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Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2013, 07:59
hi mani

let me try to answer your query

1) pronoun can refer back to nouns that are beyond commas even to an extent beyond periods.
2)" automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively that they were"
here the subject is the "automakers" the prepositional phrase "in order to conserve cash" acts as an intervening modifier that modifies "automakers" ...So the pronoun any which ways is ambiguios here...in anyways if it were to refer to a single noun, it should have been "automakers" the subject of the clause....

PS..I am still learning, so there can be flaws in my reasoning :)

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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Imo, there is no ambiguity about the pronoun – they - in any of the choices. Dividends cannot set dividends upon themselves. Nor for that matter no other plural noun can stand in competition with the subject of the sub- clause namely—automakers – for being the referent. In pronoun references, logic is more important than any other.

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were --- they were is wrong—it should be they did.
(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been ---- they have been is wrong ; it have been doing is the correct usage.
(C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends --- correct choice
(D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends ---wrong because of the faulty idiom expect x that as already pointed out
(E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends--- same as in D

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2013, 17:06
daagh wrote:
Imo, there is no ambiguity about the pronoun – they - in any of the choices. Dividends cannot set dividends upon themselves. Nor for that matter no other plural noun can stand in competition with the subject of the sub- clause namely—automakers – for being the referent. In pronoun references, logic is more important than any other.

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were --- they were is wrong—it should be they did.
(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been ---- they have been is wrong ; it have been doing is the correct usage.
(C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends --- correct choice
(D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends ---wrong because of the faulty idiom expect x that as already pointed out
(E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends--- same as in D

So my logic was correct? I didn't get how the pronoun was ambiguous in A and B they seem pretty set to me
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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daagh wrote:
Imo, there is no ambiguity about the pronoun – they - in any of the choices. Dividends cannot set dividends upon themselves. Nor for that matter no other plural noun can stand in competition with the subject of the sub- clause namely—automakers – for being the referent. In pronoun references, logic is more important than any other.

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were --- they were is wrong—it should be they did.
(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been ---- they have been is wrong ; it have been doing is the correct usage.
(C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends --- correct choice
(D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends ---wrong because of the faulty idiom expect x that as already pointed out
(E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends--- same as in D

Sorry how is B wrong?

Could someone also explain how B is wrong with regards to the parallism with the 'than'

As far as I'm concerned, B and C are equally ambiguous in their use of they. Not just gramatically logiically I feel like they are both equally ambiguous to their antecedents
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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DAAGH wrote :to set dividends more conservatively than they have been ---- they have been is wrong ; it have been doing is the correct usage.


this explanation is not right .the main reason why B is wrong is because the usage "they have been ...." requires the word "setting" ,which does not exist in the main clause

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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The previous post is exactly right about 'setting'. In order to omit 'setting' at the end of the sentence, that exact word must appear earlier in the sentence.

A word about pronoun ambiguity. The GMAT is surprisingly tolerant of pronoun ambiguity, so don't use it for eliminations. You will eliminate incorrect pronouns if they don't agree in number or it the reference appears to change during the sentence.

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 22 Mar 2013, 07:55
KyleWiddison wrote:
The previous post is exactly right about 'setting'. In order to omit 'setting' at the end of the sentence, that exact word must appear earlier in the sentence.

A word about pronoun ambiguity. The GMAT is surprisingly tolerant of pronoun ambiguity, so don't use it for eliminations. You will eliminate incorrect pronouns if they don't agree in number or it the reference appears to change during the sentence.

KW

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Hey that is a actually a great summary of pronoun ambiguity that I've learned from experience. I've learned to use it as a sort of last resorts in SC analysis

Anyways B ambiguity is still confusing me. So are you both saying, as I think you are that than is a sort of modifier and what's before and after it must be parallel? So because there is setting (or conversely no verb to be) before than, then after than must also have setting?

so two possible correct versions would look like this
to set dividends than they were set
some version of the verb to be than they were set

Am I understanding this correctly?
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 10 Feb 2014, 17:05
First look: Verb tense, comparative clause (more conservatively). In case you want to know more about a comparative clause, follow the link http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/phil/english/chairs/linguist/real/independent/eafrica/Diss_Diana/dissch4-5.htm

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were Wrong - ellipses is needed.

(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been Wrong - ellipses is needed.

(C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends Best answer - comparison clause is okay, and setting dividends is okay.

(D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends Wrong - Verb tense of "will be" and "were" are not consistent. Only the present tense can accompany a future tense in the same sentence.

(E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends Wrong - Verb tense is wrong, for the same reason above.

IMO C.

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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Meaning
it should be clear from the sentence that analysts expect automakers to be more conservative.
Only answer choice C does that

a) to set dividends more conservatively than they were – Incorrect. They is ambiguous.
b) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been - Incorrect. They is ambiguous.
c) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends - correct
d) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends - use of that is incorrect
e) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends – Incorrect. Same as D

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies’ common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively than they were.

a) to set dividends more conservatively than they were --- Xs expect Ys to set Ms ... than they were --> they can refer back to Ms or Ys. Pronoun ambiguity exist.
b) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been -- similar error -- they is referring to dividends or automakers
c) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends -- dividends moved at the end thus pronoun reference is better.
d) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends -- Ears say wrong --- that is awkward.
e) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends -- Ears say wrong --- that is awkward.
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies’ common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively that they were.



to set dividends more conservatively than they were
to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends





A) incorrect.

First, i thought that they is ambiguous, but it is not.Here they is referring to dividends. "analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than dividends were set".

if they would refer to automakers than the sentence would be" analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than automakers have been setting".

neither setting can be assumed nor have been is used.

b) incorrect.

they refers to dividends.

it can not refer to automakers because we need setting at the end. but we can only assume set,as setting is not used anywhere in the sentence.

C) correct.

they can only refer to automakers.

D) were is incorrect verb.They is not ambiguous.

e) in setting should be used. they is not ambiguous.



please correct me if i am wrong and also let me know if i missed anything.

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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SidKaria wrote:
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies’ common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively that they were.



to set dividends more conservatively than they were
to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends





A) incorrect.

First, i thought that they is ambiguous, but it is not.Here they is referring to dividends. "analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than dividends were set".

if they would refer to automakers than the sentence would be" analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than automakers have been setting".

neither setting can be assumed nor have been is used.

b) incorrect.

they refers to dividends.

it can not refer to automakers because we need setting at the end. but we can only assume set,as setting is not used anywhere in the sentence.

C) correct.

they can only refer to automakers.

D) were is incorrect verb.They is not ambiguous.

e) in setting should be used. they is not ambiguous.



please correct me if i am wrong and also let me know if i missed anything.


Hi Sid,

Thanks for posting your question here. :-)

Well, this sentence compares the automakers' two states in that they were conservative in the past and now they will have to be more conservative. Hence, the pronoun "they" in the original sentence refers to "automakers".

Now lets do the PoE:

Choice A - It is incorrect because in the clause " they were setting", the word "setting" is missing because this word is not mentioned anywhere.

Choice B - The same missing word "setting" makes this choice incorrect as well as we need the verb "have been setting".

Choice C - This is the correct answer as it conveys the comparison c;early.

Choice D - Your reasoning is correct.

Choice E - Your reasoning is correct.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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There is no pronoun issue with B; but there is a ellipsis issue in this option. Remember, in order to a ellipsis to occur, we need 2 alternative meanings in the same sentence.
In B, the comparison is between the level of conservationism in the past (it is not specified that this conservationism is regarding the setting of dividends) and the level of conservationism that the analysts expect now (with regard to the setting of dividends). But without specifing that the conservationism in the past was related to the setting of dividends, the comparison is ambiguous. And this is the reason why I think B is wrong.
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 04 Jul 2015, 23:12
egmat wrote:
SidKaria wrote:
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies’ common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively that they were.



to set dividends more conservatively than they were
to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends





A) incorrect.

First, i thought that they is ambiguous, but it is not.Here they is referring to dividends. "analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than dividends were set".

if they would refer to automakers than the sentence would be" analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than automakers have been setting".

neither setting can be assumed nor have been is used.

b) incorrect.

they refers to dividends.

it can not refer to automakers because we need setting at the end. but we can only assume set,as setting is not used anywhere in the sentence.

C) correct.

they can only refer to automakers.

D) were is incorrect verb.They is not ambiguous.

e) in setting should be used. they is not ambiguous.



please correct me if i am wrong and also let me know if i missed anything.


Hi Sid,

Thanks for posting your question here. :-)

Well, this sentence compares the automakers' two states in that they were conservative in the past and now they will have to be more conservative. Hence, the pronoun "they" in the original sentence refers to "automakers".

Now lets do the PoE:

Choice A - It is incorrect because in the clause " they were setting", the word "setting" is missing because this word is not mentioned anywhere.

Choice B - The same missing word "setting" makes this choice incorrect as well as we need the verb "have been setting".

Choice C - This is the correct answer as it conveys the comparison c;early.

Choice D - Your reasoning is correct.

Choice E - Your reasoning is correct.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
SJ


why is verb "were" wrong in choice D..?

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jul 2015, 13:30
sudi03 wrote:
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies' common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively that they were.

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were
(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
(C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
(D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
(E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends


I got struck between options B and C.
I chose B since I thought it is concise but it had pronoun ambiguity("they).
OA is C only.
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2015, 14:33
Expect X to be Y is the correct idiom.

Do not straight away rule out the options having "that". First read them. Options D and E have clear errors.

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 04 Aug 2016, 06:16
sudi03 wrote:
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies' common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively that they were.

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were
(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
(C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
(D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
(E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends



IMO opinion, correct answer is C. setting the dividends is an ongoing activity and experts predict that it will continue in future. "Have been" correctly signifies it.

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2016, 10:59
riyazgilani wrote:
egmat wrote:
SidKaria wrote:
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies’ common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively that they were.



to set dividends more conservatively than they were
to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends





A) incorrect.

First, i thought that they is ambiguous, but it is not.Here they is referring to dividends. "analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than dividends were set".

if they would refer to automakers than the sentence would be" analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than automakers have been setting".

neither setting can be assumed nor have been is used.

b) incorrect.

they refers to dividends.

it can not refer to automakers because we need setting at the end. but we can only assume set,as setting is not used anywhere in the sentence.

C) correct.

they can only refer to automakers.

D) were is incorrect verb.They is not ambiguous.

e) in setting should be used. they is not ambiguous.



please correct me if i am wrong and also let me know if i missed anything.


Hi Sid,

Thanks for posting your question here. :-)

Well, this sentence compares the automakers' two states in that they were conservative in the past and now they will have to be more conservative. Hence, the pronoun "they" in the original sentence refers to "automakers".

Now lets do the PoE:

Choice A - It is incorrect because in the clause " they were setting", the word "setting" is missing because this word is not mentioned anywhere.

Choice B - The same missing word "setting" makes this choice incorrect as well as we need the verb "have been setting".

Choice C - This is the correct answer as it conveys the comparison c;early.

Choice D - Your reasoning is correct.

Choice E - Your reasoning is correct.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
SJ


why is verb "were" wrong in choice D..?



Because the action is still happening and not over !! I hope this helps !!

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2016, 09:59
ongste wrote:
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies’ common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively than they were.

a) to set dividends more conservatively than they were
b) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been
c) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends
d) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends
e) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends

I was confused by this one!
Will post OA later :)


Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than they were.

'were' here sounds little awkward because 'setting' has been omitted. In comparison questions, a word can be omitted only when it is mentioned somewhere in the sentence. The word 'setting' is nowhere mentioned and thus can't be assumed that it would follow were or have been in choices A and B respectively.

The correct idiomatic usage is 'expect.....to' and NOT 'expect........that'.
On this basis only choices D and E can be omitted.

Therefore choice C is correct and makes complete sense.

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2017, 20:42
I read all the explanation, but I still could not understand why choice B is incorrect? Ellipses are not preferred when we have another correct choice that seems to be wordy?

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have   [#permalink] 22 Feb 2017, 20:42

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