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Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law

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03 Sep 2013, 21:20
ramannanda9 wrote:
TGC wrote:
As my doubt has not been answered in the previous posts, I am posting the same here.

As per MGMAT SC Guide, when we look at SV agreement we avoid the modifiers generally(Subordinate Clauses/ING/ED/OF).

However , when the subject is Quantity/fractions/SANAM(some-any-none-all-more/most) , we see the OF-CONSTRUCTION to decide on the verb.

So, in this question as the subject is "Proportion" we have to see the OF-construction which is PLURAL .
So Why Option(B). is not correct.

By solving this question I have realized that there is a deviation in MGMAT SC guide from what GMAC thinks.

Rgds,
TGC !

I do not think there is a conflict here in the sentence.

Try to think of it as a simple sentence. For example:

The proportion of students who have passed has not increased. Here sanam pronoun is properly being used so have correctly agrees with students, But proportion should be singular.
or
the proportion of students have/has not increased.

I don't think that you got my query.

Who is a referent of students so definitely it will have a plural verb.

However what MGMAT SC Guide states is that when a quantity/fraction/SANAM is there as the case here then we look at the OF-CONTRUCTION to decide upon the VERB for THIS SUBJECT.

And here "proportion" is a FRACTION , so why it has to agree with SINGULAR VERB?
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05 Jan 2014, 12:10
Nsentra wrote:
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent
(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably
(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably
(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent
(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

Official Guide 12 Question

 Question: 43 Page: 42 Difficulty: 600

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Video Explanations:

Ah.. The beauty of having multiple choices! It initially totally flew over my head that proportion is our subject and thus needs a singular verb. But as I read C, I noticed it.

A and B are gone since "have not" does not function with proportion

C) the proportion has not risen is correct.

D) "yet" is erroneously used. We introduce the sentence with despite, thus we cannot use "yet" in this case because that distorts the intended meaning. "Despite" acts as a contrasting element, so does "yet", thus yet is reduntant so we eliminate D/E.

Therefore, C is correct
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01 Jul 2015, 03:29
IMO C is correct
The proportion is singular and so:
The Proportion ... has not risen is correct SVA
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02 Jul 2015, 01:39
I do not like this question though it is official.

normaly, group noun is considered single as itis in this problem. but group noun can be considered plural and go with plural verb. we choose C because normaly group noun is considered single . this is why I do not like this problem. in many og questions, group noun can go with plural verb.

the testing of "proportion" as a single noun is not logic test and is not testing of a rule.
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20 Aug 2015, 03:20
proportion of + count noun
is normally in singular

but can be in plural

if gmat test us this point, gmat test purely grammartical point, which is not gmat intent of gmat today

this question is old , right?
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21 Sep 2015, 00:24
'Despite' is sufficient to bring in the contrast. "Despite yet' is redundant.
A proportion is singular and hence needs has instead of have.

Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent 'have' is incorrect

(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably 'have' is incorrect

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably has is the correct usage. Pls note that the auxiliary very 'are' refers to judges and partners

(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent Redundant

(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably Redundant
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23 Sep 2015, 00:28
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Nsentra wrote:
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent
(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably
(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably
(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent
(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

Official Guide 12 Question

 Question: 43 Page: 42 Difficulty: 600

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Video Explanations:

Hi Harley1980

Thanks,
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23 Sep 2015, 03:08
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rohan89 wrote:

Hi Harley1980

Thanks,
Rohan

Hi Rohan,

Option D and option E have the problem of redundancy.
We should not use both yet and despite in the same sentence. Despite is in itself sufficient to bring the contrast

Options A and B have a problem of S-V agreement. Hence we are left with option C.

Does this help?
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20 Sep 2016, 03:54
D and E are wrong because both have 'yet' which does not go with despite.
B is wrong because it changes the meaning. We are not talking about proportion of women judges but of judges whi are women.
A is too wordy. C is a better choice than A so C is correct.

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20 Sep 2016, 10:24
why is has not risen correct. I know (now) the subject is proportion but i thought we have to use plural form if there is and. In this case we have two things, judges and partners. Shouldn't we use have been?
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08 Mar 2017, 05:14
but it is wordy as 'who' should follow the noun which is women not the law firms ,
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08 Mar 2017, 05:19
ktkl68 wrote:
why is has not risen correct. I know (now) the subject is proportion but i thought we have to use plural form if there is and. In this case we have two things, judges and partners. Shouldn't we use have been?

hi
look why you can't use plural verb because the clause after comma has proportion as a singular noun so you have to follow the singular verb has, and also here the subject is proportion not women and partners . go to the basics of the sc guide you need to work more

hope it helps
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01 Aug 2017, 06:03

Isn't "who" modifying "major law firms", in A and C?
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01 Aug 2017, 06:51
rekhabishop wrote:

Isn't "who" modifying "major law firms", in A and C?

Hey, look if we follow conciseation rule, then c is better over A, [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

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01 Aug 2017, 06:57
rekhabishop wrote:

Isn't "who" modifying "major law firms", in A and C?

Hi rekhabishop, who as a relative pronoun, can only modify persons.

Since major law firms is (obviously) not a person, who cannot modify major law firms.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana has a handy reference for Relative Pronoun usage. Have attached the corresponding section of the book, for your reference.
Attachments

Pronouns.pdf [35.02 KiB]

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01 Aug 2017, 07:22
nks2611 wrote:
rekhabishop wrote:

Isn't "who" modifying "major law firms", in A and C?

Hey, look if we follow conciseation rule, then c is better over A, [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

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But that should be the last principle, right? It doesn't take precedence over grammatical rules. I just feel that "who" is not modifying the correct nouns.
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01 Aug 2017, 10:30
Expert's post
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The grammar underlying the using of relative pronouns is that a relative pronoun can modify a slightly distant noun if it is not able to modify the word before it if logic doesn't permit and if the intervening phrase is essentially defining the eligible noun. (called a critical mission modifier by MGMAT)

Now let us look at choice C.

(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably ---
1. Logic does not permit the inanimate firms to be related to 'who'
2. 'at major law firms' is defining the noun 'partners' as the practitioners of law at these firms are called technically 'partners'
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01 Aug 2017, 14:39
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rekhabishop wrote:

But that should be the last principle, right? It doesn't take precedence over grammatical rules. I just feel that "who" is not modifying the correct nouns.

Hello rekhabishop,

Although you have already gotten quite few explanations for your doubt, I would just like to add my two cents. It might just help.

It is true that who and other relative pronoun modifiers modify the preceding noun entity. However, it is not necessary that this preceding noun entity will always be a single or double word noun entity. These modifier can also modify the preceding noun phrase.

This is what we see happening in Choice A and C of this official sentence.

In these choices, the noun modifier who modifies not the preceding noun word law firms but the preceding noun phrase judges and partners at major law firms.

There are two reasons for such modification:

Firstly, who cannot be used to refer to inanimate object. So who logically refers to judges and partners.

Secondly, this phrase at major law firms cannot be placed anywhere else in the sentence without violating the intended meaning. Since at major law firms is meant to modify judges and partners, at major law firms has to be written close to this entity. This is the reason why who can jump over at major law firms to refer to judges and partners.

There are many official sentences in which noun modifiers modify a slightly far-away noun.

For more details, explanations, and official examples, please review our very famous article named Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun in the following link:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-135868.html

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
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01 Aug 2017, 14:57
Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law school and passing bar examinations, the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent.

Quote:
(D) yet the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms has not risen to a comparable extent
(E) yet the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

'Yet' is redundant. 'Despite' already indicates that a change in direction will follow post the subordinate clause. Both are OUT.

Quote:
(A) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women have not risen to a comparable extent
(B) the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms have not risen comparably

The Subject is 'The proportion' - Singular
Main verb is 'have not' - Plural
Subject Verb Disagreement. Both are OUT!

Quote:
(C) the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women has not risen comparably

'The proportion' and 'has not' - Subject Verb Agreement
'who' correctly refers to 'the proportion of judges and partners'.

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01 Aug 2017, 15:58
jagveerbrar wrote:
ykaiim wrote:
This is from OG12. OE is:

Agreement; Rhetorical construction

When a number of plural nouns appear in phrases between a singular subject and the verb, it can be easy to overlook the true subject of the verb. Here, judges, partners, firms, and women all occur between the singular subject, proportion, and the verb, which should also be singular, has risen. Concise expression is particularly important in a long construction; to a comparable extent may be more concisely expressed as comparably.

A Plural verb, have risen, does not agree with the singular subject, proportion.

B Have risen does not agree with proportion; here, women applies only to judges, not to partners at major law firms.

C Correct. In this sentence, has risen agrees with proportion, and comparably is more
concise than to a comparable extent. The modifying clause who are women follows
(1) judges and (2) partners at major law firms as closely as is possible given the content of the sentence; this positioning has the virtue of being clear in its meaning.

D The contrast has already been introduced by despite, so the addition of yet is illogical and ungrammatical; to a comparable extent is wordy.

E Despite introduces the contrast; adding yet is illogical and results in an ungrammatical construction.

I don't understand how "women" in "the proportion of judges and partners at major law firms who are women" refers to both judges AND partners.

and how "women" in "the proportion of women judges and partners at major law firms" refers ONLY to judges.

After all, in both the sentences, 'AND' connects judges and partners.
I would really appreciate if somebody could clarify.

a prepositional phrase such as : at major law firms can come between the subject and the relative pronoun qualifier such as who here.
Re: Despite the increasing number of women graduating from law   [#permalink] 01 Aug 2017, 15:58

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