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# IIM Ahmedabad \$\$\$> US ultra-elites???

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Manager
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09 Mar 2007, 02:57
Hi all
Just saw this news article on the Economic Times, a popular Indian business paper.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Mon ... 738578.cms

It says the top salary at IIM Ahmedabad is USD 225k. Last year, the top salary at ISB, Hyderabad was around USD 233k. Now, I havent seen these salaries even at US schools/INSEAD. Their salary 'range' (IB included) shows the highest as being far less than 230k. Now, how exactly is this possible? If IIMA can have a person worth that much money, H/S/W can have 100 such people, considering their reputation. Can someone throw light on this?

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09 Mar 2007, 03:21
mba07 wrote:
Hi all
Just saw this news article on the Economic Times, a popular Indian business paper.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Mon ... 738578.cms

It says the top salary at IIM Ahmedabad is USD 225k. Last year, the top salary at ISB, Hyderabad was around USD 233k. Now, I havent seen these salaries even at US schools/INSEAD. Their salary 'range' (IB included) shows the highest as being far less than 230k. Now, how exactly is this possible? If IIMA can have a person worth that much money, H/S/W can have 100 such people, considering their reputation. Can someone throw light on this?

Plausible reasons could be
1) IIM A are super duper math frenzy geeks (mots of them IIT IIM combinations) unlike the diversity rich H-S-W, which make the suitable for I-Banking jobs which pay those salaries.
2) Some one in the forum pointed out that most IIM grads are freshers with little or no experience and join the industry as analysts working on number crunching I-Banking jobs and thier H-S-W counterparst go to a mich bigger variety of industries (other thank i-bank)
3) Most US colleges report base salaries (not including bonuses and performance companies and Cost To company) where as IIMs probaly include those
4) The figure that u report is the highest salary. For All u know those guys could also be sons and daughters of bigshots or bigshots in industry who have come to do a MBA. Maybe if u consider median onsite salary then things could look more reasonable

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09 Mar 2007, 03:35
I knew the first guy to reply would be an Indian.
Quote:
Some one in the forum pointed out that most IIM grads are freshers with little or no experience and join the industry as analysts working on number crunching I-Banking jobs and thier H-S-W counterparst go to a mich bigger variety of industries (other thank i-bank)

But then, how could an analyst earn more than an Associate? Isnt 230k too high a figure even for an Associate?

Quote:
Most US colleges report base salaries (not including bonuses and performance companies and Cost To company) where as IIMs probaly include those

Quite possible. But how do they know the bonus beforehand?? The bonuses are supposed to year-end, performance based right??

Quote:
The figure that u report is the highest salary. For All u know those guys could also be sons and daughters of bigshots or bigshots in industry who have come to do a MBA. Maybe if u consider median onsite salary then things could look more reasonable

The sons and daughters of top honchos are more likely to attend top US schools. In any case, the guy who got the highest salary last year (USD 150k) was a Chartered Accountant with workex in Citibank.

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09 Mar 2007, 03:42
Columbia reported the following initial compensation for their most recent class (employment report pdf can be found on their website):

Investment Banking/Brokerage: \$80k-\$300k - 32.5% of class
Investment Management: \$85k-\$300k - 11.3%
Real Estate: \$85k-250k - 5.5%

These include guaranteed bonuses, and not discretionary bonuses. It's definitely possible that many IB/IM types made substantially more in discretionary bonuses last year because the industry experienced a record year.

Also, as far as I know, Harvard and Stanford do not release their employment data; so the reason why you have not seen higher initial compensation numbers from them is because it hasn't been published. I will say that Stanford sends a large group into the local VC community and compensation is through the roof. Harvard also sends a sizable group into the Boston VC industry.

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09 Mar 2007, 03:43
mba07 wrote:
I knew the first guy to reply would be an Indian.
Quote:
Some one in the forum pointed out that most IIM grads are freshers with little or no experience and join the industry as analysts working on number crunching I-Banking jobs and thier H-S-W counterparst go to a mich bigger variety of industries (other thank i-bank)

But then, how could an analyst earn more than an Associate? Isnt 230k too high a figure even for an Associate?

Quote:
Most US colleges report base salaries (not including bonuses and performance companies and Cost To company) where as IIMs probaly include those

Quite possible. But how do they know the bonus beforehand?? The bonuses are supposed to year-end, performance based right??

Quote:
The figure that u report is the highest salary. For All u know those guys could also be sons and daughters of bigshots or bigshots in industry who have come to do a MBA. Maybe if u consider median onsite salary then things could look more reasonable

The sons and daughters of top honchos are more likely to attend top US schools. In any case, the guy who got the highest salary last year (USD 150k) was a Chartered Accountant with workex in Citibank.

There was an article in economic times where there were plenty of \$\$\$ offers (but not offering quality jobs) to IIM grads which many refused.

Well Bonuses (called performance components in Indian IT jargon)
When a offer is made the salary figures would include bonuses at 100% payout. There was a lot of discussion on this in the media that the salaries reported are not stripped of such components like ctc projected bonuses etc

Again the salaries reported is base salary in US schoold and the IIMs could report gross salary thats the difference

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09 Mar 2007, 03:45
hmmm....my gut tells me:

the highest offer, the highest 1 offer, could be higher by chance. But I seriously doubt the whole distribution is in IIM's favor. Ask yourself this: do you know people who have gotten into IIM/ISB? among those people, do you know a group that are primarily concerned with money and have also gotten into an Ultra - Elite? Did they choose the Ultra Elite over the other ones? If such a group is more than 10 people and they are consistent with their "money first focus", then I say the data is bogus.

And what about those PE jobs everyone is raving about? Can you honestly tell me that no HBS/Columbia/Wharton/Chicago....etc. grad got 300k + bonus? Or even 400k?

If we are discussing IIM vs. (for eg.) Simon, then that's another story and I wouldn't be so sure. But IIM or ISB vs. Ultra Elites? no way, man.

However, I admit my gut analysis could be wrong. Anyone else?

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09 Mar 2007, 03:46
Quite possible. But how do they know the bonus beforehand?? The bonuses are supposed to year-end, performance based right??

Well My company rectruits a lot of IIM grads and in offers they include bonuses at a projection of 1005 payout and many IT companies do the same

Remember IIM ISB want to compete with US b-schools n terms of numbers and this could be a strategy to market themselves

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09 Mar 2007, 03:47
Here's the prior year data - which shows that last year was not an anomoly:

Diversified Financial Services: \$94k-\$275k - 7.2%
IB/Brokerage: \$95k-\$269k - 28.5%
IM: \$78k-\$375k - 10.4%
VC/PE: \$90k-\$320k - 4.7%
Real Estate: \$76k-\$220k - 5%

Again, these numbers reflect guaranteed bonuses but do not include discretionary amounts.

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09 Mar 2007, 03:49
lepium wrote:
hmmm....my gut tells me:

the highest offer, the highest 1 offer, could be higher by chance. But I seriously doubt the whole distribution is in IIM's favor. Ask yourself this: do you know people who have gotten into IIM/ISB? among those people, do you know a group that are primarily concerned with money and have also gotten into an Ultra - Elite? Did they choose the Ultra Elite over the other ones? If such a group is more than 10 people and they are consistent with their "money first focus", then I say the data is bogus.

And what about those PE jobs everyone is raving about? Can you honestly tell me that no HBS/Columbia/Wharton/Chicago....etc. grad got 300k + bonus? Or even 400k?

If we are discussing IIM vs. (for eg.) Simon, then that's another story and I wouldn't be so sure. But IIM or ISB vs. Ultra Elites? no way, man.

However, I admit my gut analysis could be wrong. Anyone else?

While I agree with u there are many indians who still would choose IIMA over ultra elite (purely passion and emotion)

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09 Mar 2007, 03:53
venky1979 wrote:
lepium wrote:
hmmm....my gut tells me:

the highest offer, the highest 1 offer, could be higher by chance. But I seriously doubt the whole distribution is in IIM's favor. Ask yourself this: do you know people who have gotten into IIM/ISB? among those people, do you know a group that are primarily concerned with money and have also gotten into an Ultra - Elite? Did they choose the Ultra Elite over the other ones? If such a group is more than 10 people and they are consistent with their "money first focus", then I say the data is bogus.

And what about those PE jobs everyone is raving about? Can you honestly tell me that no HBS/Columbia/Wharton/Chicago....etc. grad got 300k + bonus? Or even 400k?

If we are discussing IIM vs. (for eg.) Simon, then that's another story and I wouldn't be so sure. But IIM or ISB vs. Ultra Elites? no way, man.

However, I admit my gut analysis could be wrong. Anyone else?

While I agree with u there are many indians who still would choose IIMA over ultra elite (purely passion and emotion)

Yeah, venky, and I respect people in that group. Precisely that's why I said: "within that group [IIM admits] do you know people that are primarily concerned with money?". Of course there could be several people who choose IIM vs. Ultra Elites for reasons beyond money, but those are not helpful in this particular analysis.

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09 Mar 2007, 04:00
lepium wrote:
venky1979 wrote:
lepium wrote:
hmmm....my gut tells me:

the highest offer, the highest 1 offer, could be higher by chance. But I seriously doubt the whole distribution is in IIM's favor. Ask yourself this: do you know people who have gotten into IIM/ISB? among those people, do you know a group that are primarily concerned with money and have also gotten into an Ultra - Elite? Did they choose the Ultra Elite over the other ones? If such a group is more than 10 people and they are consistent with their "money first focus", then I say the data is bogus.

And what about those PE jobs everyone is raving about? Can you honestly tell me that no HBS/Columbia/Wharton/Chicago....etc. grad got 300k + bonus? Or even 400k?

If we are discussing IIM vs. (for eg.) Simon, then that's another story and I wouldn't be so sure. But IIM or ISB vs. Ultra Elites? no way, man.

However, I admit my gut analysis could be wrong. Anyone else?

While I agree with u there are many indians who still would choose IIMA over ultra elite (purely passion and emotion)

Yeah, venky, and I respect people in that group. Precisely that's why I said: "within that group [IIM admits] do you know people that are primarily concerned with money?". Of course there could be several people who choose IIM vs. Ultra Elites for reasons beyond money, but those are not helpful in this particular analysis.

Your statements are very valid I Just added a piece of info thats all. Your analysis is valid

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09 Mar 2007, 04:03
lepium wrote:
Ask yourself this: do you know people who have gotten into IIM/ISB? among those people, do you know a group that are primarily concerned with money and have also gotten into an Ultra - Elite? Did they choose the Ultra Elite over the other ones?

Most (heck, all) IIM admits I know are 22-23 year olds who are barely out of college or are 1-2 years into industry (read IT).

lepium wrote:
If we are discussing IIM vs. (for eg.) Simon, then that's another story and I wouldn't be so sure. But IIM or ISB vs. Ultra Elites? no way, man.

Thats exactly what I thought too and was shell shocked to see this report.

I admit the point that the US schools might have included only the guaranteed bonus.

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09 Mar 2007, 04:36
IIM is a big name in this country and everyone who knows about me going for US schools asked why not IIM?

The simple fact is a lot of IIM students won't stand a chance at ultra-elites given their amount of work ex.

Also imagine a guy with 4 yrs work ex sitting with class full of people who are still in the college mode. It would similar to a recent grad joining the ultra-elites.

Regarding the salary part, I am damn sure that it includes everything... even the coffee you will have in the office.
I have many cousins who did their MBA from elite schools in India so this salary explanantion is first hand.

There was also an article, I think 3-4 years ago, which discussed how b-schools in India are using CTC (cost to company) to show inflated salary information.

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09 Mar 2007, 10:27
So jaynayak, you think that means their numbers include things (in addtion to coffee) like health care costs, retirement contributions, etc. (I don't know if this is common for companies there). Also, most companies in the US offer things like long-term disability, employee assistance (counseling), child care, etc. for their professional employees. An HR specialist would know, but I think for a professional level employee, these things are worth \$100k+ per year.

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09 Mar 2007, 10:30
It is possible that a son of rich got a huge offer from his own father??

I remember that a person from Wharton got 300K salary and 300K signing bonus. Pelihu said that Trump's daughter recently went to Wharton. I suspect that this 600K (not even including any bounus/relo) what Donald paid to his daughter.

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09 Mar 2007, 10:39
The salary statistics are measured without accounting for other benefits. Students do get exceptionally good offers from IIMs. The caveat is that only a handful get these "lateral" offers. The student's work experience/industry expertise prior to b-school are taken in to consideration. The rest of the students (>98 %) get reasonably good offers. There aren't many students placed internationally. If you want to work in India, IIM-A will open more doors than Harvard.

pelihu wrote:
So jaynayak, you think that means their numbers include things (in addtion to coffee) like health care costs, retirement contributions, etc. (I don't know if this is common for companies there). Also, most companies in the US offer things like long-term disability, employee assistance (counseling), child care, etc. for their professional employees. An HR specialist would know, but I think for a professional level employee, these things are worth \$100k+ per year.

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09 Mar 2007, 10:41
pelihu wrote:
So jaynayak, you think that means their numbers include things (in addtion to coffee) like health care costs, retirement contributions, etc. (I don't know if this is common for companies there). Also, most companies in the US offer things like long-term disability, employee assistance (counseling), child care, etc. for their professional employees. An HR specialist would know, but I think for a professional level employee, these things are worth \$100k+ per year.

I am pretty sure most companies here do that. As venky pointed out here the IT companies include discretionary bonus as part of your offer. But i am not sure that the benefits would come to be \$100K .

About the coffee thing.... this was from the horse's mouth. Aparently one of the companies that came to campus included all those... No wonder nobody went for the interview

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09 Mar 2007, 21:54
jaynayak wrote:
pelihu wrote:
So jaynayak, you think that means their numbers include things (in addtion to coffee) like health care costs, retirement contributions, etc. (I don't know if this is common for companies there). Also, most companies in the US offer things like long-term disability, employee assistance (counseling), child care, etc. for their professional employees. An HR specialist would know, but I think for a professional level employee, these things are worth \$100k+ per year.

I am pretty sure most companies here do that. As venky pointed out here the IT companies include discretionary bonus as part of your offer. But i am not sure that the benefits would come to be \$100K .

About the coffee thing.... this was from the horse's mouth. Aparently one of the companies that came to campus included all those... No wonder nobody went for the interview

And I heard that some IBanks which recruit from the IIMs include office rent in salary. i.e they charge the employee for the cubicle he is using. Is it possible??

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09 Mar 2007, 22:15
died4me wrote:
It is possible that a son of rich got a huge offer from his own father??

I remember that a person from Wharton got 300K salary and 300K signing bonus. Pelihu said that Trump's daughter recently went to Wharton. I suspect that this 600K (not even including any bounus/relo) what Donald paid to his daughter.

Trump's daughter only went to Wharton undergrad. My brother was in her class so I was at her graduation.

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10 Mar 2007, 01:34
Most of the offers seen are inflated. They inculde some training costs as well that company may incur . If they spend 10000 USD on your traininig that may sometimes be considered as part of your salary.

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10 Mar 2007, 01:34

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# IIM Ahmedabad \$\$\$> US ultra-elites???

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