I don't know what I want to do.....

too funny! yes, that's what i would imagine it would be like as an ABM in a packaged goods company. that's why you wouldn't catch me dead there. don't get me wrong, there is certainly prestige and a good foundation to be had at a P&G or whatnot, but determining the softest toilet paper isn't exactly exciting to me.

it varies SO MUCH by industry, i can't even begin to emphasize that enough. while toys can be considered a consumer good, it is night and day different from pkgd goods. see my previous post...

So how is BM different from marketing?

Also, if your company is public and the stock price takes a hit, your department appears to be the easiest scapegoat. That is, your people appear to be "expendable."

Not saying you explicitly, but just generally trying to get a feel for this indsutry.

Hmmm....i've read this a few times and still don't understand what point you are attempting to make. You originally tried to knock IB by saying "anyone can do it", and I responded by saying "anyone" can do MC or CF, as an example. Your response to this is to say MC and CF don't pay as well as IB - what does that have to do with the original discussion? Are you trying to condemn IB because it pays much better than other industries? Odd argument.

Saying IB is the only industry that will take MBAs out of undergrad is kind of a silly statement.

The original statement was, "IB is the only industry where you can make 300K+/year."

Sure MC and CF you don't need any skill. Same thing with working at Taco Bell. But you aren't making 300K/year.

I'm not condeming IB because they pay much better than other industries. I'm saying that IB is (probably) the only industry where you can make that much without specialized skill (like a doctor or physicist).... therefore it is a commodity. Do banks have trouble hiring assocaiates?

i would say BM is a subset marketing. my title is brand manager, but i'm in the marketing department. we also have trade marketers, who manage merchandising and displays in store and work with our retailers to maximize our face to the consumer at their stores. but as the brand manager, i am the gatekeeper, so to speak, for absolutely everything that goes on with my brand. it's my baby

some companies don't have brand management at all, or if they do it's at a very high level. credit card companies come to mind... take american express. they have a zillion types of marketers that manage different facets of the business, but the AMEX brand is singular. i can go into more detail on this if it's not clear...

i've never felt any sort of pressure in terms of layoffs, etc. yes, marketing is always the first to go, but in my experience that means mktg budgets are cut. not the people. unfortunately, within the mktg budget it's advertising that gets cut first and that means many ad agencies end up laying their people off.

actually layoffs at my company tend to affect the product designers before it affects the marketers. we are a marketing driven and marketing led company. we make all the business decisions (in conjunction with our finance team -- incidentally, you couldn't pay me enough to do their job. it's awful!). it's nice to have that sort of power...

Ah, I just realized you aren't the person I was originally discussing this with - it was biggamejames. My bad.

From a money standpoint, there is no way MC is ahead of IB.

Yup... only PE!

well good luck...very few people can make the cut ..as what one brings to the PE is more important than a HBS or Stanford MBA

Anyone know anything about PIMCO?

https://www2.pimco.com/MBA/

Their jobs, frankly, sound pretty damn interesting.

Okay, I am very interested in this conversation now. Let's "pretend" that I have no skills. (because I don't actually have any finance skills) I don't necessarily need 300K/year but something respectable. So you guys are confirming that IB is a good option for me, assuming that I'm willing to trade my social life/family life/hobbies for a big chunk of money. And IM, equities research are alternatives that pay a little less but more reasonable hours.

Anything else I should consider? (lets call these the "fresh start" options, for career changers with no previous exp)

I believe PIMCO is a 100% fixed income, probaly a great place to work if you're interested in credit and debt, but not equities.

I don't think the big firms are the best places to work for IM.

Best place would be a middle player. Good upside but established. Capital under management ~50 billion would be good.

Unlike the IBs and MCs who get the best deals and biggest clients, IM is the same no matter how much money you manage. (assuming the firm is not small)

Not really, usually at least a portion of your bonus is tied to AUM and/or yearly profits. Also, pay is much better with the large IM firms than with small/regional firms.

I believe that IB and MC are generally considered friendly towards career changers. Reading between the lines, I believe this means "no experience necessary". While that's probably not entirely true, I expect you can learn what you need to know during business school and internship.

Well, for MC you may not be experienced in MC itself, but you will bring to the table your experience with some industry(ies) or disciplines.

L.

So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?