Author 
Message 
TAGS:

Hide Tags

EMPOWERgmat Instructor
Status: GMAT Assassin/CoFounder
Affiliations: EMPOWERgmat
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
Posts: 11801
Location: United States (CA)
GRE 1: 340 Q170 V170

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
13 Feb 2015, 19:39
Hi pacifist85, While "adding in" a radius can be a useful 'step' in dealing with a multipleshape Geometry question, it won't actually help us here. With the information in Fact 2, we know that we have a right triangle with a hypotenuse of 18, but we don't know ANYTHING else. With that info, we have A^2 + B^2 = 18^2, but we don't know the actual values of A and B (which we need to figure out the area). If we had info about the other angles, then we COULD figure those sides out though (since we'd have a relationship among the 3 sides based on the angles). Adding in a radius won't help us figure out any of the other angles (in the big triangle or in either of the smaller triangles). To figure out the area of the triangle, we need a "base" and a "height." We COULD set the 18 as the base, but we have no way of determining the height without additional information (at least one more of the sides or one of the non90 degree angles). As such, Fact 2 is INSUFFICIENT. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich
_________________
760+: Learn What GMAT Assassins Do to Score at the Highest Levels Contact Rich at: Rich.C@empowergmat.com
Rich Cohen
CoFounder & GMAT Assassin
Special Offer: Save $75 + GMAT Club Tests Free
Official GMAT Exam Packs + 70 Pt. Improvement Guarantee www.empowergmat.com/
***********************Select EMPOWERgmat Courses now include ALL 6 Official GMAC CATs!***********************



Senior Manager
Status: Math is psychological
Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 423
Location: Netherlands
GMAT Date: 02112015
WE: Psychology and Counseling (Other)

For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 Feb 2015, 03:19
Hi Rich, I understand eveything you said. Actually, I wasn't assuming any of this. I added the image to illustrate what I thought. So, after drawing it, I realised the mistake in my line of reasoning. The problem is that I cannot be sure which one the hypotenuse is, in any of the 2 smaller triangles, so using the pythagorean I can find the third side. Right? Because all I know is that AC + CB >18 and that 18> CB  AC. But even with this information, I cannot figure out which one of the sides has the bigger or smaller length. I was focusing on the lower triangle, because it seems that CB is greater than the radius, but I cannot be sure. So, "it seems" is not enough.
Attachments
Untitled.png [ 6.63 KiB  Viewed 1303 times ]



EMPOWERgmat Instructor
Status: GMAT Assassin/CoFounder
Affiliations: EMPOWERgmat
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
Posts: 11801
Location: United States (CA)
GRE 1: 340 Q170 V170

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 Feb 2015, 12:42
Hi pacifist85, A hypoteneuse ONLY exists in right triangles, so neither of the two small triangles actually has a hypoteneuse. When dealing with Geometry questions on the GMAT, it's often really helpful to draw the physical shapes (as opposed to just staring at words or sticking to just the math formulas involved). You'll be far more likely to make 'connections' and the proper deductions when you can "see" the shapes and your work, so I encourage you to continue doing what you did here  draw the pictures and get the points. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich
_________________
760+: Learn What GMAT Assassins Do to Score at the Highest Levels Contact Rich at: Rich.C@empowergmat.com
Rich Cohen
CoFounder & GMAT Assassin
Special Offer: Save $75 + GMAT Club Tests Free
Official GMAT Exam Packs + 70 Pt. Improvement Guarantee www.empowergmat.com/
***********************Select EMPOWERgmat Courses now include ALL 6 Official GMAC CATs!***********************



Senior Manager
Status: Math is psychological
Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 423
Location: Netherlands
GMAT Date: 02112015
WE: Psychology and Counseling (Other)

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
15 Feb 2015, 05:16
EMPOWERgmatRichC wrote: Hi pacifist85,
A hypoteneuse ONLY exists in right triangles, so neither of the two small triangles actually has a hypoteneuse.
When dealing with Geometry questions on the GMAT, it's often really helpful to draw the physical shapes (as opposed to just staring at words or sticking to just the math formulas involved). You'll be far more likely to make 'connections' and the proper deductions when you can "see" the shapes and your work, so I encourage you to continue doing what you did here  draw the pictures and get the points.
GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich Hmmmm... a very good point that did not even occur to me... OK I will pretend that I had a mini stroke an move on!



Current Student
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 11
Concentration: Other, Technology
GMAT Date: 06052015

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
20 Sep 2015, 03:44
enigma123 wrote: Attachment: Untitled.png For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on a circle, and line segment AB has length 18, what is the area of triangle ABC? (1) Angle ABC measures 30°. (2)The circumference of the circle is \(18\pi\). Choice (1) by itself is insufficient. However, there is an equation to find the area of a triangle Area of a triangle, A = P * r /2 P = perimeter of the inscribed circle r = radius of the inscribed circle Won't B alone suffice to reach the answer?



Director
Joined: 10 Mar 2013
Posts: 562
Location: Germany
Concentration: Finance, Entrepreneurship
GPA: 3.88
WE: Information Technology (Consulting)

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
08 Dec 2015, 15:12
enigma123 wrote: Attachment: Untitled.png For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on a circle, and line segment AB has length 18, what is the area of triangle ABC? (1) Angle ABC measures 30°. (2)The circumference of the circle is \(18\pi\). To be honest it's a very easy question, if you don't assume your decisions based just on the drawing !  > It's a DS question, so don't assume anything. (1) We have ONLY one side and one angle, it's not sufficient to calculate the area of a triamgle (2) C=18pi, this tells us that the diameter is equal to 18 and that it's a right triangle, BUT it's still not sufficient to calculate an area with ONLY one side and one angle (1) + (2) It's a 306090 Triangle, thus we can calculate an are with the given information (all 3 angles + Hypotenuse =18)
_________________
When you’re up, your friends know who you are. When you’re down, you know who your friends are.
Share some Kudos, if my posts help you. Thank you !
800Score ONLY QUANT CAT1 51, CAT2 50, CAT3 50 GMAT PREP 670 MGMAT CAT 630 KAPLAN CAT 660



Director
Joined: 26 Oct 2016
Posts: 666
Location: United States
Concentration: Marketing, International Business
GPA: 4
WE: Education (Education)

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Dec 2016, 03:35
In order to find the area of the triangle, we need to find the lengths of a base and its associated height. Our strategy will be to prove that ABC is a right triangle, so that CB will be the base and AC will be its associated height. (1) INSUFFICIENT: We now know one of the angles of triangle ABC, but this does not provide sufficient information to solve for the missing side lengths. (2) INSUFFICIENT: Statement (2) says that the circumference of the circle is 18 . Since the circumference of a circle equals times the diameter, the diameter of the circle is 18. Therefore AB is a diameter. However, point C is still free to "slide" around the circumference of the circle giving different areas for the triangle, so this is still insufficient to solve for the area of the triangle. (1) AND (2) SUFFICIENT: Note that inscribed triangles with one side on the diameter of the circle must be right triangles. Because the length of the diameter indicated by Statement (2) indicates that segment AB equals the diameter, triangle ABC must be a right triangle. Now, given Statement (1) we recognize that this is a 306090 degree triangle. Such triangles always have side length ratios of 1: sqrt3 :2 Given a hypotenuse of 18, the other two segments AC and CB must equal 9 and 9sqrt3 respectively. This gives us the base and height lengths needed to calculate the area of the triangle, so this is sufficient to solve the problem. The correct answer is C.
_________________
Thanks & Regards, Anaira Mitch



Intern
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 47

For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
04 Apr 2017, 09:56
Why is B not enough ? If AB is the diameter then triangle ABC has to be 306090 triangle and if that's the case then we can calculate the area right ?
I had read somewhere that if the Hypotenuse is confirmed as the diameter then the triangle is always a right angle triangle.



EMPOWERgmat Instructor
Status: GMAT Assassin/CoFounder
Affiliations: EMPOWERgmat
Joined: 19 Dec 2014
Posts: 11801
Location: United States (CA)
GRE 1: 340 Q170 V170

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
04 Apr 2017, 11:16
Hi anuj11, With the information in Fact 2, we know that we have a right triangle with a hypotenuse of 18, but we don't know ANYTHING else. With that info, we have A^2 + B^2 = 18^2, but we don't know the actual values of A and B (which we need to figure out the area). If we had info about the other ANGLES, then we COULD figure those sides out though (since we'd have a relationship among the 3 sides based on the angles). However, we don't know whether the triangle is a 30/60/90 or some other right triangle... and those different options would have different areas. As such, Fact 2 is INSUFFICIENT. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich
_________________
760+: Learn What GMAT Assassins Do to Score at the Highest Levels Contact Rich at: Rich.C@empowergmat.com
Rich Cohen
CoFounder & GMAT Assassin
Special Offer: Save $75 + GMAT Club Tests Free
Official GMAT Exam Packs + 70 Pt. Improvement Guarantee www.empowergmat.com/
***********************Select EMPOWERgmat Courses now include ALL 6 Official GMAC CATs!***********************



Intern
Joined: 16 Mar 2017
Posts: 13
Location: India
GPA: 2.75

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
13 May 2017, 00:39
Can any one please explain why B alone is not sufficient.? Is it because angle A and B could either of measures (i.e. 45,45 or 30,60).?
Posted from my mobile device



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 46167

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
13 May 2017, 01:00



Intern
Joined: 16 Mar 2017
Posts: 13
Location: India
GPA: 2.75

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
13 May 2017, 23:37
Bunuel wrote: AdityaSurana94 wrote: Can any one please explain why B alone is not sufficient.? Is it because angle A and B could either of measures (i.e. 45,45 or 30,60).?
Posted from my mobile device The second statement is not sufficient because even though we know that ABC must be a right triangle we don't know measures of its remaining angles. It's not necessary ABC to be either 306090 or 454590, it can be any right triangle, say 0.589.590 or say 177390, ... Hope it helps. THANKS. it did



Manager
Joined: 26 Jan 2016
Posts: 80
Location: India
GPA: 3.01

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
14 May 2017, 13:38
AdityaSurana94 wrote: Can any one please explain why B alone is not sufficient.? Is it because angle A and B could either of measures (i.e. 45,45 or 30,60).?
Posted from my mobile device even though we know that ABC must be a right triangle we don't know measures of its remaining angles



Senior Manager
Status: Countdown Begins...
Joined: 03 Jul 2016
Posts: 313
Location: India
Concentration: Technology, Strategy
GPA: 3.7
WE: Information Technology (Consulting)

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
15 May 2017, 21:53
Bunuel wrote: The second statement is not sufficient because even though we know that ABC must be a right triangle we don't know measures of its remaining angles. It's not necessary ABC to be either 306090 or 454590, it can be any right triangle, say 0.589.590 or say 177390, ...
Hope it helps. Bunuel If it were given in the question that angle ACB = 90, then can we conclude that AB is the diameter of the circle?



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 46167

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
15 May 2017, 23:20



Director
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 776
Location: United States
GRE 1: 315 Q157 V158
GPA: 2.66

Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on [#permalink]
Show Tags
08 Sep 2017, 01:22
enigma123 wrote: Attachment: Untitled.png For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on a circle, and line segment AB has length 18, what is the area of triangle ABC? (1) Angle ABC measures 30°. (2)The circumference of the circle is \(18\pi\). St 1 We don't know anything about the other angles and we cannot assume that this is a 90 degree triangle unless one the sides of the triangle is the diameter of the circle insuff St 2 Even if we know that this is a right triangle we do not know whether this is an isosceles right triangle or a scalene right triangle insuff St 1 & 2 180 30 = 60 If we know the remaining angle is 60 then the we can just adjust for ratio 1 \sqrt{3} 2 C




Re: For the triangle shown, where A, B and C are all points on
[#permalink]
08 Sep 2017, 01:22



Go to page
Previous
1 2
[ 36 posts ]



