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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen

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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jun 2016, 15:07
banerjee06 wrote:
Hi Experts,
Here is a trouble I am facing with this questions. Although the answer can be derived very quickly through other splits, my questions is regarding the usage of verb-ed modifiers.
In a separate post on gmatclub by e-gmat it said two things:
1. verb-ed modifies preceding noun
2. if the subject of the sentence is the doer of the action it is not a verb-ed modifier

if i apply those two rules to this problem I get earned is not a modifier since JC the pilot earned them and she is the subject.
Also, even if we considered earned a modifier it is modifying the records.
So as far as my understanding goes if i were to pick the options basis of modifiers -ing vs -ed i would have taken earning instead of earned, and that as the answer key suggests would have been incorrect. What am I missing here??

Tagging the experts I know:sayantanc2k, mikemcgarry, egmat, carcass


First..... "earned" is definitely a modifier here. The past participle modifier "earned" is not referring to JC, but to "speed records", as you have already recognised. JC was not earned, but the speed records were earned.

Second.... I suppose, e-gmat meant that ".... it is not a verb-ed modifier( of the subject) ", in which case I do not see any contradiction. If the subject of the sentence is the doer of the action, it (verb-ed) can be a modifier, but not of the subject.

(nonetheless the present participle modifier "earning" refers to JC)
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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jun 2016, 15:15
HKD1710 wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
jjindal wrote:
Hi, Just wanted to understand the usage of Verb-ing modifier here. Had the choice 'C' been correct if the relative modifier for time was 'when'? Also you mentioned that earning here modifies the subject, doesn't Verb-ing modifier correct the entire clause when used with a comma?


The present participle modifier may refer to either the whole clause or the subject of the preceding clause.

Moreover a present participle modifier in such cases is used to convey either of the following meanings:

1. The preceding clause has been possible by doing something. e.g. Federer won Wimbledon, defeating Nadal. (refers to the subject of preceding clause)
2. The preceding clause results in something. e.g. Federer won Wimbledon, spreading a wave of joy among his fans. (refers to the whole clause)

Neither of the above two usages fit to justify the use of present participle "earning" in option C:
1. JC held 17 records by earning them. ...Wrong.
2. JC held 17 records, causing her to earn them... Wrong.



Do you mean that use of "earning" is wrong in choice C and B. (I am ignoring the other errors in the sentence). till now i understood what e-gmat's explanation mentioned above. here is that piece:

"In this sentence the modifier ‘earning’ modifies the preceding clause. It provides us additional information about the clause. Also, this modifier makes sense with the subject of the clause since Jacqueline Cochran was the one who earned these records. So, this modifier is correctly used in the context of this sentence. "

#1. e-gmat says "earning" provides additional information and this usage is correct.
#2. You are saying if verb-ing modifier is not aligned with the two usage you mentioned then it's wrong (hope i understood correctly).

Now i am confused. . both are expert's opinions and till now i believed #2 is correct. Please clear the doubt sayantanc2k and egmat.


Yes, in my view, the use of present participle "earning" is wrong in options B and C because of the reason stated in my previous post. However please note that I mentioned that "a present participle modifier in such cases is used....". What I mean by "in such cases" is "in cases when the present partciple is used to modify a clause".

In addition, a present participle modifier can be used to modify a noun as well, in which case it is used as an adjective. example:
Waking to the buzz of the alarm clock, Freddie cursed the arrival of another Monday.
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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 01:12
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banerjee06 wrote:
Hi Experts,
Here is a trouble I am facing with this questions. Although the answer can be derived very quickly through other splits, my questions is regarding the usage of verb-ed modifiers.
In a separate post on gmatclub by e-gmat it said two things:
1. verb-ed modifies preceding noun
2. if the subject of the sentence is the doer of the action it is not a verb-ed modifier

if i apply those two rules to this problem I get earned is not a modifier since JC the pilot earned them and she is the subject.
Also, even if we considered earned a modifier it is modifying the records.
So as far as my understanding goes if i were to pick the options basis of modifiers -ing vs -ed i would have taken earning instead of earned, and that as the answer key suggests would have been incorrect. What am I missing here??

Tagging the experts I know:sayantanc2k, mikemcgarry, egmat, carcass


Responding to a PM......
"Now my question is I used the following rules to identify whether the -ed form is a verb or a verb-ed modifier:
1. The subject should not be the doer of the verb-ed action (I read it from a separate post by e-gmat).

Kindly advise if this rule is the correct one to go by? If not what should I use as a rule to understand if the verb-ed form is a modifier or not."

The rule is correct as long as it is meant that the verb-ed modifier does not refer to the subject. A verb-ed structure can STILL be a modifier if the subject is the doer of the action, but in this case the verb-ed modifier would refer to not the subject, but some other noun in the sentence.

I would say, the folowing method is intuitive for some (for me as well) to identify whether verb-ed construction is a verb or a past participle:

1. Verb-ed structure has only two uses: Verb (simple past), Past participle.
2. FIRST task is to identify the main verb of the sentence. (in general, this is an excellent practice to solve SC questions, not just to identify the verb-ed modifier)
3. If it is not found, then the verb-ed could be the main verb.
4. If it is found, then too the verb-ed could be a second main verb , if it is added with a conjunction "and" / "but".
5. If a main verb is found and the verb-ed construction is NOT added by a conjunction, then it could be a participle.

The above is not as complicated as it may appear - the process is intuitive and naturally occurs while analysing - let us take option E in the question:

What is the main verb? "held"
Can "earned" be a second main verb? No, since there is no conjunction. Thus "earned" is a past participle.

Nonetheless as per the rule above, "earned " would not refer to the subject (JC), but to something else in the sentence (records).
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2016, 06:52
banerjee06 wrote:
Hi Experts,
Here is a trouble I am facing with this questions. Although the answer can be derived very quickly through other splits, my questions is regarding the usage of verb-ed modifiers.
In a separate post on gmatclub by e-gmat it said two things:
1. verb-ed modifies preceding noun
2. if the subject of the sentence is the doer of the action it is not a verb-ed modifier

if i apply those two rules to this problem I get earned is not a modifier since JC the pilot earned them and she is the subject.

Hi banerjee06, students do find it tricky to distinguish between Simple Past Tense (Verb) and Past Participle (Modifier)

Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses a simple framework to distinguish between Simple Past Tense and Past Participle . If someone is interested, PM me your email-id, I can mail the corresponding section.
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 10 Oct 2016, 07:35
Split1) Construction: "so_for many x to be y" vs "so_that many x were y". The second one is correct grammar. A and B are out.

Split2) "to be" is wrong. Whenever I see "to be" in a sentence I see a red flag. A and B are out.

Split3) "time + when" vs "time + where" vs "time + in which" vs "time + that". The correct usage is "time + when" because when refers to time correctly. "Where" is a space so it cannot refer to "time". C and D are out. Additional read: http://esl.fis.edu/grammar/rules/relative.htm
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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 25 Oct 2016, 00:08
sayantanc2k wrote:
Responding to a PM......
"Now my question is I used the following rules to identify whether the -ed form is a verb or a verb-ed modifier:
1. The subject should not be the doer of the verb-ed action (I read it from a separate post by e-gmat).

Kindly advise if this rule is the correct one to go by? If not what should I use as a rule to understand if the verb-ed form is a modifier or not."

The rule is correct as long as it is meant that the verb-ed modifier does not refer to the subject. A verb-ed structure can STILL be a modifier if the subject is the doer of the action, but in this case the verb-ed modifier would refer to not the subject, but some other noun in the sentence.

I would say, the folowing method is intuitive for some (for me as well) to identify whether verb-ed construction is a verb or a past participle:

1. Verb-ed structure has only two uses: Verb (simple past), Past participle.
2. FIRST task is to identify the main verb of the sentence. (in general, this is an excellent practice to solve SC questions, not just to identify the verb-ed modifier)
3. If it is not found, then the verb-ed could be the main verb.
4. If it is found, then too the verb-ed could be a second main verb , if it is added with a conjunction "and" / "but".
5. If a main verb is found and the verb-ed construction is NOT added by a conjunction, then it could be a participle.

The above is not as complicated as it may appear - the process is intuitive and naturally occurs while analysing - let us take option E in the question:

What is the main verb? "held"
Can "earned" be a second main verb? No, since there is no conjunction. Thus "earned" is a past participle.

Nonetheless as per the rule above, "earned " would not refer to the subject (JC), but to something else in the sentence (records).


very helpful,
thanks sayantan2c,

it will be appreciate if you point out my fault.
1/
IMO, participle V-ING in B and C makes sense, because it states the simultaneous, and V-ing can state this simultaneous actions.

2/
earned in D and E,
I can totally understand earned modifies records,
what confused me is official explanation that earned is preferable,
but, before I read the answers D E, I would consider V-ING preferable,

How to identify which one , V-ING or V-ed, preferable if both works

waiting for your reply

Have a nice day
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 14 May 2017, 12:49
macjas wrote:
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when avation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were


A "So new for" is incorrect because "so" + adj must be followed by "that"
B "So new for" is incorrect because "so" + adj must be followed by "that"
C "Time where" is incorrect.
D "So new such that" is incorrect because "so" + adj must be followed by "that"
E Correct
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2017, 08:57
macjas wrote:
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when avation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were


A "So new for" is not idiomatic. "And she earned them" also implies a course correction or change of direction for the sentence, but the information provided only serves to emphasize or augment the prior statement in the sentence.
B "So new for" is not idiomatic.
C "These" lacks a noun to modify.
D "So new such that" is not idiomatic.
E Correct.
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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2017, 03:27
zoezhuyan wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
Responding to a PM......
"Now my question is I used the following rules to identify whether the -ed form is a verb or a verb-ed modifier:
1. The subject should not be the doer of the verb-ed action (I read it from a separate post by e-gmat).

Kindly advise if this rule is the correct one to go by? If not what should I use as a rule to understand if the verb-ed form is a modifier or not."

The rule is correct as long as it is meant that the verb-ed modifier does not refer to the subject. A verb-ed structure can STILL be a modifier if the subject is the doer of the action, but in this case the verb-ed modifier would refer to not the subject, but some other noun in the sentence.

I would say, the folowing method is intuitive for some (for me as well) to identify whether verb-ed construction is a verb or a past participle:

1. Verb-ed structure has only two uses: Verb (simple past), Past participle.
2. FIRST task is to identify the main verb of the sentence. (in general, this is an excellent practice to solve SC questions, not just to identify the verb-ed modifier)
3. If it is not found, then the verb-ed could be the main verb.
4. If it is found, then too the verb-ed could be a second main verb , if it is added with a conjunction "and" / "but".
5. If a main verb is found and the verb-ed construction is NOT added by a conjunction, then it could be a participle.

The above is not as complicated as it may appear - the process is intuitive and naturally occurs while analysing - let us take option E in the question:

What is the main verb? "held"
Can "earned" be a second main verb? No, since there is no conjunction. Thus "earned" is a past participle.

Nonetheless as per the rule above, "earned " would not refer to the subject (JC), but to something else in the sentence (records).


very helpful,
thanks sayantan2c,

it will be appreciate if you point out my fault.
1/
IMO, participle V-ING in B and C makes sense, because it states the simultaneous, and V-ing can state this simultaneous actions.

2/
earned in D and E,
I can totally understand earned modifies records,
what confused me is official explanation that earned is preferable,
but, before I read the answers D E, I would consider V-ING preferable,

How to identify which one , V-ING or V-ed, preferable if both works

waiting for your reply

Have a nice day
>_~


Comma + present participle (V-ing) acts as a verb modifier, whereas past participle (V-ed) acts as a noun modifier.

Here a noun modifier is required (referring to "speed records").

[Note: a present participle modifier without a comma may also act as a noun modifier:
I saw a bird flying above the tree: "flying.." refers to noun "bird" - implies that the bird was flying.
I saw a bird, flying above the tree: "flying.. " refers to the verb "saw".. when did I see the bird? - while flying - this sentence implies that I was flying.]
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jun 2017, 02:45
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A. and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew - illogical, a mess
B. earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were - again illogical, a mess
C. earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were - what is "these" referring to.. "where" must refer to a place and since we are talking about time, "when" is preferred
D. earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were - "in which" cannot refer to time.. we need a "when"
E. earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were - "earned" parallel to "held".. and " time" is follows by "when" correctly. CORRECT option
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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 06 Sep 2017, 07:24
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2018, 01:44
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when avation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be - usage of to be is incorrect
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were - usage of at a time that is incorrect
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were - ‘where’ refers to a place, not ‘time’ ; The use of demonstrative pronoun ‘these’ without a noun following it is incorrect
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were - usage of in which for time is incorrect ; structure ‘so new such that’ is incorrect
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were - Correct
Answer E

In option A(even in B) , has "for" been used as a conjunction (FANBOYS) or a preposition ?
“aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew” communicates that aviation was new for the planes!! Logically, it seems we want to use ‘so X that Y” idiom.

AjiteshArun , GMATNinja , mikemcgarry , egmat , sayantanc2k, DmitryFarber , MagooshExpert , chetan2u , daagh , other experts- please help
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2018, 07:20
Skywalker18 wrote:
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when avation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be - usage of to be is incorrect
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were - usage of at a time that is incorrect
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were - ‘where’ refers to a place, not ‘time’ ; The use of demonstrative pronoun ‘these’ without a noun following it is incorrect
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were - usage of in which for time is incorrect ; structure ‘so new such that’ is incorrect
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were - Correct

Answer E

In option A(even in B) , has "for" been used as a conjunction (FANBOYS) or a preposition ?
“aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew” communicates that aviation was new for the planes!! Logically, it seems we want to use ‘so X that Y” idiom. ...experts- please help



Hello Skywalker18,

Thank you for the query. :-)

IMHO, In Choice A, for has been used as a preposition. The structure of this choice makes me say so. Generally, when for is used as a conjunction, it is followed by a clause. But there is no verb for many of the planes.

In Choice B, the structure indicates that for has been used as a conjunction because it is followed by a clause.

But use of for is altogether incorrect in this official sentence because per the context of the sentence, we need the expression so X that Y to express the intended logical meaning.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2018, 22:09
Skywalker18 wrote:
In option A(even in B) , has "for" been used as a conjunction (FANBOYS) or a preposition ?
“aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew” communicates that aviation was new for the planes!! Logically, it seems we want to use ‘so X that Y” idiom.
Shraddha is right: for is a preposition there. The conjunction for means because.

That said, I've heard of too... for, but not so... for. So something like too large for us to send sounds natural to me, but something like so large for us to send does not.
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By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen [#permalink]

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New post 30 Mar 2018, 10:37
macjas wrote:
By 1940, the pilot Jacqueline Cochran held seventeen official national and international speed records, and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be of dangerously experimental design.

A and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be
B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were
C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were
D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were
E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were


A and she earned them at a time when aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew to be Modifier issue

B earning them at a time that aviation was still so new for many of the planes she flew were We require"when"

C earning these at a time where aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were We require"when"

D earned at a time in which aviation was still so new such that many of the planes she flew were We require"when"

E earned at a time when aviation was still so new that many of the planes she flew were

(E)
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