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Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car

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Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Sep 2017, 14:12
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A
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Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore carefully planned his every next battle; this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place.

A) Even though his army had never faced any defeat
B) Even though his army never faced defeat
C) Despite his army having never faced defeat
D) Despite an army that had never been defeated
E) Despite his army never being defeated

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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Sep 2017, 16:07
I go with option A..since its matching the tense form..

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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Sep 2017, 17:24
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I would go with B, because since Even though states a fact from past it has to be simple past. Also look at the second part of the sentence which is in simple past.
So, B makes all the sense.

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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Sep 2017, 22:13
his army had never faced --> past perfect --> requires another event in past tense
secondly, it states a normal fact over in past
option B
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Sep 2017, 23:34
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Imo B
We need only simple past .
There is no timeline in the sentence .


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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2017, 10:17
satsurfs wrote:
Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore carefully planned his every next battle; this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place.

A) Even though his army had never faced any defeat
B) Even though his army never faced defeat
C) Despite his army having never faced defeat
D) Despite an army that had never been defeated
E) Despite his army never being defeated

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I was confused between A and B ....selected B by observing non underline part ..."why he never faced any defeat in the first place" --simple past ..
so simple past is require in under lined part also as both are pointing to same time frame.
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Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Apr 2018, 09:22
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Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore carefully planned his every next battle; this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place.

A. Even though his army had never faced any defeat
B. Even though his army never faced defeat
C. Despite his army having never faced defeat
D. Despite an army that had never been defeated
E. Despite his army never being defeated

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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Apr 2018, 10:56
benejo wrote:
Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore carefully planned his every next battle; this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place.

A. Even though his army had never faced any defeat
B. Even though his army never faced defeat
C. Despite his army having never faced defeat
D. Despite an army that had never been defeated
E. Despite his army never being defeated

Source: ExpertsGlobal


The underlined statement is talking about an event in the past of the past event. i.e., never defeated is past of king Theodre planning his next battles. Hence past perfect tense should be used. So the answer choices should have 'had'. So now the answer could be between A and D. D somehow feels concise.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Apr 2018, 11:10
benejo wrote:
Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore carefully planned his every next battle; this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place.

A. Even though his army had never faced any defeat
B. Even though his army never faced defeat
C. Despite his army having never faced defeat
D. Despite an army that had never been defeated
E. Despite his army never being defeated

Source: ExpertsGlobal


A) any defeat is redundant as NEVER is already used
B) Correct
C) Tense error
D) Modifier error
E) being error


Please correct me if I am wrong somewhere
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Apr 2018, 11:43
Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore carefully planned his every next battle; this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place.

A. Even though his army had never faced any defeat
B. Even though his army never faced defeat
C. Despite his army having never faced defeat
D. Despite an army that had never been defeated
E. Despite his army never being defeated

A
The non-underlined part (this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place) logically hints at using the same language for the underlined part as well. Only difference would be to use 'had' to mark the time frame as the sentence has a following action in simple past.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Apr 2018, 19:49
A or B.

No timeline in the sentence.

Option B.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Apr 2018, 21:47
IMO B.

Verb tense issue :
A. Had... Faced... >> Put this on a timeline and see if the sequencing. It shows that the army first defeats the opponent and then the King plans . Totally wrong.

B. Simple past. Stating facts. No issue.
C.having never faced defeat is a verb ING modifier and therefore does not make sense with the rest of the sentence.
D. Whose army? No pronoun.
E.never being defeated is wrong use of tense

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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Apr 2018, 18:40
B
as it's only stati g the fact which is related to past.
Also B is more concise

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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jun 2018, 23:22
AdityaHongunti wrote:
IMO B.

Verb tense issue :
A. Had... Faced... >> Put this on a timeline and see if the sequencing. It shows that the army first defeats the opponent and then the King plans . Totally wrong.

B. Simple past. Stating facts. No issue.
C.having never faced defeat is a verb ING modifier and therefore does not make sense with the rest of the sentence.
D. Whose army? No pronoun.
E.never being defeated is wrong use of tense

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HI AdityaHongunti,
"A. Had... Faced... >> Put this on a timeline and see if the sequencing. It shows that the army first defeats the opponent and then the King plans . Totally wrong. "
Exactly this is the case- His army never faced any defeat....this happened first , but still he planned. I can see a sequence of events here. I marked A based on that understanding.
Per OE- this is a general statement so no need of HAD, however I am not convinced.

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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2018, 03:45
Could you please explain why A is incorrect.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2018, 04:18
satsurfs wrote:
Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore carefully planned his every next battle; this practice explains why he never faced any defeat in the first place.

A) Even though his army had never faced any defeat
B) Even though his army never faced defeat
C) Despite his army having never faced defeat
D) Despite an army that had never been defeated
E) Despite his army never being defeated

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Hello abhimahna / egmat / @e-gmat /daagh

Could you please help out with this. When you read the sentence , B is the correct answer. But i am not able to find a grammar rule to support it. Below is my logic - which is giving me option A , which I know is incorrect.

When to use past perfect tense -
Step 1 - Remove the past perfect tense from the sentence and replace with simple past.
Step 2 - Remove all the clarifying tense words (ex- after earlier etc.)
Step 3 - Now , if the sequence of events in the sentence is clear -we should not use past perfect. However , if the sequence is not clear now , we can use clarifying words or past perfect or both. If a past perfect is available - give preference to that.
-
Apply step 1 , 2 in the sentence -

"His army never faced any defeat , the king planned something". -- Obviously nothing is clear here -
so we need even thought to clarify the sequence. But as per step 3 , if past perfect is used , there is no harm. So why not A over B. ???

I have a similar sentence below . Which one is correct -
1> Even though the operation was successful , the patient was advised to be in hospital.
2> Even though the operation had been successful, the patient was advised to be in hospital.

Here as well, (1) seems to be the correct answer , but I do not have any rule here.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2018, 04:34
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I believe the logic is like this. Tha, the king never faced any defeat was not just in any battle but throughout until the end. Therefore, his meticulous planning and not facing any defeat were parallel elements. Why would we need a past perfect between concurrent events?
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2018, 05:00
daagh wrote:
I believe the logic is like this. Tha, the king never faced any defeat was not just in any battle but throughout until the end. Therefore, his meticulous planning and not facing any defeat were parallel elements. Why would we need a past perfect between concurrent events?


Hello daagh - Many Thanks for your response -

OK- planning is for next battle (event 2) and army did not face any defeat for previous battles and were still undefeated when the planning started . (event 1).
So ideally event 2 did not finish before event 1 and hence , we should not use past perfect. I am clear in this -

However - what about below sentence - (here operation finish first ,and the patient was advised later).
Which one is correct -
1> Even though the operation was successful , the patient was advised to be in hospital.
2> Even though the operation had been successful, the patient was advised to be in hospital.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2018, 05:43
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If you want to use a past perfect, then the pastness should be deep and deep and not just before or just at the time of ending; in this case, the operation ending successfully and the advice given thereof are almost simultaneous. No Doctor will give advice after one month of operation.
The takeaway is to see the rationale and the worldly-wiseness ibehind the grammar rules.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2018, 06:29
daagh wrote:
If you want to use a past perfect, then the pastness should be deep and deep and not just before or just at the time of ending; in this case, the operation ending successfully and the advice given thereof are almost simultaneous. No Doctor will give advice after one month of operation.
The takeaway is to see the rationale and the worldly-wiseness ibehind the grammar rules.



Thank you daagh - I get the point now.
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Re: Even though his army had never faced any defeat, the king Theodore car &nbs [#permalink] 30 Jun 2018, 06:29
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