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Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2017, 21:46
AR15J wrote:
I read all the explanation, but I still could not understand why choice B is incorrect? Ellipses are not preferred when we have another correct choice that seems to be wordy?


Even I opted for B. But following post from e-gmat will hopefully clear your doubt.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/how-far-elli ... l#p1198393
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 23 Feb 2017, 11:34
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AR15J wrote:
I read all the explanation, but I still could not understand why choice B is incorrect? Ellipses are not preferred when we have another correct choice that seems to be wordy?



In option A and B, the pronoun "they" refers to "automakers" (NOT "dividends") by virtue of parallelism*. Thus option A and B do not make sense: "...than automakers were" / "..than automakers have been" are both wrong because there isn't a possible word that is omitted (after "were"/"have been") occurring already in the sentence. The correct word that could follow is "setting", but this word does not occur in the sentence. Omission is not allowed from the second element of a parallel structure if the word does not already occur in the first element. Here the first element has the word "set", not "setting". Thus both options A and B are wrong.

[*If there are two antecedents of a pronoun which is the subject of a clause, then the subject pronoun refers to subject noun in another clause in the sentence (rather than a non-subject noun).]
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 23 Feb 2017, 23:39
Thanks RD and Sayantanc2k,

The below OG question confused me.



Traffic safety officials predict that drivers will be equally likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as the current one.

A. equally likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as
B. equally likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are
C. equally likely that they will exceed the proposed speed limit as
D. as likely that they will exceed the proposed speed limit as
E. as likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are.

Correct answer is E. When we exapand choice E

Traffic safety officials predict that drivers will be as likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are exceeding the current one.

here "to exceed" is replaced by "exceeding" in the later part of the sentence. Please help !
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 23 Feb 2017, 23:56
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AR15J wrote:
Traffic safety officials predict that drivers will be equally likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as the current one.

A. equally likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as
B. equally likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are
C. equally likely that they will exceed the proposed speed limit as
D. as likely that they will exceed the proposed speed limit as
E. as likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are.

Correct answer is E. When we exapand choice E

Traffic safety officials predict that drivers will be as likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are exceeding the current one.

here "to exceed" is replaced by "exceeding" in the later part of the sentence. Please help !
Keep in mind that there is no full stop at the end of the last option.

Option E does not give us Traffic safety officials predict that drivers will be as likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are exceeding the current one.

Instead, option E says
Traffic safety officials predict that drivers will be as likely to exceed the proposed speed limit as they are likely to exceed the current one.

Why did you go for the first one?
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 22 Aug 2017, 08:41
I was between B and C and chose B. After reading all the explanations above, the only fault in B i think is that the sentence is incomplete.
They in option C also could refer to automakers or analysts like option B. The only difference is that in option C, the sentence is complete.
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 03 Oct 2017, 05:34
IMO: It is important to understand what the GMAT tries to test here: namely, Comparison!
The meaning behind is that analysts expect automakers to be more conservative OR to set more conservatively than they were or did in the past.
Now we need to find the right comparisons components (person - person or verb-verb)

As above, D) and E) are out because of idiom expression: expect XY to VERB

A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were -> wrong comparison: verb - person; DID would be correct

B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been (setting) ->verb - verb; could be right comparison, but the verb tense (present perfect progressive) would be wrong! So the main reason why B) is wrong is because the Verb Tense is not justified. (Present Perfect Progressive emphasize that the automakers are still doing the action... This distorts the meaning!)

This is why C) is correct was it compares person-person.


Hope it helps!
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2017, 16:18
RMD007 wrote:
AR15J wrote:
I read all the explanation, but I still could not understand why choice B is incorrect? Ellipses are not preferred when we have another correct choice that seems to be wordy?


I think it is a matter of meaning... conservative must refer to automaker, not dividends.
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 16 Oct 2017, 01:26
ongste wrote:
Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies’ common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively than they were.

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were

(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been

(C) to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends

(D) that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends

(E) that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends



doesnt luk like pronoun issue...
purely based on ellipsis..
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 03 Feb 2018, 23:06
Hi Experts,
I do understand the role that ellipsis is playing in this question. However, I am not able to understand what is required to repair option A.
I did select option C, but I want to understand ellipsis in more detail; hence I would like to understand why do we need action verb to repair option A.
One of the post specifies that we require action verb - did/have done (refer to below)

several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively that they were. Were can not work, it has to be do, have done or did because first part of comparision has action so we need [action not linking] verb.

Can you please resolve the doubt?

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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 04 Feb 2018, 21:11
nikhilbhide wrote:
I am not able to understand what is required to repair option A.

Hi nikhilbhide, the core part of option A is:

Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than they were.

Since this involves Ellipsis, the most logical way to complete option A would be:

Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than they (automakers) were (conservative in setting dividends).

Now, the issue becomes clear. The above sentence is comparing:

i) How the automakers will set dividends (in future) Vs

ii) How conservative the automakers were in the past

This is not an apples-to apples comparison. An apples-to apples comparison would be:

i) How the automakers will set dividends (in future) Vs How the automakers set dividends in the past

Or

ii) How conservative the automakers will be (in future) Vs How conservative the automakers were in the past

In other words, we can’t have a mix-n-match.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses Comparisons, their application and examples in significant detail. If someone is interested, PM me your email-id; I can mail the corresponding section.
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2018, 05:04
GMATNinja egmat VeritasPrepKarishma

Is usage of 'that' incorrect in (E) ?
What is subtle difference between - to set dividends - vs - in setting dividends - as in (C)?
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Re: Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jun 2018, 23:04
daagh wrote:
In this issue, whatever the structure, the pronoun they can refer only to automakers. It is only they who can set dividends for their companies and not the analysts nor any other plural words such as dividends. So we can rest at store all doubts about the pronoun reference.

More importantly, the underlying principle here as a previous writer has pointed out is the rule of ellipsis that disqualifies the choices A and B.

(A) to set dividends more conservatively than they were( in setting dividends )
(B) to set dividends more conservatively than they have been ( in setting dividends)

The phrase in the bracket is the elliptical understanding; an important requirement of such a supposition is that the phrase that is so understood, must be existent somewhere before in the same sentence and the ellipsis is resorted more for brevity than for anything else. One can see that the phrase –in setting dividends – is not available verbatim in the previous part of the first two choices. That is the reason, C, which mentions –in setting dividends- explicitly, wins over the other choices.



I could not understand the last paragraph. Could you please explain it once again?

What is elliptical understanding, what is the supposition here?

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Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have [#permalink]

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New post 17 Jun 2018, 03:57
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manimgoindowndown wrote:
Could someone please explain how the they, in choice A and B are ambiguous? To me they are right next to a the noun they are referring to, and automakers is seperated by a comma.

Many comparisons employ ELLIPSIS: the omission of words whose presence is implied.
When words are omitted, the intended meaning must be crystal clear.
An ellipsis that allows for more than one logical interpretation is not viable.
A and B are incorrect because each allows for more than one logical interpretation.

Case 1: they = the automakers
A) Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than the automakers were [setting dividends].
B) Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than the automakers have been [setting dividends].

Case 2: they = the dividends
A) Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than the dividends were [set].
B) Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than the dividends have been [set].

Since Cases 1 and 2 are both logical interpretations, eliminate A and B.

Quote:
The only doubt in retrospect I have about B is I feel like the sentence leaves at an incomplete thought (missing 'setting' as the last word)

RULE:
A participle (VERBed or VERBing) may be omitted only if appears IN THE SAME FORM earlier in the sentence.
Answer choice B, Case 1:
Several industry analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than the automakers have been [setting dividends].
In Case 1, the participle in brackets -- setting -- is omitted but implied.
Because this participle does not appear earlier in the sentence, it may not be omitted in the clause in red -- another reason to eliminate B.

Quote:
I am not understanding how the 'they' in C is any less ambiguous than in A or B

In A and B, they is preceded by two viable antecedents (automakers and dividends).
As a result, A and B each allow for more than one logical interpretation.
C: Several industry analysts expect automakers to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends.
Here, they is preceded by only ONE logical antecedent -- automakers -- so the intended referent for they is crystal clear.
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