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For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 19 May 2015, 02:43
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Naina1 wrote:
Could anyone please explain why C is wrong?


Hi,

Prepositional modifiers have always been onne of the most controversial modifiers, as they can modify a NOUN, a VERB or a complete Clause. In situations like the ones posed by option C, it is best to use Logic and meaning clarity to judge the use of the prepositional modifier.
Another thing to keep in mind that a prepositional modifier when modifies a NOUN, it may reflect either a sense of belonging or copanionship.
Ex:
Ram went to park, with Ravi. (companionship)
Ram painted with a pen. (Belonging)

With option C in place, the sentence becomes :-
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

"with each..." can modify a NOUN ( "shades" ) or the complete independent clause.
Assuming it is modifying the NOUN ( "shades" ), we can logically conclude that this makes no logical sense. Shades "with" (either companion or belonging) "their being blah blah...".
Again, assuming "with each..." modifies the preceding independent clause, we can see that the meaning of the sentence becomes more nonsensical.

So, the option C is definitely a NO GO.

Answer should be A.
Hope this Helped.. :)
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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2015, 13:08
lgon wrote:
308. For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.
(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

I think E is correct.. but it is not.. what is wrong with E?


If you have a closer look at E -
WITH is trying to connect two independent clauses. This is wrong since it is not one of those FANBOYS conjunction.

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jun 2015, 03:32
if we do not know the sentence patterns, we can not solve this problem.

knowing the sentence patterns is the most basic thing, any user of english needs to know and gmat tests this poin because this is basic. gmat is basic
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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jun 2015, 09:20
comma + "with" explains how the action in the previous clause was performed.
Here, from the context it is clear that we have describe "shades" and not explain how they "lived" (action in the previous clause)
So, B, C and E are out.

A. each a roof of poles and arrowweed
This explains that each shade had a roof of poles and arrowweed (i dont know what "arrowweed" means, but it could possibly be a noun because it is connected to poles by "and") and retains the past tense by just using "supported"

B. each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
The 1st part of the sentence is in the past tense, so past tense is preferred.
It should have been "that were supported" and not "that are being supported"

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2017, 08:20
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!
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For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2017, 12:31
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

Hi mikemcgarry,

Can you please explain why options C, D and E are wrong. I am not clear with these 3. Though I have tried to explain these 3 options below.

My Understanding :

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
each here refers to shades correctly and provides further information what these dwellings are comprised of. Sounds OK

(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
The usage of that are being means that the arrow weeds are currently supported by posts set in a rectangle. That is not the intended meaning. So, incorrect.

(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
Usage of 'with each' sounds awkward to me, using only each instead serves the purpose. Usage of being is also not correct in this sentence because it is neither used as a passive progressive verb or as a noun.

(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
this suggests that dwellings are with roofs of poles and arrowweed. This meaning is non sensical. Instead the intended meaning is that dwellings each consist of a roof and arrowhead.

(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are
similar issue as option D.

Thanks.
-Varun

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2017, 12:59
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

Can you please explain why options C, D and E are wrong. I am not clear with these 3. Though I have tried to explain these 3 options below.

My Understanding :

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
each here refers to shades correctly and provides further information what these dwellings are comprised of. Sounds OK

(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
The usage of that are being means that the arrow weeds are currently supported by posts set in a rectangle. That is not the intended meaning. So, incorrect.

(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
Usage of 'with each' sounds awkward to me, using only each instead serves the purpose. Usage of being is also not correct in this sentence because it is neither used as a passive progressive verb or as a noun.

(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
this suggests that dwellings are with roofs of poles and arrowweed. This meaning is non sensical. Instead the intended meaning is that dwellings each consist of a roof and arrowhead.

(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are
similar issue as option D.

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2017, 13:42
aceGMAT21 wrote:
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

Hi mikemcgarry,

Can you please explain why options C, D and E are wrong. I am not clear with these 3. Though I have tried to explain these 3 options below.

My Understanding :

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
each here refers to shades correctly and provides further information what these dwellings are comprised of. Sounds OK

(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
The usage of that are being means that the arrow weeds are currently supported by posts set in a rectangle. That is not the intended meaning. So, incorrect.

(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
Usage of 'with each' sounds awkward to me, using only each instead serves the purpose. Usage of being is also not correct in this sentence because it is neither used as a passive progressive verb or as a noun.

(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
this suggests that dwellings are with roofs of poles and arrowweed. This meaning is non sensical. Instead the intended meaning is that dwellings each consist of a roof and arrowhead.

(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are
similar issue as option D.

Thanks.
-Varun

Dear aceGMAT21 Varun,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

This is a great question, and clearly (A) is the best answer.

(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
It may be that the present tense is implied, but the big problem is that this is very awkward. Introducing the word "being" more often than not produces very awkward-sounding constructions. This one sounds so bad that it should be taken out back and shot.

(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
Again, the appearance of "being" makes this very awkward-sounding. Also, in (C)-(E), the "with" introduction is awkward: these dwellings aren't "with" a roof--they are a roof! The appositive phrase, in (A), is so much more natural.

(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
This also has the problematic "with" and the "to be supported" implies some kind of imperative, as if God has commanded these roofs to be set on poles. The entire connotation is very strange and very different from the descriptive tone of the prompt.

(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are
This also has the problematic "with" and it is simply clumsy and awkward. This is the opposite of elegance.

All four of these are clearly wrong, and (A) is superb. This is such a great question. As someone who rights practice questions for a living, I am always in awe of the official question.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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New post 19 Oct 2017, 01:01
mikemcgarry wrote:
aceGMAT21 wrote:
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

Hi mikemcgarry,

Can you please explain why options C, D and E are wrong. I am not clear with these 3. Though I have tried to explain these 3 options below.

My Understanding :

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
each here refers to shades correctly and provides further information what these dwellings are comprised of. Sounds OK

(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
The usage of that are being means that the arrow weeds are currently supported by posts set in a rectangle. That is not the intended meaning. So, incorrect.

(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
Usage of 'with each' sounds awkward to me, using only each instead serves the purpose. Usage of being is also not correct in this sentence because it is neither used as a passive progressive verb or as a noun.

(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
this suggests that dwellings are with roofs of poles and arrowweed. This meaning is non sensical. Instead the intended meaning is that dwellings each consist of a roof and arrowhead.

(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are
similar issue as option D.

Thanks.
-Varun

Dear aceGMAT21 Varun,

I'm happy to respond. :-)

This is a great question, and clearly (A) is the best answer.

(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
It may be that the present tense is implied, but the big problem is that this is very awkward. Introducing the word "being" more often than not produces very awkward-sounding constructions. This one sounds so bad that it should be taken out back and shot.

(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
Again, the appearance of "being" makes this very awkward-sounding. Also, in (C)-(E), the "with" introduction is awkward: these dwellings aren't "with" a roof--they are a roof! The appositive phrase, in (A), is so much more natural.

(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
This also has the problematic "with" and the "to be supported" implies some kind of imperative, as if God has commanded these roofs to be set on poles. The entire connotation is very strange and very different from the descriptive tone of the prompt.

(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are
This also has the problematic "with" and it is simply clumsy and awkward. This is the opposite of elegance.

All four of these are clearly wrong, and (A) is superb. This is such a great question. As someone who rights practice questions for a living, I am always in awe of the official question.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Thanks for the explanation Mike. :) Though I have one question here.

The prepositional modifier "with...." can be used as a verb modifier to depict the meaning "accompanied by".

For example, I came here with a lot of hope.... ( "with a lot of hope" modifies "came" correctly).

So, similar to this usage in the question at hand,
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are ......

here, "with roofs of poles and arrowweed" modifies the verb "lived" which is NON SENSICAL and is not the implied meaning. mikemcgarry, is this reasoning of elimination correct? What do you say?

Thanks.
-Varun

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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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aceGMAT21 wrote:

Thanks for the explanation Mike. :) Though I have one question here.

The prepositional modifier "with...." can be used as a verb modifier to depict the meaning "accompanied by".

For example, I came here with a lot of hope.... ( "with a lot of hope" modifies "came" correctly).

So, similar to this usage in the question at hand,
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are ......

here, "with roofs of poles and arrowweed" modifies the verb "lived" which is NON SENSICAL and is not the implied meaning. mikemcgarry, is this reasoning of elimination correct? What do you say?

Thanks.
-Varun

Dear aceGMAT21 Varun,

My friend, I'm happy to respond. :-)

My friend, first I will specify something hyper-technical, far beyond what you need to know for the GMAT. The proposition "with" can be used as a verb modifier to indicate accompaniment, means, materials, or manner.
I cooked dinner with my friend = accompaniment (person who is with me)
I cooked dinner with my biggest pot = means (the tool I use)
I cooked dinner with three cloves of garlic = materials (the stuff I use)
I cooked dinner with great anticipation = manner (my mood)
BTW, putting two of those different usages in parallel creates a spectacular logical error known as a zeugma:
I cleaned the floor with a mop and with my friend Chris.
You definitely do not need to know that word: fewer than 1% of the entire population knows that word!

So, yes, you are 100% correct that the "with" preposition could be used in one of these ways.

I will say that, often, when the "with" preposition denotes not an additional person but an addition part or piece of something, it is more common for this to appear as a noun modifier:
I bought a car with white-walled tires.
There, the "with" preposition modifies the noun "car."

In this particular sentence, I would say that we have a wrong-each-way kind of situation. On the one hand, you are 100% correct: if we choose to read "with roofs of poles and arrowweed" as a verb modifier, then it is nonsensically trying to modify "lived," which defies all logic. On the other hand, if we try to read it as a noun modifier, modifying "shades," then this seems to be making the mistake of saying [thing] "with" [the same thing]! The fact that the appositive phrase works so well in (A) is an indication that a "with" relationship is not appropriate: if we can say the appositive [P], [Q], implicitly equating [P] and [Q], then it would be 100% wrong to say [P] "with" [Q}.
I bought a new car, a Ford Mustang. = correct appositive structure
I bought a new car with a Ford Mustang. = abominably wrong
My friend has a pet, a Persian cat. = correct appositive structure
My friend has a pet with a Persian cat. = abominably wrong

So, this is quite a spectacular mistake: it is flamboyantly wrong in two completely different ways!

Does all this make sense, my friend?

Mike :-)
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Re: For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, fl [#permalink]

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Quote:
For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrow weed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrow weed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrow weed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrow weed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrow weed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrow weed that are



After Mike's odyssey into the adverbial and adjectival use of the propositional modifier ''with', the genuine intention of GMAT Prep's topic could be to see, whether we could solve it in less arduous terms.
My road to Rome, therefore, would be
(A) each a roof of poles and arrow weed-- correct
(B) each a roof of poles and arrow weed that are being - "that are being" is wrong here to denote something that happened long ago.
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrow weed---" being" is used neither as a part of a subject or subject phrase nor as a part of a passive voice verb. Hence, wrong.
(D) with roofs of poles and arrow weed to be -- "to be" means the roofs or the poles are still to be supported --- This is absurd.

(E) with roofs of poles and arrow weed that are--- Same tense error as in B

What remains is just A, which avoids all the errors found in the other four choices. More importantly, we have somehow scuttled the hassle of the 'with'

Thanks to Mike for his elucidation of the concept of 'with" and a deserving kudos to him.
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