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If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

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If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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04 Mar 2012, 22:42
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If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd
(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2
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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd. Notice that $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=odd$$ can happen only in two cases:

A. $$(y+2)!=x!$$ in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=1=odd$$. For this case $$y$$ can be even: $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=4$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{24}{24}=1=odd$$;

B. $$y=odd$$ and $$x=y+1$$, in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{(y+1)!}=y+2=odd$$. For example, $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=y+1=2$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd$$ (basically all the cases like: 3!/2!, 5!/4!, 7!/6!, ... --> y+2=odd, 3, 5, 7, ... --> y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...).

Not sufficient.

(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2. Clearly insufficient: consider $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=2$$ OR $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=1$$.

(1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means $$y=odd$$. Sufficient.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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24 Sep 2012, 22:17
very good explanation

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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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19 Aug 2013, 07:08
Bunuel wrote:
If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd. Notice that $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=odd$$ can happen only in two cases:

A. $$(y+2)!=x!$$ in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=1=odd$$. For this case $$y$$ can be even: $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=4$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{24}{24}=1=odd$$;

B. $$y=odd$$ and $$x=y+1$$, in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{(y+1)!}=y+2=odd$$. For example, $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=y+1=2$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd$$ (basically all the cases like: 3!/2!, 5!/4!, 7!/6!, ... --> y+2=odd, 3, 5, 7, ... --> y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...).

Not sufficient.

(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2. Clearly insufficient: consider $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=2$$ OR $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=1$$.

(1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means $$y=odd$$. Sufficient.

Hope it's clear.

***********

Hi Bunuel,

**B. y=odd and x=y+1, in this case \frac{(y+2)!}{(y+1)!}=y+2=odd. For example, y=1=odd and x=y+1=2: \frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd (basically all the cases like: 3!/2!, 5!/4!, 7!/6!, ... --> y+2=odd, 3, 5, 7, ... --> y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...).
**

You mentioned y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...; and (1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means $$y=odd$$. Sufficient.

Are you considering y=1 as odd? can you explain how y=1 satisfies the solution.

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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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19 Aug 2013, 07:17
abhisheksriv85 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd. Notice that $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=odd$$ can happen only in two cases:

A. $$(y+2)!=x!$$ in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=1=odd$$. For this case $$y$$ can be even: $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=4$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{24}{24}=1=odd$$;

B. $$y=odd$$ and $$x=y+1$$, in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{(y+1)!}=y+2=odd$$. For example, $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=y+1=2$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd$$ (basically all the cases like: 3!/2!, 5!/4!, 7!/6!, ... --> y+2=odd, 3, 5, 7, ... --> y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...).

Not sufficient.

(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2. Clearly insufficient: consider $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=2$$ OR $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=1$$.

(1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means $$y=odd$$. Sufficient.

Hope it's clear.

***********

Hi Bunuel,

**B. y=odd and x=y+1, in this case \frac{(y+2)!}{(y+1)!}=y+2=odd. For example, y=1=odd and x=y+1=2: \frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd (basically all the cases like: 3!/2!, 5!/4!, 7!/6!, ... --> y+2=odd, 3, 5, 7, ... --> y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...).
**

You mentioned y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...; and (1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means $$y=odd$$. Sufficient.

Are you considering y=1 as odd? can you explain how y=1 satisfies the solution.

Well 1 is an odd number. If $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=y+1=2$$, then $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd$$.
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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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19 Aug 2013, 07:20
Bunuel wrote:
abhisheksriv85 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd. Notice that $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=odd$$ can happen only in two cases:

A. $$(y+2)!=x!$$ in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=1=odd$$. For this case $$y$$ can be even: $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=4$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{24}{24}=1=odd$$;

B. $$y=odd$$ and $$x=y+1$$, in this case $$\frac{(y+2)!}{(y+1)!}=y+2=odd$$. For example, $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=y+1=2$$: $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd$$ (basically all the cases like: 3!/2!, 5!/4!, 7!/6!, ... --> y+2=odd, 3, 5, 7, ... --> y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...).

Not sufficient.

(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2. Clearly insufficient: consider $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=2$$ OR $$y=2=even$$ and $$x=1$$.

(1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means $$y=odd$$. Sufficient.

Hope it's clear.

***********

Hi Bunuel,

**B. y=odd and x=y+1, in this case \frac{(y+2)!}{(y+1)!}=y+2=odd. For example, y=1=odd and x=y+1=2: \frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd (basically all the cases like: 3!/2!, 5!/4!, 7!/6!, ... --> y+2=odd, 3, 5, 7, ... --> y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...).
**

You mentioned y=odd, 1, 3, 5, ...; and (1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means $$y=odd$$. Sufficient.

Are you considering y=1 as odd? can you explain how y=1 satisfies the solution.

Well 1 is an odd number. If $$y=1=odd$$ and $$x=y+1=2$$, then $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}=\frac{3!}{2!}=3=odd$$.

Thanks Bunuel... got it!!

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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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10 Sep 2013, 11:38
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devinawilliam83 wrote:
If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd
(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2

From (1): assume: x = y + 2, so (y + 2)!/x! = 1 = odd
y can odd or even, so (1) Insufficient.

From (2): assume x = y + 1, so (y + 2)!/x! = y + 2 > 2 because y is a positive integer
y can odd or even, so (2) Insufficient.

From (1) + (2): (y + 2)!/x! > 2 and (y + 2)!/x! = odd
Assume: (y + 2)!/x! = 3, so (y + 2)! =x!*(2k + 1) with k >=1
If x = y + 2, so 1 = 2k + 1 (wrong because k >=1)
If x = y + 1, so y + 2 = 2k + 1, therefore y = odd
If x = y, so (y + 1)(y + 2) = 2k + 1 (wrong) because the product of 2 consecutive integers is even.
If x = y - 1, so y(y + 1)(y + 2) = 2k + 1 (wrong) because the product is always even.
Only one solution is right: If x = y + 1, so y + 2 = 2k + 1, therefore y = odd

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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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16 Sep 2013, 06:17
[quote="Bunuel"]If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

I am sorry i don't want to sound dumb, i just want to know how you assumed the cases above?? also what did you mean by:"(1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means . Sufficient."

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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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skamran wrote:

also what did you mean by:"(1)+(2) From (2) we cannot have case A, hence we have case B, which means . Sufficient."

Let's see if I can help you out. This question involves the knowledge of few concepts.

1) The division of two factorial expressions has to be odd. When does it happen? since a factorial say y! is the product amongst y, (y-1), (y-2) and so on, this sequence will always contain a multiple of two unless y is 1 or 0 (remember 1! =1 and 0! =1). In our case x and y are positive integers thus the lowest value y can assume is 1. If y=1 then (y+2)!=3!. We will not face the zero factorial case thus we can safely get rid of it.

Back to our question: if we want to obtain an odd integer from $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}$$ either

1. the two numbers have to be equal (entailing 1 as a quotient)
EG

y=1 ---> (y+2)!=3!
x!=3!
- result is 1 = odd integer. In this case y is odd

y=2 (y+2)!=4!
x!=4!
- result is 1 = odd integer. In this case y is even.

2. or x! has to be one less than (y+2)! with y as an odd number.

EG
y=3 (y+2)!=5!

x!=4!
- 5! upon 4! yields 5 and y must be ODD.

Statement one is thus insufficient by itself.

2) this statement doesn't tell us anything interesting besides that x! must be different from (y+2)! y can assume both an even and an odd value.
Not sufficient

1+2) Statement 2 conveys us that x! must be different from (y+2)! This said we can get rid of case one in our statement 1 analysis. Now we are sure that Y is an odd integer.

Sufficient
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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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03 Feb 2014, 04:54
(1): $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}$$ is odd. Clearly $$x<=(y+2)$$.

Let x=y+2 then $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!}$$ =1 y can be even or odd. so (1) is insufficient

(2): $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!} > 2$$ so x has to be less than y+2

Let x=y+1 then

$$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!} > 2$$

is $$y+2>2$$

From this y can be any +ve integer. insufficient.

(1)+(2)

$$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!} > 2$$ and also odd.

Continuing the analysis from above, if y+2>2 and y+2 is odd, then y has to be odd.

Next Let x=y

then $$\frac{(y+2)!}{x!} > 2$$

is (y+2)(y+1) > 2. Notice (y+2) & (y+1) are consecutive integers. their product will always be even. This contradicts (1)+(2) hence x cannot be equal to y.

similarly x cannot be equal to y-1 and so on.

x has to be equal to y+1. and y must be odd. We have a concrete answer, y is odd. (1)+(2) is sufficient.
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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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devinawilliam83 wrote:
If x and y are positive integers is y odd?

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd
(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2

It's pretty easy to see the answer is (C) if you understand the concept of factorials well.

Note that a! = 1*2*3*4...(a-1)*a
So a! is the product of alternate odd and even numbers.
a!/b! will be an integer only if a >= b

(1) (y+2)!/x! = odd
So y+2 >= x
Two Cases:
Case (i) If y+2 = x, (y+2)!/x! = 1 (odd). y could be odd or even.
Case (ii) If y+2 > x, y+2 must be only one more than x. If y+2 is 2 more than x, you wil have two extra terms in the numerator and one of them will be even. So to ensure that (y+2)!/x! is odd, y+2 must be only 1 more than x and must be odd so all we are left in the numerator is (y+2) which must be odd. y must be odd.
y could be odd or even so this statement alone is not sufficient.

(2) (y+2)!/x! is greater than 2
This means y+2 > x. But we have no idea about whether y is odd or even. Not sufficient.

Using both statements together, we know that only Case (ii) above is possible and hence y must be odd.

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Get started with Veritas Prep GMAT On Demand for $199 Veritas Prep Reviews Kudos [?]: 18130 [3], given: 236 Intern Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 2 Kudos [?]: [0], given: 1 Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink] Show Tags 19 Dec 2014, 17:20 i igore the possibility that (y+2)! is equal to x! so i choose A... a little difficult~~ Kudos [?]: [0], given: 1 Intern Joined: 05 Dec 2014 Posts: 3 Kudos [?]: 2 [0], given: 1 is Y Odd ? [#permalink] Show Tags 25 Dec 2014, 01:35 Case 1: (Y+2)!/X! = Odd If Y=3, then the above equation can only be odd when X= (Y+2)-1 which is 4. So you get 5!/4! =5. If Y=2, and X=4, 4!/4! = 1 which is also odd. Hence, Insufficient. Case 2:(Y+2)!/X! is greater than 2 This holds for multiple values of Y and X. Hence clearly, Insufficient. Together, if it is greater than 2 then it means Y has to be odd. Hence C! _________________ If my post is helpful/correct, consider giving Kudos Kudos [?]: 2 [0], given: 1 Manager Joined: 22 Aug 2014 Posts: 190 Kudos [?]: 11 [0], given: 49 Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink] Show Tags 09 Mar 2015, 08:55 Hey Bunuel, I solved the problem by plugging in values combining statement 1 and 2, 10/2=5 and 9/3=3 in this case answer will be E. Please explain where I did wrong! Kudos [?]: 11 [0], given: 49 Math Expert Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 42607 Kudos [?]: 135655 [0], given: 12705 Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink] Show Tags 09 Mar 2015, 09:04 ssriva2 wrote: Hey Bunuel, I solved the problem by plugging in values combining statement 1 and 2, 10/2=5 and 9/3=3 in this case answer will be E. Please explain where I did wrong! Please elaborate how you got these values. Thank you. _________________ Kudos [?]: 135655 [0], given: 12705 EMPOWERgmat Instructor Status: GMAT Assassin/Co-Founder Affiliations: EMPOWERgmat Joined: 19 Dec 2014 Posts: 10391 Kudos [?]: 3690 [0], given: 173 Location: United States (CA) GMAT 1: 800 Q51 V49 GRE 1: 340 Q170 V170 Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink] Show Tags 09 Mar 2015, 10:56 Hi ssriva2, You should double-check your math. Neither of those 2 examples 'fits' Fact 1. GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made, Rich _________________ 760+: Learn What GMAT Assassins Do to Score at the Highest Levels Contact Rich at: Rich.C@empowergmat.com Rich Cohen Co-Founder & GMAT Assassin Special Offer: Save$75 + GMAT Club Tests Free
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If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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22 Aug 2016, 05:16
Simply one of the best questions from MGMAT.!!
Here we need to get if y is odd.even

Statement 1 => here y can be odd or Y+2=x => insuff
Statement 2 => insuff as y can be even or odd
Statement one and two's combination gives us the evidence that y+2≠x hence y has to be odd.

P.S =>Simply one of the best questions from MGMAT.!!

CC- abhimahna Go Ahead and tell me you didnt solve it in 60 sec. It took me forever to solve this
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Re: If x and y are positive integers, is y odd? [#permalink]

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20 Sep 2016, 18:30
sidoknowia wrote:
If x and y are positive integers, is y odd?

(1) (y+2)! / x! is an odd integer.
(2) (y+2)! / x! is greater than 2.

Didn't really understood OE.
Can someone explain OA?

(1) we can easily eliminate 1 as we can easily get 1 when we divide any unknowm variable and 1 is odd
eg if y=2(EVEN) then (y+2)!=4! and we can easily choose x to be 4 for having desired odd integer for the given condition......NO
similarly if y=3 then putting x=5 ...after division we get 1 (odd) but y= odd.......YES
Having both scenario option is insuff....
(2) it says we get divisible value given is greater than 2...
again we can assign any integer to Y and any integer for X such that x not equal y+2 then we get desired result..
Let y=3(odd) and x=2 then expression gives result>2.......Yes
But if y=2(even) and x=1 then also expression gives result>2......NO
so insuff...

COmbining both we eliminate the possiblity of x=y+2 and as any number n!>1 always gives even number
and any even number dividing any even number easily gives even number too..
but as per (1) we should have obtained a integer which is odd and it is possible in only one case when y=1 and x=2

Ans C

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If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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20 Sep 2016, 23:53
stonecold wrote:
Simply one of the best questions from MGMAT.!!
Here we need to get if y is odd.even

Statement 1 => here y can be odd or Y+2=x => insuff
Statement 2 => insuff as y can be even or odd
Statement one and two's combination gives us the evidence that y+2≠x hence y has to be odd.

P.S =>Simply one of the best questions from MGMAT.!!

CC- abhimahna Go Ahead and tell me you didnt solve it in 60 sec. It took me forever to solve this

stonecold : Just checked that you have mentioned my name here. I am not sure how but I missed this question.

Now, coming back to the question. This time also I really took 58 secs to solve this question.

Statement 1 : We are given (y+2)! / x ! = ODD.

I took the value of ODD integer as 1,3,5. Found that I am getting y as even for y =1 and for others u as ODD. So, my mindset for the next move was ready.

Statement 2 : We are given (y+2)! / x ! > 2

I know from the previous statement that for 3 and 5 it is ODD.

I checked the value for 4 and 6 and found the value of y as even.

Now I checked for a larger even and ODD integer, and found that for y = ODD and > 3, I will get my statements satisfied. Hence, I marked C.

P.S : Going forward, please IM me such questions so that I can quickly check and respond.
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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd? [#permalink]

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14 Jul 2017, 00:15
In statement 1, pay attention to the SPECIAL CASE in which (y+2)!=x!
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Re: If x and y are positive integers is y odd?   [#permalink] 14 Jul 2017, 00:15
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