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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
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UNSTOPPABLE12 wrote:
Hello experts,
I have a question regarding answer choices A and D , specifically, I understand that "at the time during" is inferior compared to the structure of A, what bothers me is the meaning issue that is mentioned in some posts, the way I see it both meanings make sense, in A) Tokugawa is associated with the prolonged peace while in D) Tokugawa is associated with the isolation, however meaning wise I think both are feasible, so my question is if "at the time during" was corrected in D, wouldn't D be considered correct?

Interesting question. While we'd normally caution against tweaking official options, in this case, I think it's worthwhile.

Let's take a look at your alternative version of (D):

Quote:
Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade during the Tokugawa shogunate, prolonged peace produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.

While this version is better, it's still problematic. "During the Tokugawa shogunate" seems to describe "world trade." That seems okay. But when is the prolonged peace happening? Also during the Tokugawa shogunate? Before? Shortly after? Without a modifier describing the peace, it isn't clear.

And while I wouldn't say this ambiguity is definitively wrong, it's muddy enough that I'm making a note of it and seeing whether another option clears up the confusion.

Contrast this with (A):

Quote:
(A) Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.

Now, because "during the Tokugawa shogunate" is modifying the "prolonged peace" and "at the time" is modifying "world trade," it's 100% clear that the two events are happening simultaneously. So while (D) might not contain a concrete error, it's not as clear or logical as (A), and (A) is still our winner.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
please someone explain why is option D wrong

also in option A is 'trade at the time,' correct??

what does the time in option A refer to?? which time? time of tokugawa shokugate or time of prolonged peace during tokugawa shokugate???
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
royrijit1 wrote:
Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.


(A) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate

(B) the relative isolation of Japan from world trade at the time and the Tokugawa shogunate’s prolonged peace, it

(C) being relatively isolated from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during Japan’s Tokugawa shogunate

(D) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time during the Tokugawa shogunate, prolonged peace

(E) its relative isolation from world trade then, prolonged peace in Japan during the Tokugawa shogunate


Verbal Question of The Day: Day 71: Sentence Correction


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Though little vague but I have question that's more inclined towards logical aspect.

Except B all others some or the other way say that 'the prolonged peace' produced expansion of commerce. How is it possible??

Rather i see that 'the prolonged peace' helped in expansion of commerce.
If my interpretation is wrong please share enlightening thoughts.

Anyone ..!!
Experts..!!
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
Hello experts,
I have a question regarding answer choices A and D , specifically, I understand that "at the time during" is inferior compared to the structure of A, what bothers me is the meaning issue that is mentioned in some posts, the way I see it both meanings make sense, in A) Tokugawa is associated with the prolonged peace while in D) Tokugawa is associated with the isolation, however meaning wise I think both are feasible, so my question is if "at the time during" was corrected in D, wouldn't D be considered correct?
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
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(A) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate

(D) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time during the Tokugawa shogunate, prolonged peace

I got a strong error in D. At the time and During both caries same meaning. So I eliminated D and went for A as the correct answer.
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
Hi AndrewN sir

A query:

What's the relation of "isolation during T shogunate" vs "peace during T shogunate"?

If D didn't have redundancy at the time and during the T shogunate.
then it would have been hard to eliminate D , is it?

Please suggest.
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
Interesting discussion on the redundancy of "at the time" in option choice D. I still believe D is a straight elimination on meaning even if you remove "at the time".

Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade during the Tokugawa shogunate, prolonged peace produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.


Despite X, Y

X = Japan's relative isolation from world trade during Tokugawa shogunate
Y = prolonged peace

There's nothing wrong in the answer choice from a grammatical standpoint but the comparison now is not as accurate. In option choice A, the comparison is between events in two different timelines "at the time" and "during Tokugawa shogunate" and hence, I feel, is more logical.

Would love to hear your views on this AndrewN.
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
Hi AndrewN - sorry for the follow up question but when you say the following,

“If (D) were written as proposed above, I would still argue that the prolonged peace does not seem to be a quality or characteristic of the time (of the Tokugawa shogunate)”

do you mean that the way sentence is structured two actions in two different time sequences are compared? I’m trying to confirm if what I was thinking originally was broadly along the same lines.

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
I have read somewhere that the use of possessive (apostrophe) for living things are preferred, but the use of possessive for non-living things are not preferred. For example, Amy's cat, John' box. For non-living things: the button of the shirt (not shirt's button), the icing of the cake (not cake's icing).

"Japan's relative isolation"

I have eliminated some answer choices using this as an absolute rule. I am confused.

Is it really a rule?

GMATNinja GMATNinjaTwo,
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
Hi AndrewN GMATNinja

One doubt again popped up in mind, Hope to get clarity on this.
Quote:
Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.


Quote:
(C) being relatively isolated from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during Japan’s Tokugawa shogunate

In C, 1st phrase ( Despite xx the time) wrongly modifies prolonged peace. It wrongly gives the meaning that prolonged peace was being relatively isolated from world at the time.
But in A , it does not wrongly modify prolonged peace?
Quote:
(A) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate

Why in A the meaning could be interpreted as : the prolonged peace was japan's relative isolated from world trade.
Wrongly modify.
Actually I rejected A with this approach in my first attempt.

2. Despite X was xxx, Y was yyy
I think X and Y should be of similar entities.
E.g. Despite He ran faster, I overcame him. ( He and I right comparison)
But I would not say: Despite not running fast, pain was not in his knees. I would prefer say: Despite not running fast, he xxx .( who was running fast - he: makes sense)
Similarly in A , whose Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time? Peace? - should not make sense.

Please clarify.
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
Here you go again, imSKR, picking apart finer details when the larger picture is a better guide. My responses below.

imSKR wrote:
Hi AndrewN GMATNinja

One doubt again popped up in mind, Hope to get clarity on this.
Quote:
Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.


Quote:
(C) being relatively isolated from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during Japan’s Tokugawa shogunate

In C, 1st phrase ( Despite xx the time) wrongly modifies prolonged peace. It wrongly gives the meaning that prolonged peace was being relatively isolated from world at the time.
But in A , it does not wrongly modify prolonged peace?
Quote:
(A) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate

Why in A the meaning could be interpreted as : the prolonged peace was japan's relative isolated from world trade.
Wrongly modify.
Actually I rejected A with this approach in my first attempt.

No, the opening phrase in (A) is not the same as the one in (C). Notice that in the original sentence, we have a subject within that phrase, Japan's relative isolation, whereas in (C), we delay that subject until the phrase has resolved (i.e. what was relatively isolated?). Furthermore, we can in (A) reasonably carry over our understanding that the sentence is commenting on Japan, even though it is not an absolute certainty. That is, since the opening phrase mentions the relative isolation of Japan and no other country within a despite framework, we are led to believe that the sentence after the comma will resolve some information pertaining to Japan. Again, (C) delays this vital information about location, so the sentence is not grounded in the same way by the time we cross the comma.

imSKR wrote:
2. Despite X was xxx, Y was yyy
I think X and Y should be of similar entities.
E.g. Despite He ran faster, I overcame him. ( He and I right comparison)
But I would not say: Despite not running fast, pain was not in his knees. I would prefer say: Despite not running fast, he xxx .( who was running fast - he: makes sense)
Similarly in A , whose Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time? Peace? - should not make sense.

Please clarify.

Where does this apparent rule of similar entities come from? Notice, too, that the original sentence does not adopt an -ing opening phrase. The contextual clues allow us to interpret the sentence in a similar way to the following:

1) Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, Japan's prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.

Or, if you prefer a more formal version:

2) Despite the relative isolation of Japan from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace in Japan during the Tokugawa shogunate produced an almost explosive expansion of commerce.

The takeaway is not to apply so-called rules too strictly, particularly when you might be missing questions because of them. Focus on the overall meaning based on the information available. A microscopic look is fine at times, but just make sure you do not zoom in too much and miss the larger view.

I hope that helps. Thank you for thinking to ask me.

- Andrew



Thanks AndrewN sir for recently pinpointing my weakness a number of times.
I will cautiously remember your words "A microscopic look is fine at times, but just make sure you do not zoom in too much and miss the larger view.- by ANdrewN"
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
daagh wrote:
In History, 'at that time' can refer to an era, and in this context an era that ran for nearly 300 years. It may be noted that the text talks about a prolonged peace and can it be logically expected that such an extended peace was obtained at a specific point of time?

Since the topic is from GMAT Prep, I hope you are not having any doubts about its veracity. Similarly, how we can take that D is superior when after all, D is also using "at that time", "during the shogunate" and "prolonged peace?

I can see your anxiety when you were confused about an official answer from GMATPrep. Normally people take them in their stride. Wish you good luck.


Dear daagh GMATNinja VeritasKarishma, Kindly explain " at the time" in detail. I am still not getting clarity, why A is correct?
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Re: Despite Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
Quote:
(A) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during the Tokugawa shogunate

Correct, there seems to be no issue here

Quote:
(B) the relative isolation of Japan from world trade at the time and the Tokugawa shogunate’s prolonged peace, it

The "it" after the comma makes no sense and there is no clarity in what it is referring to

Quote:
(C) being relatively isolated from world trade at the time, the prolonged peace during Japan’s Tokugawa shogunate

A clear modifier error here, Japan should've come after the comma

Quote:
(D) Japan’s relative isolation from world trade at the time during the Tokugawa shogunate, prolonged peace

At the time and during make it redundant

Quote:
(E) its relative isolation from world trade then, prolonged peace in Japan during the Tokugawa shogunate

The sentence starts with "its", again doesn't refer to anything

Answer is A
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Re: Despite Japans relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
yash88 wrote:
Please help why E is incorrect.


"its" doesn't have an antecedent
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Despite Japans relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
EducationAisle wrote:
1988achilles wrote:
Please help why E is incorrect.

Hi 1988achilles, a handy thing to remember is that when a pronoun appears as part of the introductory modifier, that pronoun refers to the noun immediately after the introductory modifier.

Hence, in E, its would erroneously refer to prolonged peace (whereas it should actually have referred to Japan).

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses this Pronoun issue, its application and examples in significant detail. If someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.


Hi EducationAisle ,Ashish .

I Pm'ed my email-id and got a pdf of the relevant section from your Team.

As far as I can remember, one more problematic area," The usage of THAT", has been nicely explained by you.
Its PDF is also available. (I think the same is attached in your answer to one of the official question. Sorry , I cannot recall the question)

Thank you for your contribution to this community and your amazing answers.

Disclaimer - I am not a student of Ashish or have taken any course from Education Aisle till this post
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Re: Despite Japans relative isolation from world trade at the time, the [#permalink]
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