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Current Student
Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 573
Location: United States
Schools: Ross '16 (M)
Followers: 9

Kudos [?]: 144 [0], given: 28

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18 Nov 2012, 06:24
codytravers wrote:
Maybe it's just me but it seems like Columbia has been slipping. Big drops in applications, bad experiences with current students, etc. That was one school I never planned on applying to.

Posted from my mobile device

Manager
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 107
Location: Guatemala
Concentration: General Management, Strategy
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 31 [1] , given: 50

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18 Nov 2012, 07:50
1
KUDOS
mappleby wrote:
I don't believe for a minute that given the choice between Columbia and Ross, Tepper, Haas, Johnson or Fuqua anybody would turn down admission to Columbia. None of these are bad programs but nobody realistically believes Michigan is a better MBA than Columbia.

I disagree. This is exactly why rankings for me are worthless beyond given you a sense which are thr top 25-50 schools in no particular order.

Each and every applicant must sit down and consider what they want out of their mba, where they want to study, what teaching method is better for them and post mba goals and then match that to the diff. Programs.

I agree if u are an applicant who wants to work in finance, wants to live in nyc, doesnt mind a big class, wants to live abroad post-mba, it would surely indicate he or she would choose columbia.

If its an applicant who wants to go into consulting, wants a general management program, a tight knit community, would prefer to stay in the mid west afterwards. If the applicant did a good research i would bet he or she would pick michigan.

Thats why i think rankings are useless beyond a very basic initial starting point. Ross and Columbia are so different they can hardly be compared and its unfair to rank one over the other.

Out of the mentioned schools, in my preference list tepper is the only school lower than columbia.

Rankings are so overrated. They are ranked on the bottom of my decision factors rankings LOL

Posted from my mobile device
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Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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18 Nov 2012, 10:26
Correct me if i am mistaken...
1. BusinessWeek had a 30% response rate in their employer polls (mostly to HR and NOT line managers or VPs of companies).
2. They had a 40% response rate in their student polls...
3. These are subjective polls... If all of us were presented a questionaire to rank Nike, Reebok, etc. as the best sports apparel... what would we do? Now if we get the same poll every week... how different will our responses be?

Given the statistically small response (%responded), subjectivity in such a poll, and other factors... BusinessWeek is a good starting point, but not a good indicator to brand value or recruitment or any other parameters that actually matter.... E.g. Yale had a 90% employed by graduation, vs Fuqua at 80%... The employers lists "Goldman Sachs" which is not in Fuqua... So a huge chunk of salt is required....

Best ranking ever is to rank median or average salary out of B-School. Period. Sure many non-profits drop out, but that is to be understood by the applicant.

Even Forbes has the ROI thing... if a person was working in McDonalds with a $25000 salary, and then gets a$50,000 job, it is awesome ROI... but for me all that matters objectively is the median or average salary....
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18 Nov 2012, 10:28
Therefore look at this:

which places Yale at 10... rightly placed...
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18 Nov 2012, 11:31
Getting an MBA is a 100,000 + investment, applicants put so much emphasis on rankings and hardly a handful even take a look at how they work, the strengths and weaknesses of each and the variables involved.

I cringe when I read someone saying X is better than A because BW says so, or USNews or Forbes.

Student satisfaction is a biggie on some of these rankings - some top schools get penalized because their students arrive with higher expectations, and although they end up getting job offers with higher starting salaries, more prestigious companies come to interview to campus and have a higher % of job placement at graduation.. these schools still receive lower marks because some students at not such top notch schools went with lower expectations and were pleasantly surprised with the job they ended up getting.

Recruits assessment is also a biggie, some smaller programs / located in isolated towns get penalized. These school might not be on top of mind for some companies. Being in a a smaller class with more interaction with professors and having the opportunity to focus more on your studies could mean that you will be much better prepared to go out into the job market and with some self initiative you can land an awesome job in a company that doesn't recruit on campus. Some companies simply don't go out of the way to an isolated school with a small class to recruit there, although they might have amazing students, which doesn't mean they wouldn't hire them if they decide to make the trek to interview in NYC/Boston.

As the previous poster mentioned - starting salary could be the best indicator - if you were to choose one of all factors. Since business school use one common denominator to compare us - the GMAT - I use starting salary, but as you know its a "holistic" approach, so other factors come into play.
Senior Manager
Status: Yale! (whipped and bound)
Joined: 02 May 2012
Posts: 406
Location: United States (CA)
Concentration: Nonprofit
GMAT 1: 730 Q48 V42
GPA: 3.41
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Kudos [?]: 139 [0], given: 78

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19 Nov 2012, 11:33
FrozenTongue wrote:
Best ranking ever is to rank median or average salary out of B-School. Period. Sure many non-profits drop out, but that is to be understood by the applicant.

Even Forbes has the ROI thing... if a person was working in McDonalds with a $25000 salary, and then gets a$50,000 job, it is awesome ROI... but for me all that matters objectively is the median or average salary....

I agree that we are all looking at a return on investment, but as a non-profit applicant I'm not measuring my growth by the salary jump. I'm not sure what percentage of people see money as their number what motivator, but I'm guessing it's quite low. It's obviously a perk for moving up in the career leader and hopefully more money also translates to more interesting jobs, but that's certainly not a guarantee.

For me all that matters is that my expectations are met. I expect to work alongside really bright students, have incredibly engaging professors, and graduate with tons of doors open to me.

Now, I don't think a rating should just be a "customer satisfaction" survey (students' or employers' for that matter), but I do think that GMAT and GPA are placeholders for the intellectual strength of a class. So these elements provide valuable information. They also add credibility to the prestige, which in turn makes the students more attractive to employers.

The best ranking ever for me is one that is almost completely transparent, which allows you to sort by different metrics. So if salary is my number one, I'll sort the data that way. Data--it's all in how you use it!
_________________

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Yale School of Management MBA Candidate, 2015.

Senior Manager
Affiliations: CFA
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 384
Location: United States (NY)
Schools: Columbia - Class of 2013
GMAT 1: 710 Q45 V43
GMAT 2: 760 Q49 V45
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26 Nov 2012, 01:39
Ward2012 wrote:
codytravers wrote:
Maybe it's just me but it seems like Columbia has been slipping. Big drops in applications, bad experiences with current students, etc. That was one school I never planned on applying to.

Posted from my mobile device

Essaysnark's comments seemed to be entirely around the application process and interaction with adcoms and almost nothing to do with the school itself once you're attending. I found this quite confusing and not really enlightening from the perspective of a current student. Are graduating MBAs filling out BW surveys really complaining about the admissions process from 3 years ago? I doubt it.

We've had town halls with the Dean trying to address some of the issues. That said, I'm a bit bewildered at how we can be doing so poorly on student satisfaction.
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Schools: Stanford(interview, ding), Harvard( ACCEPTED! )
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26 Nov 2012, 05:01
The rankings are silly. If you just ask random employers or students their opinion of a school, they will hold biases for many reasons (alumni, personal rejection, etc). I'm sure deutsche bank is upset that only 10% of harvard or stanford grads accept their offer, but that doesn't mean they are lower ranked schools.

The only thing most perspectives applicants really care about are the admission rates, the yields, starting salary, and career earnings of alumni. Any ranking that doesn't start off with some permutation of stanford, harvard, and wharton is clearly flawed.
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Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 9
Concentration: Sustainability, Strategy
GPA: 3.88
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29 Nov 2012, 18:43
highwyre237 wrote:
Has anyone spent time on the individual school pages, I love this new layout. Great free resource for information on schools IMO

I saw the new individual pages too. If you go on http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/rankings, Businessweek offers the school, what number it ranked at this year, the cost, and the total students per program. This new layout leads you to the individual pages for each ranked school. I have to agree, it's a great free resource for information on these schools.

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