Calling All Fall 2010 Washington U. (Olin) Applicants!

I think this means they just haven't been read yet.

Sorry for taking so long to answer your question BMW. I have been off the grid for the last few days.

I did not receive any scholarship offer yet. I think that may come in the mail, hopefully in the next few days. I will share everything that I receive with you guys.

I believe the interviews are by invitation only, but do not read too much into when you get an interview invite. I just happen to live in an area where interviews were already occuring. I think this is why my app was able to be processed so quickly. I promise you, I am not that special!

lol @ Evergreen. Are you sure you are not that special?

lol Thanxz zippy10. Clearly am yet to master how this forum works. I think PM's chill in outbox until the recipient logs in and then itz delivered. Amazing huh?

Hey guys. I have a question that could be applied to many b-schools, but I work in STL so I am very familiar with Olin. Do any of you feel like the value of your MBA as full-timers is diluted by Olin's nearly open admission policy to PMBA's? I seriously considered Olin (and might circle back if I go bust here in R2), but the student profile for part-time is so poor and seems to be getting worse. With Boeing (and presumably other smaller local employers) cutting their match, Olin hasn't been able to fill it's modest target of ~76 enrollees per part-time semester for over a year. I learned Olin enrolled <50 for Jan 2010. I realize this is overly anecdotal, but an UG classmate of mine was accepted (after WL) with a 490 GMAT with absolutely nothing stellar to offset.

Don't you guys who have top 20 profiles hate the idea of "anybodys" carrying your same degree? We are all out to acquire new skills, but we also want to distinguish ourselves. I am starting to feel, at least in STL, that the word is getting around that WashU means something for law and medicine, but that Olin is tumbling in prestige. Thoughts?

Sorry if this sounds like a troll, but it is a legitimate problem I have struggled with.

stler645,

Your concerns are legitimate and genuine. I am not well verserd with the Olin PT program so I'd let others who know more about the program/Olin brand make Olin-specific comments here.

From a general angle though, I agree with you that one of the reasons we all worked very hard for top-20 programs is cuz we do "we also want to distinguish ourselves". Otherwise why bother? One can earn an "MBA" from virtually anywhere these days. Ranked programs help to 'stand out' and top tier programs help to seperate 'wannabes' from the 'real deals'.

One thing I'd suggest is that you compare other top tier school's PT programs and juxtapose. It'll be nice if you share your findings here so we can all glean something from them. Another thing is to touch base with Olin alums (and recriuters) and check out how much weight thier Olin MBA carried/carries in the job market. More research in that line....

BW offers a PT MBA breakout and separate rankings. Scary at it is, SLU ranks a spot ahead of WashU in this ranking (can't say I agree with that). Both are in the mid 40's.

Many schools that are similarly ranked in FT seem to do much better than Olin in PT. USC is #19, Emory #11. Generally the make up is very different (Nebraska is #4, Drexel #10, etc.)

Olin posted a PT average GMAT of 603 in 2009 (presumably it has fallen since). Meanwhile even the weaker comparable PT's such as McCombs (#37) and Georgetown (#42) posted GMAT averages of 645 and 667 respectively. Olin ranked 60th amongst post-MBA outcomes, though it ranked 24th in student satisfaction (implied contradiction).

Beyond the prestige thing, quality of classmates is important to me. If I did go the Olin route, I might actually lean PT considering I am already set up here. I realize GMAT isn't always indicative of someone's intelligence - particularly if you knew your target had low standards, leading to you studying less - but I would be less than thrilled to learn half of my classmates couldn't muster up a 600. I guess the simple answer to the latter would be to go FT. Oh well, hope this helps.

I truly understand your point and appreciate it. But, Olin is an elite business school. It does not matter that some of the part time students (who probably work for important companies in the St Louis economy) have low GMAT scores. It's a wonderful school. And believe me, it is just as good as the law school!!! I think it's great when a school comes down from it's Ivory tower to educate local businessmen/women in the PT program. These are also people who will take that education and put it to work in the school's backyard, instead of going to New York, etc. And those people prolly pay full tuition which allows us to get scholarship money in an AWFUL economy! I urge you all to view the world less superficicially. The school is ranked #22 in US News!!! Their law school is ranked #19, not a huge discrepency. If you do decide to go to Olin, please don't bring that attitude. Inferiority complexes destroy communities. #22 for pete's sake!!!!!! Please don't take this post personally! It is just my opinion.

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Evergreen, be very careful about just blindly looking at rankings, especially just once source. I know USNews is generally considered the gold standard for US-based programs but it relies very heavily on average GMAT score and admit rate.

WUSTL had an average of 651 in 2006. Admit rate was 54%.

Now, WUSTL reports a 680 average and a 34% admit rate. That's a huge difference in a three year span, no? Those two figures account for much of the boost in the ranking.

Compare this to a school like Texas that had a 678 average in 2002, 680 average in 2006, and a 690 average in 2009. Their admit rate has remained around 28-30%, too.

I know WUSTL's law program is known for spending a lot of scholarship money to get people with high LSATs to enroll (as well as people with high GPAs...but not necessarily high LSATs AND high GPAs) in order to increase their USNews ranking since they are only required to report medians. The same thing could be happening here...but I have no way to support that.

Either WUSTL has become far more popular with applicants when compared to schools like Texas, or Olin has realized they can game the rankings by firing off $$$ to students. I actually don't have an issue with that. My issue comes with their terrible career services reputation and inability to bring major companies to campus for OCR.

I am an international and have got admit( with dean's half scholarship). What initially attracted me to Olin was free application ,but now I am considering it seriously. The thing that I liked about Olin was the high %age of students who were able to secure jobs in this tough economy.

But one thing which makes me doubt it is that those jobs are not very high paying or very prestigious. Is it reflective of the school's career center or is it that its grads are not very ambitious.

How stable is the school. What are the chances that the school will sill be among US news top 25 by the time we graduate.

craggy,

Congrats on acceptance. Olin is a very good school and if I were you I would seriously consider it. Do you mind sharing your profile and overall acceptance experience(interview and other stuff that would be helpful to know)? I'm an international applicant too, btw.

I understand. I just can't support the thought process. I used only one source because it is the gold standard. But to elaborate, BW ranks the school #28 (#2 in job placement, which may mean that career services has heard the complaints!), Financial Times ranks the school #25 USA, and the Economist ranks it #34 USA, and once again US News ranks at #22. Those numbers have remained fairly consistent for quite sometime. It is obviously a fantastic school. If they know how to game the system, ranking wise, well that's a good thing.

My only point is if you can't be proud of the numbers posted above then please do your future classmates a favor and go to another school. Let them be proud of attending a great institution. Once again, I appreciate the comments and think they are legitimate discussions for this board. Mine is just a perspective on the discussion.

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Thanx stler645, Evergreen10 and hypermeganet! I think this sort of debate and discussion is healthy for this process. I agree with stler645 that the "quality of classmates is important to me". So true. Have you visited Olin? Since you are in STL, why not visit, sit thru a class and observe. That way, you'd get a "feel" of the quality of the program. I visited Kellogg for an interview and sat thru a class. I was very impressed with the quality of students and the prof. I also visited Kelley after my admit and as I noted on the Kelley forum, I felt "mega underqualified AND super proud to have gotten in so I can get to rub minds with such top talents". Again, therez no point going to B-school if you wont be exposed the the best minds and make connections, on a first name level, with future leaders. So why not visit and see how you feel after that. I plan to visit WashU sometime too...Btw, I think FT MBA is way better than PT. Again, for me, quality of talent is crucial...

Evergreen, I like your passionate "defense" of Olin. I like that a lot. At this point, am deciding between Olin and Kelley and I must admit that the Kelley team's outreach and culture, in my opinion, is impressive. Of course my visit to Kelley biased my view(I am planning an Olin visit). So it was real nice to read your passionate view of the Olin program. But as hypermeganet pointed out, why not share other points/strengths besides the rankings that probably matter more that rankings. I REALLY wanna learn more about their other strong points: the facilities, faculty, student profile, career prospects/ the Olin brand etc... I am in the biomedical industry and know that WashU med school is top notch(and law school?). But that does not really mean other WashU school are the same. To illustrate, WashU med is # 4, U Chicago med is #23: https://www.residentphysician.com/Medica ... nkings.htm But was know that Booth is #1 (BW) for B-school.....

Please, let the conversation continue...

I think, Evergreen, you're doing a disservice to yourself to be leaning so heavily on the rankings and not looking at the numbers themselves. Clearly, Olin is a well thought of school within the business community.

Note: BW ranked Olin # 28 but recruiters gave Olin students a "C" for both management ability and analytical ability, the worst grade possible. Students gave teachers an "A." Career prospects were awarded a "B" by students. The scale was A+ to C, best to worst. Recruiters also ranked Olin 41st out of 45 schools in terms of how likely they'd be to recruit students from that school.

https://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactiv ... /index.asp

The job % number can be misleading. If 91% of students are employed in jobs 3 months in, but a good number of those jobs are not MBA-caliber jobs, who cares, right? I see Olin publishes that 91% figure but I can't find an average salary or a salary range for the class of 09. I see a median of 90k...but that means little if a good portion of the class is making $50-60k. That's why I like when a school shows median and mean.

Just make sure you have ALL of the facts before making a decision. I was admitted here and I'm trying to see if they are in the running, so I'm not trying to trash the school. Just being analytical about my investment.

More on why I think rankings ALONE doesn't do it. 2010 FT rankings https://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolra ... a-rankings has the Indian School of business at #12, higher than Stern(13), Tuck (13), Yale (16), Oxford (16), Fuqua (20), Kellogg (22!!!!), Darden (31), Cornell (36), Olin (49), Kelley (57!!!!!, OK, this one was personal cuz I really like the Kelley program ).

Anyways, my point is that --with no insult intended to anyone of Indian heritage here -- there is NO WAY folks forgo the Stern, Oxford, Kellogg etc programs for the Indian School of business MBA. Why is it ranked @ # 12? So the parameters of ranking sometimes, again..... sometimes..... is not reflective of true value. Personally, I think the BW ranking are more accurate....

But Evergreen please help us out here with other strengths of the Olin program...(see my previous post this AM)

Oh btw, I agree with hypermeganet comment: "I was admitted here and I'm trying to see if they are in the running, so I'm not trying to trash the school. Just being analytical about my investment". Same here. No one is trying to trash Olin. We are lucky enough (or worked our butts off) to have the privilege of making a choice between top schools so thatz the whole point of this exercise....

I am definitely not trashing Olin. For the record, I just wanted to hear thoughts on low hurdles for the PMBA diluting the value of the otherwise strong FT. Every year there are probably 70+ Olin MBA's awarded to individuals who couldn't sniff the FT WL. I often wonder if most firms are wise enough to decipher between the two (or care to) once a candidate is a few years removed from b-school.

I have attended an information session at Olin, but not a class. I found the presentation comparing the program to others (ranging from Chicago to USC to BU) to be a bit odd. I also visited Haas, Anderson, Wharton, and Sloan and never saw anything like it. Otherwise, my impressions of the school are mixed to positive. I am impressed most with Olin's faculty. Olin's ability to propel me in my career (i.e. brand + career services + strength of alumni network) is what has deterred me to date.

I am intrigued by the Kelley vs. Olin debate. I attended IU for two years in UG (though transfered and graduated elsewhere for personal reasons - no animosity for the school). I would argue that the quality of life would be much greater in Bloomington than STL, unless you despise you college towns. As far as better school...hmmm...I dunno. Nice to hear the Kelley visit was so great.

Isn't Kelley known for logistics & GM? What would you all say Olin is known for? Geeze they offer a lot of unique concentrations....

Great discussion. Case and Hyper, I agree wholly with your analysis and believe this decision should be analyzed from all angles. I realize that no one is trying to "trash" Olin. I,too, am trying to discern which school is the best fit for me. I am not trying to sell Olin based on a few magazine rankings. My argument is in response to the legitimate question posed by our colleague, stler, as to whether Olin's PT program is damaging the school's reputation. I contend that it has not and the rankings show that the school is still highly regarded. That is my only point.

As an aside, I think that the Kelley vs Olin is a great debate. Both are elite schools, but lack the WOW factor of Tuck, Kellog, HBS, etc. Would everyone agree that there are two tiers of elite schools?

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