward that end, they have come up with a new kind of net, that appears to be designed specifically for what the commercial fishermen want to catch.
3)The environmental advocates want a solution that saves the fish but doesn't interrupt the business of fishing.
What we don't know:
1) Do these nets really work as they are intended?
2) Do we know that these new nets are going to get used?

Those are concerns that the prompt leaves open. Anything that strengthens one of these would be helpful?

The problem with (C) is not the topic itself, but that it works in the wrong direction. If the new nets were significantly cheaper than the previous nets, we would have no doubt that the fishermen would use them. This would be a strengthener, though not the strongest strengthener. Instead, (C) goes in the opposite direction: the new nets are slightly more expensive than the old nets: that's no a huge impediment, but by itself it doesn't suggest a run on the market. By itself, it doesn't suggest the widespread use of the nets.

That's the most compelling reason to reject (C).

Does all this make sense?
Mike
_________________

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Magoosh Test Prep

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire. — William Butler Yeats (1865 – 1939)

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Re: Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves [#permalink]

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01 Feb 2017, 03:46
When we select option A.)
"The pheromones that would most attract the food species sought by commercial fishers indicate the presence of a dangerous threat to most of the endangered marine species."

Are we not assuming that the endangered marine species react to the pheromones. The passage clearly specifies that the pheromones are for the commercially sought after fish, however the passage does not specify anything how the endangered marine species react to these pheromones.

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Re: Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves [#permalink]

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01 Feb 2017, 11:39
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Expert's post
nikhilkayath wrote:
When we select option A.)
"The pheromones that would most attract the food species sought by commercial fishers indicate the presence of a dangerous threat to most of the endangered marine species."

Are we not assuming that the endangered marine species react to the pheromones. The passage clearly specifies that the pheromones are for the commercially sought after fish, however the passage does not specify anything how the endangered marine species react to these pheromones.

Dear nikhilkayath,

I'm happy to respond.

My friend, think about the prompt question:
Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the claim that use of the new nets will have the intended effects?
This is a relatively standard prompt. In order to evaluate any answer choice, we have to assume that it is completely true, just as the evidence in the prompt argument is.

Thus, when we consider (A) as a possible answer choice, as an essential part of that exercise we have to assume that (A) is completely true. Thus, we know how the "endangered marine species" would react, and this reaction significantly strengthens the argument.

This question is a strengthen the argument question, and the prompt explicitly tells us that we have to assume that each answer choice is true. By contrast, in other CR questions types, such as an inference question, our job is to figure out whether each answer choice is true. On the different kinds of CR questions, are job is very different, and a student inevitably will get the question wrong if the student is trying to perform one task when another is demanded. It's very important to know and be clear on the different CR tasks.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves [#permalink]

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03 Feb 2017, 23:09
mikemcgarry wrote:
Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you, my friend? It seems you have gone to tremendous lengths to construct an analysis, and unfortunately, it's all a little off the mark.

You see, often in a GMAT CR question, it's hard to make a simple "recipe" for what you can and can't ignore.

Think about what we know and don't know by the end of the prompt.
What we know:
1) We know the environmental advocates want to save fish not targeted by commercial fishing.
2) Toward that end, they have come up with a new kind of net, that appears to be designed specifically for what the commercial fishermen want to catch.
3)The environmental advocates want a solution that saves the fish but doesn't interrupt the business of fishing.
What we don't know:
1) Do these nets really work as they are intended?
2) Do we know that these new nets are going to get used?

Those are concerns that the prompt leaves open. Anything that strengthens one of these would be helpful?

The problem with (C) is not the topic itself, but that it works in the wrong direction. If the new nets were significantly cheaper than the previous nets, we would have no doubt that the fishermen would use them. This would be a strengthener, though not the strongest strengthener. Instead, (C) goes in the opposite direction: the new nets are slightly more expensive than the old nets: that's no a huge impediment, but by itself it doesn't suggest a run on the market. By itself, it doesn't suggest the widespread use of the nets.

That's the most compelling reason to reject (C).

Does all this make sense?
Mike

thanks so much mikemcgarry,

I got it.

have a nice day
>_~

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Re: Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves [#permalink]

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28 Jun 2017, 00:50
E talks about fishers in rivers. => C,D,E are out of scope
B is wrong because endangered species can be small.
A is left.
Lesson: support question can be no different from a strengthen question.

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28 Jun 2017, 02:51
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!
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Re: Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves [#permalink]

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30 Oct 2017, 02:37
For me "threat" in A is ambiguous and makes people think that the endangered species would ended up killed because of the use of pheromones on the net. I think that this answer choice should be rephrased.

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Re: Bottom trawling is a type of deep-sea fishing that involves   [#permalink] 30 Oct 2017, 02:37

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