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Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish

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Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jun 2016, 17:10
The key word here is "range". The argument isn't about the size of the population, so answer choice D makes perfect sense.
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Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 31 Aug 2016, 23:51
LogicGuru1 wrote:
People will come to all sort of random answers if they not read carefully and realise that No unnecessary information is ever given in a CR question.
Every sentence and every word in CR questions serve a purpose. Keeping this in mind the correct answer is D
Time taken to solve 32 seconds

Guillemots bird eat fish that gather beneath the thin ice.<=== given in stimulus

Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish that gather beneath thin sheets of floating ice, and they nest on nearby lands. Guillemots need 80 consecutive snow free days in a year to raise their chicks, so until avrage temperature in arctic began to rise recently, the guillemots' range was limited to the southernmost arctic coast. Therefore, if the warming continues, the guillemots' range will probably be enlarged by being extended northward along the coast...

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the the argument?

A. Even if the warming trend continues, there will still be years in which guillemots chicks are killed by an unusually early snow.
and their will still be years in which Guillmot population will grow exceptionally high.
B. If Arctic warming continues, guillemots' current predators are likely to succeed in extending their own range farther north.
Are there no predators right now. There are always predators... let them go north. guilemonte will save itself in north , like guillemonte is currently protecting itself in south.
C. Guillemots nest in coastal areas, where tempratures are generally higher than inland areas.
??? North is also a costal area.. right !! ... The costal line runs NORTH-SOUTH.
D. If the Arctic warming continues much of the thin ice in southern arctic will disappear.
BAMM:- No thin floating ice, no fish to eat. No fist to eat .. starvation . starvation.. death .. death .. no increase in territory .. along any coastal lines.
E. The fish that guillemots eat are currently preyed on by wider variety of predators in southernmost arctic regions than they are farther north.
Strenghtening.. so guillmonte will get more fishes to eat when they move north.. its not a weakener ..


Ok so you need an extra assumption that fish needs ice to survive, or that ice is needed to suppport life for the birds or birds dont like easy catch without ice and so on ...... etc.

on the same lines we can argue that we need extra assumtpion that since on the south the birds have more predators to compete with so they will stay away from the south, there you go another reason to stay north, the range didnt increase, they stayed away from the south.
In either case you need axtra assumption to get to the answer, depending which way you take

And this question is the ones that GMAC can use to manipulate with the answer choice, it is like philosphy everybody are right and wrong depending from what perspective you are approaching the question. verbal part is not transparaent section and very very debatable on many questions.
as a matter of fact there are many questions like this, good luck to us to think what they want you to tink
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Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 01 Sep 2016, 10:31
kzivrev wrote:
LogicGuru1 wrote:
People will come to all sort of random answers if they not read carefully and realise that No unnecessary information is ever given in a CR question.
Every sentence and every word in CR questions serve a purpose. Keeping this in mind the correct answer is D
Time taken to solve 32 seconds

Guillemots bird eat fish that gather beneath the thin ice.<=== given in stimulus

Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish that gather beneath thin sheets of floating ice, and they nest on nearby lands. Guillemots need 80 consecutive snow free days in a year to raise their chicks, so until avrage temperature in arctic began to rise recently, the guillemots' range was limited to the southernmost arctic coast. Therefore, if the warming continues, the guillemots' range will probably be enlarged by being extended northward along the coast...

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the the argument?

A. Even if the warming trend continues, there will still be years in which guillemots chicks are killed by an unusually early snow.
and their will still be years in which Guillmot population will grow exceptionally high.
B. If Arctic warming continues, guillemots' current predators are likely to succeed in extending their own range farther north.
Are there no predators right now. There are always predators... let them go north. guilemonte will save itself in north , like guillemonte is currently protecting itself in south.
C. Guillemots nest in coastal areas, where tempratures are generally higher than inland areas.
??? North is also a costal area.. right !! ... The costal line runs NORTH-SOUTH.
D. If the Arctic warming continues much of the thin ice in southern arctic will disappear.
BAMM:- No thin floating ice, no fish to eat. No fist to eat .. starvation . starvation.. death .. death .. no increase in territory .. along any coastal lines.
E. The fish that guillemots eat are currently preyed on by wider variety of predators in southernmost arctic regions than they are farther north.
Strenghtening.. so guillmonte will get more fishes to eat when they move north.. its not a weakener ..


Ok so you need an extra assumption that fish needs ice to survive, or that ice is needed to suppport life for the birds or birds dont like easy catch without ice and so on ...... etc.

on the same lines we can argue that we need extra assumtpion that since on the south the birds have more predators to compete with so they will stay away from the south, there you go another reason to stay north, the range didnt increase, they stayed away from the south.
In either case you need axtra assumption to get to the answer, depending which way you take

And this question is the ones that GMAC can use to manipulate with the answer choice, it is like philosphy everybody are right and wrong depending from what perspective you are approaching the question. verbal part is not transparaent section and very very debatable on many questions.
as a matter of fact there are many questions like this, good luck to us to think what they want you to tink


The argument states that ice free days should increase the range of the Guillemots because they are beneficial for the birds in some way X. Option D shows another way X', a disadvantage of ice free days to the birds and thereby opposes the conclusion.

The disadvantage X': The second sentence states that the Guillemots feed on fish that gather below the ice. If the ice no longer exists, fish would not gather below ice (because there is no ice !) and the Guillemots would not be able to get their feed.
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Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 01 Sep 2016, 12:42
sayantanc2k wrote:
kzivrev wrote:
LogicGuru1 wrote:
People will come to all sort of random answers if they not read carefully and realise that No unnecessary information is ever given in a CR question.
Every sentence and every word in CR questions serve a purpose. Keeping this in mind the correct answer is D
Time taken to solve 32 seconds

Guillemots bird eat fish that gather beneath the thin ice.<=== given in stimulus

Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish that gather beneath thin sheets of floating ice, and they nest on nearby lands. Guillemots need 80 consecutive snow free days in a year to raise their chicks, so until avrage temperature in arctic began to rise recently, the guillemots' range was limited to the southernmost arctic coast. Therefore, if the warming continues, the guillemots' range will probably be enlarged by being extended northward along the coast...

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the the argument?

A. Even if the warming trend continues, there will still be years in which guillemots chicks are killed by an unusually early snow.
and their will still be years in which Guillmot population will grow exceptionally high.
B. If Arctic warming continues, guillemots' current predators are likely to succeed in extending their own range farther north.
Are there no predators right now. There are always predators... let them go north. guilemonte will save itself in north , like guillemonte is currently protecting itself in south.
C. Guillemots nest in coastal areas, where tempratures are generally higher than inland areas.
??? North is also a costal area.. right !! ... The costal line runs NORTH-SOUTH.
D. If the Arctic warming continues much of the thin ice in southern arctic will disappear.
BAMM:- No thin floating ice, no fish to eat. No fist to eat .. starvation . starvation.. death .. death .. no increase in territory .. along any coastal lines.
E. The fish that guillemots eat are currently preyed on by wider variety of predators in southernmost arctic regions than they are farther north.
Strenghtening.. so guillmonte will get more fishes to eat when they move north.. its not a weakener ..


Ok so you need an extra assumption that fish needs ice to survive, or that ice is needed to suppport life for the birds or birds dont like easy catch without ice and so on ...... etc.

on the same lines we can argue that we need extra assumtpion that since on the south the birds have more predators to compete with so they will stay away from the south, there you go another reason to stay north, the range didnt increase, they stayed away from the south.
In either case you need axtra assumption to get to the answer, depending which way you take

And this question is the ones that GMAC can use to manipulate with the answer choice, it is like philosphy everybody are right and wrong depending from what perspective you are approaching the question. verbal part is not transparaent section and very very debatable on many questions.
as a matter of fact there are many questions like this, good luck to us to think what they want you to tink


The argument states that ice free days should increase the range of the Guillemots because they are beneficial for the birds in some way X. Option D shows another way X', a disadvantage of ice free days to the birds and thereby opposes the conclusion.

The disadvantage X': The second sentence states that the Guillemots feed on fish that gather below the ice. If the ice no longer exists, fish would not gather below ice (because there is no ice !) and the Guillemots would not be able to get their feed.


Two assupmtion need to be made, 1. that fish needs this ice to hide from predators from example and fish must move north with the ice and with the fish the bird need to move north and 2. that the birds dont have any other source of food except this fish.
for E says that this fish is also source of food for other predators, thay aslo eat this fish under the ice, so birds have competiton on the south. Hard to exclude E as well,. either way you need extra assumtion to arrive at the answer, so it is not fair to consider only D but not E.
I understand your point but E is close contender and on test conditions very easy to get your attention.
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Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 01 Sep 2016, 12:56
kzivrev wrote:

Two assupmtion need to be made, 1. that fish needs this ice to hide from predators from example and fish must move north with the ice and with the fish the bird need to move north and 2. that the birds dont have any other source of food except this fish.
for E says that this fish is also source of food for other predators, thay aslo eat this fish under the ice, so birds have competiton on the south. Hard to exclude E as well,. either way you need extra assumtion to arrive at the answer, so it is not fair to consider only D but not E.
I understand your point but E is close contender and on test conditions very easy to get your attention.


What and why would you need an assumption ?
what assumptions do you keep talking about... TWO ASSUMPTIONS ????
No assumption is needed .

OPTION E is WRONG !! Plain and Simple .

The fish that guillemots eat are currently preyed on by wider variety of predators in southernmost arctic regions than they are farther north.

Option E is a clean cut STRENGTHENER and therefore INCORRECT because we need a WEAKENER.

Food (Fish) is less in the current location of Guillemot bird because many type of predators are using the same food source (Fish).
Less predators use fish as food in the New Location of Guillemot. So obviously Guillemot will not have to struggle to find food in new location and thus abundant food supply will result in no more death due to scarcity of food. Infact abundant food supply will nicely support the growing population and thus Guillemot will prosper and increase its range.

SO why do u keep insisting that E is a contender and what assumptions do you keep mentioning.

E is as incorrect an answer as trying to call a Burning hot African summer day a cold moonless night on north pole.
E is as opposite an answer as labelling a new born baby deer a ferocious carnivorous predator.

E IS EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE RIGHT ANSWER !!
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Posting an answer without an explanation is "GOD COMPLEX". The world doesn't need any more gods. Please explain you answers properly.
FINAL GOODBYE :- 17th SEPTEMBER 2016. .. 16 March 2017 - I am back but for all purposes please consider me semi-retired.

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Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 01 Sep 2016, 14:46
LogicGuru1 wrote:
kzivrev wrote:

Two assupmtion need to be made, 1. that fish needs this ice to hide from predators from example and fish must move north with the ice and with the fish the bird need to move north and 2. that the birds dont have any other source of food except this fish.
for E says that this fish is also source of food for other predators, thay aslo eat this fish under the ice, so birds have competiton on the south. Hard to exclude E as well,. either way you need extra assumtion to arrive at the answer, so it is not fair to consider only D but not E.
I understand your point but E is close contender and on test conditions very easy to get your attention.


What and why would you need an assumption ?
what assumptions do you keep talking about... TWO ASSUMPTIONS ????
No assumption is needed .

OPTION E is WRONG !! Plain and Simple .

The fish that guillemots eat are currently preyed on by wider variety of predators in southernmost arctic regions than they are farther north.

Option E is a clean cut STRENGTHENER and therefore INCORRECT because we need a WEAKENER.

Food (Fish) is less in the current location of Guillemot bird because many type of predators are using the same food source (Fish).
Less predators use fish as food in the New Location of Guillemot. So obviously Guillemot will not have to struggle to find food in new location and thus abundant food supply will result in no more death due to scarcity of food. Infact abundant food supply will nicely support the growing population and thus Guillemot will prosper and increase its range.

SO why do u keep insisting that E is a contender and what assumptions do you keep mentioning.

E is as incorrect an answer as trying to call a Burning hot African summer day a cold moonless night on north pole.
E is as opposite an answer as labelling a new born baby deer a ferocious carnivorous predator.

E IS EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE RIGHT ANSWER !!



First we are all here to learn and to share opinions, second nobody is perfect including the GMAC.
Now for the question I will try to explain my reasoning. it is a common sence that if the warming continuous the ice will melt no matter what, no thini sheet of ice. from the paragraph " Therefore, if the warming continues, the guillemots' range will probably be enlarged by being extended northward along the coast..." It says that the warming continuous therefore the ice will melt, D is just common sence statement.
the question is - are birds going to occupy larger range (south to north lattitude) or the range will stay the same. it says they live in the arctic circle, the arctic circle starts from 66 North degrees from the equator. so bird range starts from 66 degrees North lattitude up till some lets say 80 degrees north lattitude, this is their natural habitat, range from 66 to 80 degrees north latitude. the bottom limit is important , the 66 degrees. now the argument says there is global warmnig and if continues it will melt the ice, just common sense - that imply that the arctic circle will shrink, arctic circle will move northbound to some degrees lets say 70 degrees would be the beginning of the arctic circle. The lower range of the habitat of the birds before warming is 66 degrees all the way to the norther limit 80. now with warming, arctic circle shifts up, cnsequently their most northern limit of natural habibat will shift as well, does the lower limit of the habitat will remain and 66? the conclusion of the argumant sattes that their range is enlarged, this means their lower limit of the habitat remained at 66 degrees and implies enlarged range of the habitat. does their lower boundary of the natural habitat stays at 66 degrees? to upper boundary extends to more than 80 degrees norther latitude for sure, the most north habitat limit moved more north cus of the warmer climate, "Guillemots need 80 consecutive snow free days in a year to raise their chicks" means that the 80 snowless days are possiable at higher nortern lattitude. are they going to stay at the old range at 66 and all the way up to the new most northern latitude or they will move north to the 70 degrees north ( simoultaneously with the arctic circle lower boundary).- we want to weaken the conclusion that the habitat is enlarged, to weaken we need to prove that the range will not enlarge, it can be either stay the same ( this implies that is moving together with the arctic circle shrinkage) or decrease, but not to enlarge. so we need to find reason X as you said that will show that their range did not enlarged. simply D is that no more ice sheets, my assumptions regarding D are in mine prevouis post.
E says that there are some predators that share the food source together with the birds, whola one reason to move the lower border of the habitat more north with the arctic circle.

as you are saying : "Food (Fish) is less in the current location of Guillemot bird because many type of predators are using the same food source (Fish).
Less predators use fish as food in the New Location of Guillemot. So obviously Guillemot will not have to struggle to find food in new location and thus abundant food supply will result in no more death due to scarcity of food. Infact abundant food supply will nicely support the growing population and thus Guillemot will prosper and increase its range. " you just proved that their habitat moved northbound, did not stay at 66 degrees norther latitude, which means their habitat does not occupy larger range as the conlusion says.

as I understood the paragraph we are looking llattitudal range change ( north-south) not population change as you have mentioned.
Based on this reasoning I kept E as contnder cus holds more scientific and logical grounds to dispove that the habitat enlarged. the climete opens new grounds for the habitat but the reason that there is competiotn for the food source their lower limit of the boundary of the habitat actualy moved north, which means the range decreased or remained unchaged but did not enlarged.


I hope I'm clear.

Again we are here to share oppinions and no intentions to offend somebody.
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Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2016, 01:25
kzivrev wrote:
First we are all here to learn and to share opinions, second nobody is perfect including the GMAC.
Now for the question I will try to explain my reasoning. it is a common sence that if the warming continuous the ice will melt no matter what, no thini sheet of ice. from the paragraph " Therefore, if the warming continues, the guillemots' range will probably be enlarged by being extended northward along the coast..." It says that the warming continuous therefore the ice will melt, D is just common sence statement.
the question is - are birds going to occupy larger range (south to north lattitude) or the range will stay the same. it says they live in the arctic circle, the arctic circle starts from 66 North degrees from the equator. so bird range starts from 66 degrees North lattitude up till some lets say 80 degrees north lattitude, this is their natural habitat, range from 66 to 80 degrees north latitude. the bottom limit is important , the 66 degrees. now the argument says there is global warmnig and if continues it will melt the ice, just common sense - that imply that the arctic circle will shrink, arctic circle will move northbound to some degrees lets say 70 degrees would be the beginning of the arctic circle. The lower range of the habitat of the birds before warming is 66 degrees all the way to the norther limit 80. now with warming, arctic circle shifts up, cnsequently their most northern limit of natural habibat will shift as well, does the lower limit of the habitat will remain and 66? the conclusion of the argumant sattes that their range is enlarged, this means their lower limit of the habitat remained at 66 degrees and implies enlarged range of the habitat. does their lower boundary of the natural habitat stays at 66 degrees? to upper boundary extends to more than 80 degrees norther latitude for sure, the most north habitat limit moved more north cus of the warmer climate, "Guillemots need 80 consecutive snow free days in a year to raise their chicks" means that the 80 snowless days are possiable at higher nortern lattitude. are they going to stay at the old range at 66 and all the way up to the new most northern latitude or they will move north to the 70 degrees north ( simoultaneously with the arctic circle lower boundary).- we want to weaken the conclusion that the habitat is enlarged, to weaken we need to prove that the range will not enlarge, it can be either stay the same ( this implies that is moving together with the arctic circle shrinkage) or decrease, but not to enlarge. so we need to find reason X as you said that will show that their range did not enlarged. simply D is that no more ice sheets, my assumptions regarding D are in mine prevouis post.
E says that there are some predators that share the food source together with the birds, whola one reason to move the lower border of the habitat more north with the arctic circle.

as you are saying : "Food (Fish) is less in the current location of Guillemot bird because many type of predators are using the same food source (Fish).
Less predators use fish as food in the New Location of Guillemot. So obviously Guillemot will not have to struggle to find food in new location and thus abundant food supply will result in no more death due to scarcity of food. Infact abundant food supply will nicely support the growing population and thus Guillemot will prosper and increase its range. " you just proved that their habitat moved northbound, did not stay at 66 degrees norther latitude, which means their habitat does not occupy larger range as the conlusion says.

as I understood the paragraph we are looking llattitudal range change ( north-south) not population change as you have mentioned.
Based on this reasoning I kept E as contnder cus holds more scientific and logical grounds to dispove that the habitat enlarged. the climete opens new grounds for the habitat but the reason that there is competiotn for the food source their lower limit of the boundary of the habitat actualy moved north, which means the range decreased or remained unchaged but did not enlarged.


I hope I'm clear.

Again we are here to share oppinions and no intentions to offend somebody.


I give up !!
My best wishes for your preparation and hope you do well .
all the best
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Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2016, 08:12
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kzivrev wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
kzivrev wrote:

Ok so you need an extra assumption that fish needs ice to survive, or that ice is needed to suppport life for the birds or birds dont like easy catch without ice and so on ...... etc.

on the same lines we can argue that we need extra assumtpion that since on the south the birds have more predators to compete with so they will stay away from the south, there you go another reason to stay north, the range didnt increase, they stayed away from the south.
In either case you need axtra assumption to get to the answer, depending which way you take

And this question is the ones that GMAC can use to manipulate with the answer choice, it is like philosphy everybody are right and wrong depending from what perspective you are approaching the question. verbal part is not transparaent section and very very debatable on many questions.
as a matter of fact there are many questions like this, good luck to us to think what they want you to tink


The argument states that ice free days should increase the range of the Guillemots because they are beneficial for the birds in some way X. Option D shows another way X', a disadvantage of ice free days to the birds and thereby opposes the conclusion.

The disadvantage X': The second sentence states that the Guillemots feed on fish that gather below the ice. If the ice no longer exists, fish would not gather below ice (because there is no ice !) and the Guillemots would not be able to get their feed.


Two assupmtion need to be made, 1. that fish needs this ice to hide from predators from example and fish must move north with the ice and with the fish the bird need to move north and 2. that the birds dont have any other source of food except this fish.
for E says that this fish is also source of food for other predators, thay aslo eat this fish under the ice, so birds have competiton on the south. Hard to exclude E as well,. either way you need extra assumtion to arrive at the answer, so it is not fair to consider only D but not E.
I understand your point but E is close contender and on test conditions very easy to get your attention.


Your understanding that the ice is needed by fishes to "hide" is not required at all. The point is that ice is beneficial for the Guillemots (not to fishes as you have assumed), hence melting of ice will NOT help Guillemot enlarge it's range.

Option E: other predators prey currently - Guillemots also prey now competing with them. If the warming continues, it is not known what these other predators would do. Thus option E does not play any role in weakening the argument.

Reading your response to LogicGuru1, it seems that you have been over-thinking on this particular question, leading to many assumptions or external information getting into your thought process and making the solution unnecessarily complex. I would suggest that you let go of this question for the time being and come back to it after a few wees and see how you think - try to get rid of your pre-conditioned thoughts and think fresh when you come back. If you have a query then, please post back.
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Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish [#permalink]

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New post 23 Jan 2018, 21:27
GyanOne
In B you are saying birds and its predators stay together in south. Where it is mentioned exactly ?
Re: Guillemots are birds for arctic regions. They feed on fish   [#permalink] 23 Jan 2018, 21:27

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