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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 07 Oct 2016, 23:35
mikemcgarry wrote:
mun23 wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been round all over north America ,they are named for the new Mexico site where whey were first discovered in 1932

A) Even though Clovis points , spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over north America, they are named for the new Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.
B) Although named for the new Mexico site where fist discovered in 1932. Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over north America .
C) Named for the new Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932. Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over north America .
D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces ,Clovis points , even though named for the new Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over north America .
E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them ,they have been found all over north America ,and named for the new Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932

I am confused between A & B. Whats problem with B?

I'm happy to help. :-)

Of course, this is OG13 SC#96.

As a general rule, a subordinate conjunction, such as "although" or "even though" or "while", should be followed by a full [noun] + [verb] structure. The GMAT doesn't like following a subordinate conjunction with simply a participial phrase, such as the participial phrase "named for the new Mexico site where fist discovered in 1932". It's tricky, because this structure is quite common in colloquial English ....
While sleeping, I ...
Although wasting time, he ....
Because already tired, she ...

Any of those might pass in colloquial speech, but they would be 100% wrong on the GMAT Sentence Correction. This is the problem with (B).



Hi mike, I once excerpted following usage of (al)though, I am confused when read above,
Quote:
If you just have "(al)though + adjective", it should come in one of the following 2 places:
1/
In front of the entire sentence
(Al)though exhausted from work, Sarah still played with the dogs for two hours when she got home.
2/
After the subject (usually I've seen just "though" here, not "although")
The two men, though not trained as pilots, were able to land the plane safely.

appreciate if you can help to clarify further.


and I cross off B because "named for..." is not adjective, but adverbial phrase, it is break "1/", please confirm whether my approach is valid?

thanks a lot
have a nice day
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 30 Oct 2016, 08:25
SPLIT1) MEANING. "THEY WERE DISCOVERED" = DONE. VS "THEY HAVE BEEN DISCOVERED" = CONTINUES. WHEN IT REFERS TO 1932 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A DONE DEAL. B,C AND E ARE OUT. 1932 IS THE PAST AND IT IS DONE.

SPLIT2) TRAP OF USING PARTICIPLES INSTEAD OF USING FULL S + V IN A SENTENCE."ALTHOUGH NAMED" IS A PARTICIPLE SO IT IS OUT. B AND D ARE OUT.

SPLIT3) THE WORD "WHILE" IS NOT A CONTRASTING WORD, WE NEED A CONTRASTING WORD. E IF OUT.

SPLIT4) THERE IS NO CONTRASTING WORD IN C. WE NEED A CONTRASTING WORD. C IS OUT.

SPLIT 5) "EVEN THOUGH, ...BUT..." IS NONSENSICAL, INCORRECT GRAMMAR. D IS OUT.

SPLIT 6) THE MEANING ISSUE IN B. IN THE FIRST PART YOU ARE STARTING TO CONTRAST THE NAME, AND THE SECOND PART YOU JUMP TO DEFINE IT.... INSTEAD AFTER THE COMMA YOU SHOULD CONTRAST RIGHT AWAY. THE STRUCTURE CHANGES THE MEANING IN B. OUT.

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 02 Mar 2017, 01:48
I have read the pronoun related posts and agree with you. I read one post of yours-

https://gmatclub.com/forum/the-stars-some-of-them-at-tremendous-speeds-are-in-motion-54399-40.html#p1733791

Both "they" and "them" refer to "stars". A basic rule about pronouns is that all "they","them","their" and "theirs" must refer to the same antecedent. ( So is true for all he/him/his or she/her/hers etc.)


My query is not that the usage of the pronoun is ambiguous in this case. My query is - why "they" and "their" refers to different entities.

As I understand the meaning of the sentence, clovis point is subset of spear point, cloint and spear point are different, then why "their" refers to spear points while "they" refers to clovis points?


Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 02 Mar 2017, 07:58
KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where
first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.


I have a question of choice C
it is clear that "have been..." in this choice is wrong.
but there is another error.
"named.... 1932" work as an adverb for main clause and,so, is not logic for this capacity.
if we changer the place of this phrase into"

Clovis point, "named for.... 1932", have been found....

in this sentence, "named for..." work as an adjective and , so, logic.

in conclusion, the change of the place of a phrase make its grammatical role changen

am I correct? please, help
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 04 Mar 2017, 02:34
victory47 wrote:
KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where
first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.


I have a question of choice C
it is clear that "have been..." in this choice is wrong.
but there is another error.
"named.... 1932" work as an adverb for main clause and,so, is not logic for this capacity.
if we changer the place of this phrase into"

Clovis point, "named for.... 1932", have been found....

in this sentence, "named for..." work as an adjective and , so, logic.

in conclusion, the change of the place of a phrase make its grammatical role changen

am I correct? please, help


A modifier can be placed before or after the noun it refers to. In option C "named for .. " is placed before and in your example it is placed after the noun "Clovis points". In both it works as adjective for that noun.

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 26 Apr 2017, 22:37
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

Meaning:
Even though spear points are found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site. Why? Because they were first discovered there.

Even though presents a contrast and this contrast must be maintained in the correct choice as well. Otherwise the essence of sentence is gone.


Clovis points........have been found
They (clovis points).........are named
They (clovis points)........were discovered

No ambiguity in pronoun usage.
The tenses are also correct and show sequencing clearly.

No error in the sentence.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2017, 06:38
ezzo wrote:
Hi,
Can you please help me identify the referent for "their" in the first sentence as I eliminated it thinking of pronoun ambiguity.


Hi,

The antecedent of 'their' in the first sentence is Clovis points only. I know you are confused between Clovis Points and spear points. Notice, as per the meaning of the sentence both are the same. So, even if you say their could refer to spear points, it would mean the same as if it refers to Clovis points. :)

Let me know in case of any concern.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2017, 07:19
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2017, 07:32
abhimahna wrote:
ezzo wrote:
Hi,
Can you please help me identify the referent for "their" in the first sentence as I eliminated it thinking of pronoun ambiguity.


Hi,

The antecedent of 'their' in the first sentence is Clovis points only. I know you are confused between Clovis Points and spear points. Notice, as per the meaning of the sentence both are the same. So, even if you say their could refer to spear points, it would mean the same as if it refers to Clovis points. :)

Let me know in case of any concern.


This explanation was really helpful. Thanks a ton:)

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2017, 19:28
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.
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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jun 2017, 13:45
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.
(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932. - CORRECT
(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America. - meaning change as it compares origin of the name of Clovis Point with its physical ch/s instead of it being found all over NA
(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America. - "have been" is present perfect which should not be used when time is specified
(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America. - "Clovis points" does not have a verb, so incomplete sentence
(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932. - "While" introduced physical ch/s of Clovis points however it goes on to compare incorrectly with "found all over NA"
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jul 2017, 04:31
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been
found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in
1932.

Sentence wants to clarify the contrast between two features of Clovis points :
- They are found all over North America, yet they are named after the New Mexican site where they were first discovered.
This has been correctly done in option A itself.

A. Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have
been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first
discovered in 1932.
Correct

B. Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear
points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.
Here the contrast is shown between “named for the New Mexico site” and “are spear points of longitudinal grooves”
Which is not the intended contrast & meaning…

C. Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear
points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.
No contrast at all in this sentence..
Also, “have been discovered” is incorrect tense...a simple past tense is preferred

D. Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though
named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North
America.
Here the contrast is reversed…It says although they are named after Mexican sites, they are found all over North America..
If this is NOT good enough reason to reject this option, then , the Simple past tense “were found” is not correct as well..It says Clovis points are not found any more in the North America…

E. While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they
have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been
first discovered in 1932.
Again incorrect contrast between “Clovis points are spear points” and “they have been found all over North America”.
Also, “have been discovered” is incorrect tense...a simple past tense is preferred
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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 27 Sep 2017, 16:41
KC wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review 2016

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 106
Page: 693

Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.



Correct Answer is A.
I'll focus on the takeaways from this question.

Firstly, Why not C?

- "Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932....": Use of present participle (or past participle for that matter!) is incorrect here. Had it been simple past [i.e. ..were first discovered..], it would have avoided the tense related issue.

- Original sentence asks for a contrast, which is not found in C

Note to self

Takeaway 1 :

Just an observation, any question with contrast will always have a grammatically correct/almost correct contender option, missing contrast.
Always look out for the non-contrasting contender, and decide whether you need a contrast.


Takeaway 2 :

If I need to work really hard to make a participle tense fit, chances are, I am picking the wrong answer. As a rule of thumb, "Discovery" in a question, takes simple tense.


Takeaway 3 :

Named for and Named after : both are correct

My post, created for my own benefit, perhaps a little trivial for all you advanced students. So go ahead and ignore :)

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2017, 02:34
mihir0710 wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been
found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in
1932.





Hello mihir0710,

I know I am quite late to complement you for our analysis of this official question. Nonetheless, better late than never. :-)

You have actually done a brilliant job in analyzing each and every answer choice for this question. So keep the great work.


I would just like to add my two cents about rejecting Choice D on solid grounds.


Quote:
D. Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though
named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North
America.
Here the contrast is reversed…It says although they are named after Mexican sites, they are found all over North America..
If this is NOT good enough reason to reject this option, then , the Simple past tense “were found” is not correct as well..It says Clovis points are not found any more in the North America…



The grammatical reason (incorrect verb tense) is definitely correct to reject Choice D. However, there is another verb related error that makes choice D incorrect.

This choice uses the expression but were found. Presence of the connector but tells us that there is a list in this sentence whose last parallel entity is the verb were found. Now this verb associates with the subject Clovis points.

However, there is no other verb before were found that associates with Clovis points to form a list with were found. So the subject Clovis points misses a verb in Choice D.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal [#permalink]

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New post 30 Sep 2017, 13:26
Hey egmat

Apart from all other errors in Option B, I have another concern

Quote:
(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.


is the usage of and (highlighted) above correct in option b?

Clovis points
1. are spear points ....
2. have been found ....

Is the usage of parallel marker "and" correct in Option B? According to me they are correct per the meaning of the sentence

Waiting for your reply. Thanks
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal   [#permalink] 30 Sep 2017, 13:26

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