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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   24 Mar 2020, 07:27
GMATNinja wrote:
lnm87 wrote:
I get the points and explanations given.
So, while presenting a contrast or a comparison between two things needs to be parallel i.e. apple vic-a-vis apple contrast/comparison.

Hence, can I write option B as:
Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America.

Is that correct.? If not why?

I understand that if it is correct two options would be correct but just trying to be clear.

I think you have the right idea here... you are saying that the Clovis points are NAMED after a specific state (New Mexico) even though they have been FOUND all over the continent. That makes sense.

But, in general, I wouldn't waste many brain cells trying to analyze modified versions of answer choices. Your job isn't to label each sentence as "wrong" or "right"... your job is to pick the best choice out of the five available options. Looking at modified versions of answer choices changes that job completely. :)


GMATNinja
First, Many thanks for taking time out to answer my query.
Both 'comparison' and 'construction' questions have ruined my preparations so formatting original options gives kind of a satisfaction. :)

Next time i will ask a better question.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   01 Dec 2020, 11:53
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

This question checks Nouns modifier and intended meaning. There is a property of something, but comparison is done with something else.

(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.-> Okay. Clovis Points spear points..., 2nd one "Clovis Points have been found...", 3rd one "Clovis Points have been found...", and 4th one "Clovis Points are named for the...". Where talks about New Mexico Site, which makes sense. So far, so good. Let's keep it.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America. -> Intended meaning is asking for comparison of "found all over North America" with "named for the New Mexico site". IN this option, we are comparing "named for the New Mexico site" with "spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped". It is not correct.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America. ->Just! do look at verb tense error "have been first discovered in 1932". Easy pick!

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.-> Spear points "but were found all over North America". It doesn't make sense. It should be Clovis points.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.->Just! do look at verb tense error "have been first discovered in 1932". Easy pick!

So, I think A. :)
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   12 Feb 2021, 12:41
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.


(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932. Correct

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

-“where first discovered” is wrong and particularly devoid of any meaning
-“and” in “and have been found” is wrong…there’s no need for a conjunction there

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America. X

-“have been first discovered” is wrong…there’s no need to mix the present perfect with the past tense…the past tense ‘where they were first discovered’ is sufficient

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America. X

-‘where first discovered’ is wrong
-‘but’ is an unnecessary conjunction

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932. X

-‘and named for the…’ is wrong …again you don’t need that conjunction
-‘where they have been first discovered’ is wrong
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   30 Aug 2021, 13:09
Quote:
(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.


daagh AjiteshArun EMPOWERgmatVerbal egmat

While I understood the main flaw with this option, the highlighted part of above sentence caught my attention.

Isnt this part missing a pronoun ? Is this kind of usage correct ?

'named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932'
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   30 Aug 2021, 13:21
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SD0715

You're right; we don't want to say "where first discovered." I can use a similar construction as an adverbial modifier, but it doesn't make sense here, and I don't think any version with "where" would work. But I could say something like "When first discovered, the drug appeared promising."
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   30 Aug 2021, 17:20
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SD0715 wrote:
Quote:
(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.


daagh AjiteshArun EMPOWERgmatVerbal egmat

While I understood the main flaw with this option, the highlighted part of above sentence caught my attention.

Isnt this part missing a pronoun ? Is this kind of usage correct ?

'named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932'


Great question, SD0715!

While it's not grammatically wrong to say "named for the New Mexico site where first discovered," it's not the way most of us write or speak anymore. It's a bit "old fashioned" to leave out pronouns like that. So yes, if you were writing something like this for your own work, you could absolutely add in the words "they were" to make it clearer (and a bit more modern) for your readers.

We hope that helps! Keep tagging us at EMPOWERgmatVerbal with any more questions you run into! :cool: :thumbsup:
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   06 Nov 2021, 18:41
I know C) is wrong because it uses the past perfect "have been first discovered in 1932" for an action that has no effect/continuity in the present as indicated by "in 1932".

Supposing that "discovered in 1932" was used in C), can I say that C) is wrong because the 2 independent clauses of the sentence are linked with a comma and no conjunction ?

Thanks




KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named
for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.


(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.



Show Spoiler
DISCOVER AMER - Page 75

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=xBgAC7rNW5YC
LITTLE CHARLES E - 1995 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions

This area is called a “land bridge,” although, at a thousand miles wide from north to south, it was more than just a bridge; ... spear points of an unusual design were found, characterized by longitudinal grooves, or flutes, chipped onto the faces of the points. ... Although they have been found all over North America, Clovis points are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

Attachment:
10.jpg

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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   07 Nov 2021, 00:11
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Naptiste wrote:
I know C) is wrong because it uses the past perfect "have been first discovered in 1932" for an action that has no effect/continuity in the present as indicated by "in 1932".

Supposing that "discovered in 1932" was used in C), can I say that C) is wrong because the 2 independent clauses of the sentence are linked with a comma and no conjunction ?

Thanks




KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named
for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.


(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.



Show Spoiler
DISCOVER AMER - Page 75

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=xBgAC7rNW5YC
LITTLE CHARLES E - 1995 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions

This area is called a “land bridge,” although, at a thousand miles wide from north to south, it was more than just a bridge; ... spear points of an unusual design were found, characterized by longitudinal grooves, or flutes, chipped onto the faces of the points. ... Although they have been found all over North America, Clovis points are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

Attachment:
10.jpg

Attachment:
11.jpg

Attachment:
13.jpg

Attachment:
14.jpg


Hello Naptiste,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe that we can help resolve your doubt.

Option C does not join two independent clauses with a comma (also known as the error of comma splice), as it does not feature two independent clauses. The only independent clause found in Option C is "Clovis points...have been found all over North America."; "Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932" and "spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces" are both modifying phrases that act upon "Clovis points".

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   07 Nov 2021, 03:15
Thank you for your answer.

Why are "named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932" and "spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces" both not independent clauses?

Is it because they do not make sense on their own?

Thanks

ExpertsGlobal5 wrote:
Naptiste wrote:
I know C) is wrong because it uses the past perfect "have been first discovered in 1932" for an action that has no effect/continuity in the present as indicated by "in 1932".

Supposing that "discovered in 1932" was used in C), can I say that C) is wrong because the 2 independent clauses of the sentence are linked with a comma and no conjunction ?

Thanks




KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named
for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.


(A) Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

(E) While Clovis points are spear points whose faces have longitudinal grooves chipped into them, they have been found all over North America, and named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932.



Show Spoiler
DISCOVER AMER - Page 75

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=xBgAC7rNW5YC
LITTLE CHARLES E - 1995 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions

This area is called a “land bridge,” although, at a thousand miles wide from north to south, it was more than just a bridge; ... spear points of an unusual design were found, characterized by longitudinal grooves, or flutes, chipped onto the faces of the points. ... Although they have been found all over North America, Clovis points are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

Attachment:
10.jpg

Attachment:
11.jpg

Attachment:
13.jpg

Attachment:
14.jpg


Hello Naptiste,

We hope this finds you well.

Having gone through the question and your query, we believe that we can help resolve your doubt.

Option C does not join two independent clauses with a comma (also known as the error of comma splice), as it does not feature two independent clauses. The only independent clause found in Option C is "Clovis points...have been found all over North America."; "Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932" and "spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces" are both modifying phrases that act upon "Clovis points".

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   07 Nov 2021, 04:06
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Naptiste wrote:
Thank you for your answer.

Why are "named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932" and "spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces" both not independent clauses?

Is it because they do not make sense on their own?

Thanks



Hello Naptiste,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your question, yes; these two are not independent clauses because they cannot stand on their own as complete sentences. More elaborately, the first lacks a subject and an active verb, and the second lacks an active verb.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   23 Jan 2022, 08:04
Can anyone please tell me what 'their' in underlined sentence is referring to ? egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   23 Jan 2022, 23:46
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meluthra wrote:
Can anyone please tell me what 'their' in underlined sentence is referring to ? egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal

Hi meluthra,

In option A, their refers to spear points.

1. spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   24 Jan 2022, 01:11
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meluthra wrote:
Can anyone please tell me what 'their' in underlined sentence is referring to ? egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal


Hello meluthra,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, here, "their" refers to "spear points".

The reference to the "face" of the spear points may have thrown you off, but a close look at the sentence will show that there is no other noun that "their" can logically refer to.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   28 Feb 2022, 02:20
Why have been found is correct here ? I feel are found should be used.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   28 Feb 2022, 13:20
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akt715

The present perfect ("have been") has two main uses: one is to show ongoing activity ("I have been reading all day."), and the other is to show accomplishments or benchmarks ("A vaccine for Covid-19 has been developed."). You can think of this case as the latter of those. The sentence is saying that at various times, Clovis points have been found at points throughout the continent. It isn't necessarily saying that they ARE CURRENTLY found all over, or that these occurrences are common. I don't know how rare it is to find a Clovis point, but this can make a difference. For instance, imagine that someone said "Plane crashes have occurred with every major airline." That wouldn't be too alarming, given how long we've had airlines. Contrast this with "Plane crashes occur with every major airline." This now sounds like something to expect.

We can also interpret this sentence using the first main use, as a description of something that is still happening. Clovis points HAVE BEEN found previously, and we can expect that more will still be found, but not necessarily all over, in the way that "are found" would imply. Note that it's also just fine to switch the tense of verbs if there's a reason for the difference. Tense switches are only wrong if they actually create confusion or inaccuracy. So that's why present perfect works. As for the simple present, the clearest reason not to pick it is that it isn't offered! ;)
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   01 Mar 2022, 07:31
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akt715 wrote:
Why have been found is correct here ? I feel are found should be used.


Hello akt715,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, the use of the present perfect tense verb "have been found" is correct because the action of finding the Clovis points concluded in the past but is still relevant in the present; the use of the simple present tense verb "are found" is incorrect because it incorrectly implies that Clovis points being found is a routine or habitual action that takes place in the current time frame; remember, the present perfect tense (marked by the use of the helping verb “has/have”) is used to describe events that concluded in the past but continue to affect the present, and habitual actions are best conveyed through the simple present tense.

To understand the concept of "Simple Tenses" on GMAT, you may want to watch the following video (~1 minute):



To understand the concept of "Present Perfect Tense" on GMAT, you may want to watch the following video (~2 minutes):



All the best!
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Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   31 Mar 2022, 22:57
Thanks DmitryFarber for explaining the use case of present perfect tense.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   31 Mar 2022, 23:02
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"Are found" wouldn't be incorrect, but there is a good reason to use present perfect. Please see my post on the issue above. It looks like others, including ExpertsGlobal5 directly above, have addressed this use of present perfect, so let us know if you have specific follow-up questions on anything.
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   12 Jun 2022, 22:37
KarishmaB wrote:
Sarjaria84 wrote:
KC wrote:
Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces, have been found all over North America, they are named for the New Mexico site where they were first discovered in 1932.

I have gone through other answers and have found in them different errors in the given choices, but while solving the question I rejected the incorrect options because of some other reasons 'as well'.

GMATNinja VeritasKarishma mikemcgarry daagh If you can please provide your valuable thoughts on them.
Quote:
(B) Although named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, Clovis points are spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto their faces and have been found all over North America.

Shouldn't the underlined part say, "where they were first discovered" or at least have a 'comma' before where. Its usage makes more sense in option 'D'
Quote:
(C) Named for the New Mexico site where they have been first discovered in 1932, Clovis points, spear points of longitudinal grooves chipped onto the faces, have been found all over North America.

The original sentence specifically says 'onto their faces', in this option that is changed to 'onto the faces'.
Quote:
(D) Spear points with longitudinal grooves that are chipped onto the faces, Clovis points, even though named for the New Mexico site where first discovered in 1932, but were found all over North America.

Again 'onto the faces' instead of 'onto their faces'


Thanks
Saurabh


Option (B), you are right. 'Where' clause is missing the subject and verb. Same issue is in (D) too.

Options (C) and (D), 'onto their faces' or 'onto the faces' isn't a deal breaker. I would prefer 'onto their faces' for better clarity but 'onto the faces' is also fine.
Bigger problem in (C) is 'have been first discovered in 1932'. It should be 'were first discovered in 1932'. Present perfect implies a connect to the present though we are explicitly talking about the first discovery. It is done and dusted already.


Hi Karishma,

Following is a question from OG -

A site once used as an observatory by the Anasazi, ancient pueblo dwellers of New Mexico, has been recently discovered where patterns of light and shadow were employed to establish the precise limits of the positions of the Sun and Moon over a nineteen-year cycle.

Here,

We have used present perfect with "Discovery". and not past tense

Is it because - the discovery was done recently and is not associated with any specific time.
However, specific time "First" is used in this question

Is My analysis correct? Please explain

Thanks,
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink] New post   02 Jul 2022, 09:06
egmat

Hi,

option B] starts with 'Although' Can we say for sure that a dependent clause should start with 'Although'. Here there is no verb hence incorrect use?

Also, we have a relative pronoun clause starting with 'WHERE'. However, there is no verb but verbal. Again, can we say that its a wrong grammatical construction?
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Re: Even though Clovis points, spear points with longitudinal grooves chip [#permalink]
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