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Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip

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Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 05:01
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56% (00:53) correct 44% (01:03) wrong based on 367 sessions

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Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.

A. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.
B. Companies, investors, along with governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if it is to defend against future economic crises.
C. Companies, as well as investors and governments, must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend from future economic crises.
D. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if these are to defend from future economic crises.
E. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if future economic crises are to be defended

I know correct idiom is defend against but isnt A wrong they can refer to "guiding principles" or "companies,investors and government"
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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28 Mar 2015, 09:17
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Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.

A. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.

B. Companies, investors, along with governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if it is to defend against future economic crises.

C. Companies, as well as investors and governments, must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend from future economic crises.

D. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if these are to defend from future economic crises.

E. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if future economic crises are to be defended.
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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Updated on: 24 Mar 2015, 09:59
Is it that the guiding principles are also likely to defend against future economic crises, while the investors, companies and the governments are going to be mere spectators?It isn't logical. In resolving pronoun ambiguity, logic is the supreme guiding principle
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Originally posted by daagh on 19 Apr 2012, 06:06.
Last edited by daagh on 24 Mar 2015, 09:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 06:42
if u r a teacher ur tone could have been better.

Logically it is obvious that guiding principles wont be defending
but "they" is still ambiguous

in MGMAT SC
Researches claim to have developed new "nano-papers" incorporating tiny cellulose fibers, which THEY allege give THEM the strength of cast iron.

Manhattan guys have asked to remove both they and them as they are ambiguous.
For THEY logically only researchers are the antecedent , i guess "nano-papers" and cellulose fibers cant allege

Can u please explain why is THEY ambiguous in this MGMAT question
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 06:55
rajcools wrote:
in MGMAT SC
Researches claim to have developed new "nano-papers" incorporating tiny cellulose fibers, which THEY allege give THEM the strength of cast iron.

Clearly the sentence is ambiguous and MGMAT has rightly suggested to replace the pronouns with corresponding nouns.

In the original question 'Companies, investors....':
'IF' is a subordinate conjunction and subject of the subordinate clause can logically refer to the subject of the main clause. So A is the correct answer and there is no ambiguity. Even MGMAT talks about this point in SC guide.
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 07:20
I will not know why MGMAT says they and them are ambiguous. They, I mean, MGMAT are the best people to answer. I have the same doubt as you have. But, they are the same people who say logic is ultimate in pronoun reference; In this case all logic points to they referring to researchers. So this is a valid doubt that you can ask them and then publish clarification here

With regard to the pedagogic tone, like a fervent teacher, I wish to drive home some points forcefully. It is not to reflect upon your standing on the question. Hope you appreciate.
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 08:03
Let me cite an interesting case. This is a question fro OG 12
SC Q 10

10. Carnivorous mammals can endure what would
otherwise be lethal levels of body heat because they
have a heat-exchange network which kept the brain
from getting too hot.
(A) which kept
(B) that keeps
(C) which has kept
(D) that has been keeping
(E) having kept

The ununderlined portion has a pronoun they. What does it refer to? Mammals without doubt. Can we say they is referring to lethal levels just because that is also an eligible contender along with mammals?. As per MGMAT, they may be ambiguous. However, GMAT has passed it refrring to mammals

Another example ( it may be from GPREP)

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large as or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.
A. most of them as large as or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling

What does them refer to? Definitely not astronomers but logically only to the planets. The correct answer is C according to GMAT, accepting them as referring to planets, while we can argue that they can also refer to other eligible plural nouns.
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 08:45
so what do u suggest
pronoun ambiguity should be handled on logical basis???
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 15:10
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Found this in manhattan forum
"
as noted a few other times on this forum - most noticeably in the GMATPrep verbal folder, but in a couple places in the other verbal folders - pronoun ambiguity is not an absolute rule. in other words, the test will clearly tolerate a certain degree of pronoun ambiguity.

in general, we've found:
the gmat will tolerate pronoun ambiguity when both of the following are satisfied:
1. the intended referent makes much more sense than do the other possible referents,
and
2. the intended referent is PARALLEL TO THE PRONOUN, and the other possible referents are NOT parallel to the pronoun.

"
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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19 Apr 2012, 19:51
OK good; The first point says crisply what I have maintained elaborately, I suppose. I haven't seen much of MGMAT, except for a few quotes like from contributors like you. . A kudo to you for all the pains you took to make this point clear for the benefit of other audience
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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23 Jul 2012, 23:20
What exactly is the problem with option C if someone can explain it please ? Is it only the usage of defend from or some other issue as well ?
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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Updated on: 09 Oct 2012, 02:06
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Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.

A. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.
B. Companies, investors, along with governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if it is to defend against future economic crises.
C. Companies, as well as investors and governments, must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend from future economic crises.
D. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if these are to defend from future economic crises.
E. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if future economic crises are to be defended.
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Originally posted by getgyan on 08 Oct 2012, 22:25.
Last edited by getgyan on 09 Oct 2012, 02:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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08 Oct 2012, 23:08
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1
getgyan wrote:
Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.

A. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.
B. Companies, investors, along with governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if it is to defend against future economic crises.
C. Companies, as well as investors and governments, must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend from future economic crises.
D. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if these are to defend from future economic crises.
E. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if future economic crises are to be defended.

This is weird problem What's the source?

1st the easy eliminations ->

B. Companies, investors, along with governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if it is to defend against future economic crises.

it cant refer to Companies, investors and governments - Bye bye B

C. Companies, as well as investors and governments, must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend from future economic crises.

as well as cannot be replace COMMA or AND ; also the correct Idiom is Defend against not defend from - KILL C

D. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if these are to defend from future economic crises.

these cannot be used as a pronoun - "these" are mostly used as an adjective for example these cars, these trees etc

Now between A and E

A. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.
E. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if future economic crises are to be defended.

E changes the meaning of the sentence saying that it's not the Companies, investors, and governments are defending economic crises - it's some1 else who is doing it,as the sentence is written in passive voice. This is not the intent of the sentence and original says Companies, investors, and governments are fighting it.

Now on to A -> A is all OK, you might think "they" is ambiguous but "they" clearly refers to " companies, investors, and governments " For example

Tanya and Zeba will to the party, if they hear back from their dates. Similar construction is followed in A!

Pls do write back if you have any questions!
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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09 Oct 2012, 04:37
getgyan wrote:
Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.

A. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.
B. Companies, investors, along with governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if it is to defend against future economic crises.
C. Companies, as well as investors and governments, must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend from future economic crises.
D. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if these are to defend from future economic crises.
E. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if future economic crises are to be defended.

Item in a list construction is "A, B and C"
This is violated in B and C. Eliminated. B also has a "it" issue.
D apparently is correct but "they" is a much clearer pronoun for the enitites rather than "these". "these" is a demonstrative pronoun which is mostly used for phrases like "these clubs", "these cars" et al.
E. The defence of future economic crises is not happening magically out of thin air. The companies, investors and the govt must make it happen. E avoids the intention. Hence incorrect. I could post 2 amazing OG 13 Very hard question based on this intent part!

A is correct!
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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09 Oct 2012, 04:41
Thirteen states from all regions of the country announced a plan to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt emission limits that would be far stricter than the federal rules.

(A) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt
(B) to impose new controls on truck and bus engines' pollution by the joint adoption of
(C) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines by jointly adopting
(D) for imposing new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines, and jointly adopting
(E) for imposing new controls on truck and bus engine pollution in the joint adoption of

Try this one!
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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09 Oct 2012, 05:30
Thirteen states from all regions of the country announced a plan to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt emission limits that would be far stricter than the federal rules.

(A) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt-------- the main clause is in past tense, the sub-clause at the end is in future past; but only the prepositional phrase is in simple future, thus flaunting a discordant shift of tense.

(B) to impose new controls on truck and bus engines' pollution by the joint adoption of -- by the joint adoption is unidiomatic

(C) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines by jointly adopting--- best choice; jointly adopting now properly modifies plans to impose new controls

(D) for imposing new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines, and jointly adopting ---- for imposing is unidiomatic; jointly adopting should modify the new plans, rather than being another independent factor]

(E) for imposing new controls on truck and bus engine pollution in the joint adoption of – for imposing is unidiomatic; bus engine pollution in the joint adoption is jarring’ it should at least be engines’ pollution
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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09 Oct 2012, 05:36
souvik101990 wrote:
Thirteen states from all regions of the country announced a plan to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt emission limits that would be far stricter than the federal rules.

(A) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt
(B) to impose new controls on truck and bus engines' pollution by the joint adoption of
(C) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines by jointly adopting
(D) for imposing new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines, and jointly adopting
(E) for imposing new controls on truck and bus engine pollution in the joint adoption of

Try this one!

This is gotta be C because

(A) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt
IN that is wrong - In that used for limiting statements; but the sentence is showing how these states are imposing pollution control

(B) to impose new controls on truck and bus engines' pollution by the joint adoption of
states are not placing control on truck; they are placing controls from both pollution from truck and bus engines

(C) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines by jointly adopting
CORRECT

(D) for imposing new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines, and jointly adopting
For imposing is not OK; to show the intent "to +verb" works well

(E) for imposing new controls on truck and bus engine pollution in the joint adoption of
For imposing is not OK; to show the intent "to +verb" works well

cheers
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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09 Oct 2012, 08:25
Yeah so basically my point was that jointly adopting is favored because of the "intent"
But you guys got it right anyway so thats Great
Daagh, as always is flawless!
Cheers!
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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10 Oct 2012, 11:47
Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.

A. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend against future economic crises.
B. Companies, investors, along with governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if it is to defend against future economic crises. SVA issue
C. Companies, as well as investors and governments, must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if they are to defend from future economic crises. meaning issue
D. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if these are to defend from future economic crises. They should be used instead of that
E. Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding principles of value creation if future economic crises are to be defended. passive construction
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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip  [#permalink]

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23 Nov 2012, 21:10
souvik101990 wrote:
Thirteen states from all regions of the country announced a plan to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt emission limits that would be far stricter than the federal rules.

(A) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines in that they will jointly adopt
(B) to impose new controls on truck and bus engines' pollution by the joint adoption of
(C) to impose new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines by jointly adopting
(D) for imposing new controls on pollution from truck and bus engines, and jointly adopting
(E) for imposing new controls on truck and bus engine pollution in the joint adoption of

Try this one!

Hello,
May I know why B is not proper please?
"On truck and bus engines' pollution" isn t it implying both of them in the way it is written? (Of course, "on BOTH truck and bus engines' pollution" would make it a proper one)
Isn t it redundant to say "on truck engines' pollution and bus engines' pollution"?

Kind regards

R26

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Re: Companies, investors, and governments must relearn the guiding princip &nbs [#permalink] 23 Nov 2012, 21:10

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