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# claimed to have .......

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Manager
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11 Jun 2004, 22:24
4.In June, 1981, six teenagers in the village of Medjugorje, Yugoslavia, claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years.
(A) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who
(B) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
(C) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
(D) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, who
(E) had claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
If you have any questions
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Director
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11 Jun 2004, 22:44
putting my trust on holy heavens, I choose A
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11 Jun 2004, 22:48
Decision 1: will it be claimed/had claimed
I go with claimed, as "had claimed" indicates that there is something that happened after the teenagers had visions of Virgin Mary.

Decision 2: whom/who
who should be used in cases where it is supposed to refer to the subject and whom is used in referring to the receiver of an action. Thence, I go with who

Left with A & D and here comes decision 3
Here I feel have had is redundant, leaving me with the option D

FA is D

Please provide more explanation on the above decisions! (even if correct)
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11 Jun 2004, 23:01
A is my FA.

teenagers have.....
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Re: claimed to have ....... [#permalink]

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12 Jun 2004, 10:57
baruna wrote:
4.In June, 1981, six teenagers in the village of Medjugorje, Yugoslavia, claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years.
(A) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, who
(B) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
(C) claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom
(D) claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary, who
(E) had claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary, whom

A seems to be correct. Since the action is taking place in the past, 'teenagers claimed' to 'have had'. Past in the past. It's not clear whether they saw Mary before June or in June 1981. They could have seen hear earlier, but claimed only in June.
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12 Jun 2004, 13:24
Frankly, I donâ€™t believe the sentence warrants perfect infinitive. There is simply no indication that the teenagers saw the saint before 1981. End of story. Moreover, it is said that the saint has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years. You need to have a starting point to be able to say that. With the perfect infinitive you canâ€™t say for sure when the visions began. Hence D.
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12 Jun 2004, 16:33
Director
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13 Jun 2004, 01:55
I am still not convinced abt. why D is incorrect.

Paul --> any thoughts?
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13 Jun 2004, 08:18
A would be my answer. A uses present perfect form which is the right form when we are talking about an action that happened before another action in the past and that extends until the present.

For example:
Yesterday, I thought I understand it.
Yesterday, I thought I have understood it.

2nd sentence is better because it clearly points out that the fact that he "have understood" happened before your thought and that you still think today that you understood it. 1 uses incorrect verb tense and does not distinguish between understand and thought, the former happening before the thinking

In original sentence:
D) In June, 1981, six teenagers claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary
A) In June, 1981, six teenagers claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary

Same here, we need present perfect "have had" because it shows that the action happened before June, 1981 and the visions still persist today. The fact that the visions still persist today is clearly reinforced by the second half of the sentence: "who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years"

A is best
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Best Regards,

Paul

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14 Jun 2004, 09:07
Paul--> thanks for the explanation!
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05 Jan 2005, 09:53
Paul wrote:
A would be my answer. A uses present perfect form which is the right form when we are talking about an action that happened before another action in the past and that extends until the present.

For example:
Yesterday, I thought I understand it.
Yesterday, I thought I have understood it.

2nd sentence is better because it clearly points out that the fact that he "have understood" happened before your thought and that you still think today that you understood it. 1 uses incorrect verb tense and does not distinguish between understand and thought, the former happening before the thinking

In original sentence:
D) In June, 1981, six teenagers claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary
A) In June, 1981, six teenagers claimed to have had visions of the Virgin Mary

Same here, we need present perfect "have had" because it shows that the action happened before June, 1981 and the visions still persist today. The fact that the visions still persist today is clearly reinforced by the second half of the sentence: "who they say has continued to appear to them over the ensuing years"

A is best

Great explanation of the present perfect part, but could you please explain why 'who' is right and 'whom' is wrong? That's where i got things mixed up.
05 Jan 2005, 09:53
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