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By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations

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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 02 Aug 2014, 09:04
daagh wrote:
‘Its’ is a possessive pronoun and the ‘company’s’ is also a possessive noun. What more is required for proper reference? May I know the reason for asking for a possessive pronoun to stand for a non-possessive noun such as “a company”.


Daagh, Which answer choice are you advocating.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 02 Aug 2014, 17:28
GMATPill wrote:
alexBLR wrote:
By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms.
a. it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms
b. a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals
c. it can be determined by company managers how much effort ought to be devoted to each of the company’s products in order to meet its goals, both short and long term
d. it may be possible for company managers to determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s short and long term goals
e. managers at a company can determine how much effort ought to be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s goals in both the short and long term



Just based on sentence structure, the only possible answers can be narrowed down to (B) and (E).
Both allow the "-ING" verb to describe the subject of the main part of the sentence after the comma.

However in (E), it's unclear what "these products" is referring to.

In (B), it is much clearer when the sentence says "company's products." Sure, the sentence does not directly mention "company" earlier in the sentence. Instead it says "a company's managers"---but still it's pretty clear what we're talking about here. Much clearer than it is in (E).

Could (B) have been written to be even clearer by directly saying "company" instead of "a company's..."---sure. But remember the GMAT exam is never black or white. It's not about what is absolutely technically correct. Doing well is about choosing the best of the available answer choices. And in the case, don't waste time by mulling over minute details in (B). (B) is the best from the list.


Thank you for the explanation. I went for E because I thought "its" was unclear in B , and the company's long term and short term goals was clearer. I didn't pay attention to " these products" in E.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 03 Aug 2014, 09:05
Even though I got this one right, I am not happy with the question. The introduction of manager actually has given a new direction to the question.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 05 Oct 2014, 21:23
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By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms.

a) it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms

b) a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals

c) it can be determined by company managers how much effort ought to be devoted to each of the company’s products in order to meet its goals, both short and long term

d) it may be possible for company managers to determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s short and long term goals

e) managers at a company can determine how much effort ought to be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s goals in both the short and long term
Spoiler: :: DOUBT
I encountered this question in a Manhattan Mock GMAT. My doubt here is whether "its" here can refer to company in option (B) since "company" is in possessive case here.

Originally posted by madhavmarda on 05 Oct 2014, 09:04.
Last edited by PiyushK on 05 Oct 2014, 21:23, edited 1 time in total.
edited subject and added spoiler.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 05 Oct 2014, 21:17
1
2
madhavmarda wrote:
By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms.


a) it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms

b) a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals

c) it can be determined by company managers how much effort ought to be devoted to each of the company’s products in order to meet its goals, both short and long term

d) it may be possible for company managers to determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s short and long term goals

e) managers at a company can determine how much effort ought to be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s goals in both the short and long term

I encountered this question in a Manhattan Mock GMAT. My doubt here is whether "its" here can refer to company in option (B) since "company" is in possessive case here.

Dear madhavmarda
I'm happy to respond. :-) As always, MGMAT is spot-on correct; they write excellent questions.

You see, a noun in the possessive cannot be the antecedent of a pronoun unless the pronoun is also in the possessive. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/gmat-pronoun-traps/

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 05 Oct 2014, 21:19
madhavmarda : Follow posting guidelines.

Guidelines:
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Specific instruction:
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 05 Oct 2014, 21:26
Quote:
I encountered this question in a Manhattan Mock GMAT. My doubt here is whether "its" here can refer to company in option (B) since "company" is in possessive case here.


possessive pronoun "its" can refer to possessive noun "company's" . the rule, if any, is that non possessive pronouns cannot refer to possessive nouns . ALSO possessive pronoun can refer back to object and subject nouns
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 06 Oct 2014, 00:41
mikemcgarry wrote:
madhavmarda wrote:
By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms.


a) it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms

b) a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals

c) it can be determined by company managers how much effort ought to be devoted to each of the company’s products in order to meet its goals, both short and long term

d) it may be possible for company managers to determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s short and long term goals

e) managers at a company can determine how much effort ought to be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s goals in both the short and long term

I encountered this question in a Manhattan Mock GMAT. My doubt here is whether "its" here can refer to company in option (B) since "company" is in possessive case here.

Dear madhavmarda
I'm happy to respond. :-) As always, MGMAT is spot-on correct; they write excellent questions.

You see, a noun in the possessive cannot be the antecedent of a pronoun unless the pronoun is also in the possessive. See:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/gmat-pronoun-traps/

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)


Thanks a lot Mike for the explanation. I marked E, since it makes the proper use of nouns, little did I realize that E is nothing short of being a verbiage.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 17 Feb 2015, 22:15
Option B clears the dangling modifier problem and is concise and well meaning.. Hence B
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 16 Apr 2015, 08:09
hoangyenle wrote:
egmat wrote:
pavanpuneet wrote:
Hi Shraddha,

I was also between stuck in the end between B and E but then E was knocked because of the parallelism error in both the x and the y, however, I want to understand isnt it referring back to Company and then I remember reading about possessive poison.

Please confirm!

Thanks in advance!


Hi there,

This is the sentence with Choice E:

By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, managers at a company can determine how much effort ought to be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s goals in both the short and long term.

In this sentence, along with the parallelism issue that you have mentioned, “each of these products” has no reference. What are these “each of these products”? Does the sentence contain a list of products to which this phrase can be referred? No. This reference error makes choice E incorrect.

Now let’s analyze the sentence with choice B:

By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals.

Pronoun “its” is a possessive noun. This means it must refer to a possessive noun. There is only one possessive noun in the sentence – “company’s”. So without any ambiguity, possessive “its” is referring to “company’s”. If we replace “its” with “company’s” we get the logical intended meaning of the sentence:

By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet company’s short and long term goals.
Hence, this choice is error free.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha



Hi Shraddha,

Thanks for detailed explanation. However, in Choice B:
"By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals."

--> I think the "company's" in this sentence plays the role of possessive adjective, hence, can't be consider as antecedent of "its".

Quote from GMAT Manhattan:

" The board is investigating several executives' compensation packages in order to determine how much may have been improperly awarded to them"[color=#ed1c24][/color]
--> This is considered WRONG because "them" cannot refer to "executives' ".

can you help to explain and differentiate these 2 cases?

Many thanks in advance :)
YL



them is not a possessive pronoun.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 09 Aug 2015, 02:01
GMATPill / @E-GMAT

Is it appropriate to say 'a company's managers' ?
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 18 Aug 2015, 17:41
Request you not to write your queries/answers/opinions in question window. It prevents ppl from analysing the question. The whole purpose of GMAT Club forum goes wasted by doing so.


You have response windows to do all such things.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 18 Aug 2015, 18:04
sagarbuss wrote:
Request you not to write your queries/answers/opinions in question window. It prevents ppl from analysing the question. The whole purpose of GMAT Club forum goes wasted by doing so.


You have response windows to do all such things.


Thank you for bringing these issues to our notice but save your energy by writing just a line instead of 3-4 for posts such as these that are very old. The original posters will not modify it now.

Next time, just mention a single line and one of the moderators will take a look at your post.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 20 Dec 2015, 08:05
Hello,

I am not sure about the proper usage of the auxiliary verb "should". I read that it is used to express moral obligation and not f.e. to express likelihood or conditions.
However, in a CAT I answered the following question:

By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms.

Correct answer: a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals

Is "should" properly used here? It is definitely not a moral obligation that is described in the sentence above...

Thank you very much in advance.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 20 Dec 2015, 11:36
Lauch wrote:
Hello,

I am not sure about the proper usage of the auxiliary verb "should". I read that it is used to express moral obligation and not f.e. to express likelihood or conditions.
However, in a CAT I answered the following question:

By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms.

Correct answer: a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals

Is "should" properly used here? It is definitely not a moral obligation that is described in the sentence above...

Thank you very much in advance.

Dear Lauch,
I'm happy to help. :-) In case it's helpful, here's a blog article about auxiliary verbs:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/auxiliary- ... -the-gmat/

Your question is much more specific. Here's what I'll say. It's very hard to create simple rules that encapsulate the full use of a word. Language is a living and complex thing. It's true that "should" is used to express moral obligations, but more general, it expresses obligations under all sorts of contingencies. The general format is:
If you want X, you should do Y.
If no particularly contingency is explicit, then the assumed contingency is something along the lines of "if you want to be a good person" or "if you want to go to heaven when you die" or something of that sort. All kinds of other contingencies can be expressed.
If you want to get rich, you should work for a hedge fund.
If you want to lose weight, you should cut all sweets from your diet.
If you want to rob a bank, you first should perfect your safe-cracking skills.

The context may be amoral or completely immoral. The word "should" has no intrinsic moral valence.

The sentence from the CAT is flawless.
A company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals.
Here, the contingency is expressed in an infinitive of purpose, so the context is clear, and in that context, the prescriptive "should" is 100% justified. The word "should" always implies some kind of goal, and as long as that goal or target is made clear, the effort to reach that goal or target makes perfect sense. Once again, it's only when no explicit goal is mentioned (e.g. "You should treat others with kindness") that there is an implied moral/ religious/ spiritual thrust to the statement.

An entirely separate use of "should" is also grammatically correct. It's a sophisticated way to talk about future possibility:
"Should Hillary Clinton be elected in 2016, she would be in a position to replace Supreme Court judges."
This is a hypothetical statement. Note the use of the subjunctive. We don't know whether Clinton will be elected. This is a more sophisticated way to state the future conditional statement:
"If Hillary Clinton is elected in 2016, she would be in a position to replace Supreme Court judges."
Either is perfectly correct.

It's hard to formulate simple rules that capture the living complexity of English. In fact, it's impossible to arrive at GMAT SC mastery by learning some ideal set of rules. The only way you attain mastery is to encounter all the variations present in sophisticated writing, and to do this, you need to develop a habit of reading.
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2014/how-to-imp ... bal-score/

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2016, 18:25
arkadiyua wrote:
By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations, it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms.

a) it is possible to determine how much effort ought to be devoted to each of a company’s products in order to meet its goals in both the short and long terms
b) a company’s managers can determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of the company’s products in order to meet its short and long term goals
c) it can be determined by company managers how much effort ought to be devoted to each of the company’s products in order to meet its goals, both short and long term
d) it may be possible for company managers to determine how much effort should be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s short and long term goals
e) managers at a company can determine how much effort ought to be dedicated to each of these products in order to meet the company’s goals in both the short and long term
Have a difficulty understanding the reason for correctness of the OA for this one. Will appreicate a thorough explanation.

Thanks!

OA is B


I went with B..
by applying x, -> we need a subject here. managers applied smth to get smth else.
A - modifier error as above explained.
B - looks ok
C - boh short and long term - what it refers to? + modifier error as in A. THESE - doesn't have an antecedent
D - introduces a POSSIBILITY - so no. these - again error
E - managers at a company - way wordier. these - again pronoun error.

B looks better. B it is.
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2016, 01:04
Sorry to bring this up again! BUT I m a little bit confused about this question.

I came down to B and E, and I found both of them had the errors.

E - use "these" with no antecedent
B - use its as a possessive pronoun of company's managers; this one is correct, but they used "A" company's managers. Is this correct?
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2016, 08:46
nighthawks wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again! BUT I m a little bit confused about this question.

I came down to B and E, and I found both of them had the errors.

E - use "these" with no antecedent
B - use its as a possessive pronoun of company's managers; this one is correct, but they used "A" company's managers. Is this correct?


The usage in B is valid. Take another example (from a famous song):

"Diamonds are a girl's best friend."
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2016, 09:25
sayantanc2k wrote:
nighthawks wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again! BUT I m a little bit confused about this question.

I came down to B and E, and I found both of them had the errors.

E - use "these" with no antecedent
B - use its as a possessive pronoun of company's managers; this one is correct, but they used "A" company's managers. Is this correct?


The usage in B is valid. Take another example (from a famous song):

"Diamonds are a girl's best friend."


Thank you for your answer, but I am still curious; company's managers is singular or plural? if it is plural how it "A" is correct?

I totally understand if it used A company's manager .... as a singular
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Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations [#permalink]

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New post 05 May 2016, 08:00
nighthawks wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
nighthawks wrote:
Sorry to bring this up again! BUT I m a little bit confused about this question.

I came down to B and E, and I found both of them had the errors.

E - use "these" with no antecedent
B - use its as a possessive pronoun of company's managers; this one is correct, but they used "A" company's managers. Is this correct?


The usage in B is valid. Take another example (from a famous song):

"Diamonds are a girl's best friend."


Thank you for your answer, but I am still curious; company's managers is singular or plural? if it is plural how it "A" is correct?

I totally understand if it used A company's manager .... as a singular


The article "a" refers to the "company's", not "manager(s)". It does not matter whether the manager(s) is singular or plural.
Re: By applying optimization techniques commonly used to plan operations   [#permalink] 05 May 2016, 08:00

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