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In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad,

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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 20 Apr 2016, 02:46
sayantanc2k wrote:
AlexGenkins1234 wrote:
chunjuwu wrote:
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it


In one of the sulutions I have seen for this question, spesifically regarding option c it was said that that the use of "had" creates the following time sequence: "he finished his translation", then he "began his translation" and "got pop's compliment".

questions:
1. on option c, does "began his translation" and "got pop's compliment" occued at the same time?
2. Usually when i have several verbs (not v-ing/ed modifiers) and one of them is preceded in had , when building the sequence of time, that verb will be the first?
3. why can't the sequencing of the events "began his translation" and "got pop's compliment" could happend only inside the modifing clause?



1. Need not be. Two incidents that occurred in different times in the past can both be referred by simple past if the sequence is clear or there is no bearing between the incidents.

I parked the car and went inside the shop....correct. (sequence is clear)
I read somewhere that the Dinosaurs ruled the earth millions of years ago. (no bearing)

2. No. The past perfect verb may come later:

The President reported that the general manager had illegally made a lot of money from sales transactions.

3. Sorry, did not understand your query - nothing is mentioned about pope's compliment in the sentence. Moreover, are you asking why CAN'T or why CAN?


Thank for your reply =]

3. Can the sequencing of the events ("began his translation" and "got pop's compliment") be described inside the modifing clause?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2016, 04:39
AlexGenkins1234 wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:


1. Need not be. Two incidents that occurred in different times in the past can both be referred by simple past if the sequence is clear or there is no bearing between the incidents.

I parked the car and went inside the shop....correct. (sequence is clear)
I read somewhere that the Dinosaurs ruled the earth millions of years ago. (no bearing)

2. No. The past perfect verb may come later:

The President reported that the general manager had illegally made a lot of money from sales transactions.

3. Sorry, did not understand your query - nothing is mentioned about pope's compliment in the sentence. Moreover, are you asking why CAN'T or why CAN?


Thank for your reply =]

3. Can the sequencing of the events ("began his translation" and "got pop's compliment") be described inside the modifing clause?


Yes, probably they can be - I have not come across any rule (or reasoning) that they cannot be. As described in point 1, if there is no bearing and the sequencing is not required to be highlighted, both the verbs can be used in simple past even within one modifying clause.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jul 2016, 02:08
Reached 'B' as the answer working on the correct form of 'pronounced'.

I still want to understand if the usage of 'until completion is correct?

chunjuwu wrote:
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jul 2016, 00:40
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jjindal wrote:
Reached 'B' as the answer working on the correct form of 'pronounced'.

I still want to understand if the usage of 'until completion is correct?

chunjuwu wrote:
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it


The usage "...a work that took him seven years until completion.." would also be wrong.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 26 Dec 2016, 15:03
source: Manhattan GMAT SC Navigator Explanation.

Split1) Parallelism. "Pope began" => independent clause + "a work that..." => modifier. "and (a work that)" = parallelism. In other words : "independent clause" + "modifier" and "modifier" => the sequence of modifier 1 and modifier 2 must be in parallel => more specifically in "a work that" must fit with both parts of the sentence. In A) you can see that "Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that and that Johnson pronounced" => a work that X and that Y => there is no X portion at all. In B) "a work that took and that Johnson pronounced" => "a work that took and (a work ) that Johnson pronounced" => Good. C) "a work that had been taken and that Johnson pronounced it as" => "a work that had taken and (a work) that Johnson pronounced it" what is it? it = the work! = redundant meaning => "a work that Johnson pronounced the work". C, D and E have the same problem. A, C, D and E are out.

Split2) Verb: Had taken = Past Perfect => We use past perfect to talk about something that happened before another action in the past, which is usually expressed by the past simple. For example: "I had already eaten my dinner when he called." In this sentence the Pope began his translation in 1713 and finished it after that, so the past perfect cannot apply. C and E are out.

Split3) Meaning. The first three answer choices talk about "a translation of the Iliad" and the last two answer choices talk about "Pope began translating the Iliad". In D and E ",a work" must refer back to the Illiad because "translating" is a verb, not a noun and "a work" = noun modifier. Pope did not create the Illiad himself, Pope created the translation of the Illiad. D and E give the wrong meaning as if "Pope created the Illiad himself" => the modifier has the intention to modify "Pope's translation of the illiad" => the modifier is clearly taking about the translation not the original work. D and E are out.

More about Split3) let's clarify the following, "a work that" is a noun modifier. So, immediately think of the modifier touch rule. However, if you read the first three sentences you will see that the sentence, for instance, "Pope began his translation of the Iliad" => Pope began his translation + vita noun modifier = of the Illiad. So, at first it seems that "a work that" must modify Illiad but upon closer look the words "a work that" must modify the noun "translation" and this is possible thanks to one exception to the modifier rule = a vital modifier can come between the noun and the modified noun. In this sentence you have = noun(translation)+ vita modifier (of the Illiad), noun modifier (a work that). So this goes back to saying that yes "a work that" is a noun modifier that correctly modifies the noun "translation". Further, this will make the last two sentences wrong because "Pope began translating the Illiad" = the only noun is Illiad => "a work that" is looking hungry to match to a noun and the only noun it finds is the Illiad => changes the meaning of the sentence as if Pope himself took 7 years to complete the Illiad or as if Pope himself wrote the Illiad.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 02:24
I can't Believe I am Now Actually Able To Solve SC Questions.
Thanks EGMAT :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here is The Approach I Used

Question
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

Breaking it into Parenthesis
(In 1713), (Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad),( a work) that (, taking him seven years until completion), (and )that (literary critic Samuel Johnson), (Pope’s contemporary), (pronounced the greatest translation in any language.)
There seems to be error in lines between "a work" until "language"

A. (his translation of the Illiad), (a work) that, (taking him seven years until completion), (and) that( literary critic Samuel Johnson), (Pope’s contemporary), (pronounced

B. (his translation of the Illiad), (a work )that (took him seven years to complete and )that (literary critic Samuel Johnson), (Pope’s contemporary), (pronounced
Seems Legit
C. (his translation of the Illiad), (a work )that (had taken seven years to complete and )that (literary critic Samuel Johnson), (Pope’s contemporary), (pronounced it is

D. (translating the Illiad), (a work) that (took seven years until completion and )that (literary critic Samuel Johnson), (Pope’s contemporary), (pronounced it as

E. (translating the Illiad), (a work) that (had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson),( Pope’s contemporary), (pronounced it

chunjuwu wrote:
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it

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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 05 Mar 2017, 03:13
will go with B
C,D,and E have pronoun errors so eliminated .
is my work fine please correct me if i am wrong ?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 11 Mar 2017, 10:23
nks2611 wrote:
will go with B
C,D,and E have pronoun errors so eliminated .
is my work fine please correct me if i am wrong ?


Yes, correct.

Apart from pronoun errors we have tense error, ||ism error and idiom error.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 15 Mar 2017, 19:11
Why is "that took him" a better choice than "that had taken"?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 15 Mar 2017, 23:26
choss75 wrote:
Why is "that took him" a better choice than "that had taken"?


Notice the meaning of the sentence. It says He began some work and this work took him 7 years.

Therefore, Work took him 7 years MUST not happen before he began it. So, HAD is 100% incorrect here as it breaks the sequencing and conveys that the work took him 7 years and then he begun it.

I hope it makes sense.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2017, 23:17
Only B & E are seemed quite good to be OA. I think E could be the answer. E has only 1 ambiguity ' it ' that sounds redundant.
I 've chosen E not B because GMAT always set traps by using past perfect (when 2 situations have been described ) but for B it's not ; WHY??
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2017, 23:56
soumya170293 wrote:
Only B & E are seemed quite good to be OA. I think E could be the answer. E has only 1 ambiguity ' it ' that sounds redundant.
I 've chosen E not B because GMAT always set traps by using past perfect (when 2 situations have been described ) but for B it's not ; WHY??


E has many flaws, other than "it" ambiguity. It says the work has taken 7 years to complete. Who does that work? Alexander or someone else? As per the meaning of the sentence, Alexander tool seven years to complete that work. So, B clearly tells us that.

Next issue: There is a missing modifier that in E, which changes the original meaning of the sentence. Without this modifier, E becomes a run on sentence.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 09 Jun 2017, 01:03
ps_dahiya wrote:
u2lover wrote:
can't go against true guru here :) but B seems to be the best choice...

btw... what is the idiom with pronounced? can we say "pronounced as"?

yes straight B.

pronounce(d) don't take anything

but when used as present participle (i.e pronouncing) then takes "on"
for example: pronouncing on the issues of the day.

See this:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pronounced



Why are we not considering Past perfect even there are 2 incident happening in past.

1)wrote a book and took him 7 years
2) without knowing how the book is his opponent cant judge if its best or not

so there are 2 incidents

help
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2017, 06:41
chunjuwu wrote:
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it



I have one doubt:

Is it correct to write:

that literary critic Samuel Johnson pronounced the greatest translation in any language. Is it same as if I say : Tom pronounced the greatest translation in any language.
And if so why we need "that". Please someone explian .
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jun 2017, 08:16
rocko911 wrote:

Why are we not considering Past perfect even there are 2 incident happening in past.

1)wrote a book and took him 7 years
2) without knowing how the book is his opponent cant judge if its best or not

so there are 2 incidents

help


Hi rocko911 ,

Past perfect is used when we explicitly want to tell which event occurred before another in the past.

When the sentence clearly tells us the sequence, you don't need to use past perfect.

In this question, it is clear that writing a book took him 7 years. First he began and then completed. So, we don't need to use past perfect.

gmat4varun wrote:
I have one doubt:

Is it correct to write:

that literary critic Samuel Johnson pronounced the greatest translation in any language. Is it same as if I say : Tom pronounced the greatest translation in any language.
And if so why we need "that". Please someone explian .


Hi gmat4varun ,

While comparing the first sentence "that literary critic Samuel Johnson pronounced the greatest translation in any language" with "Tom pronounced the greatest translation in any language.", you didn't realize the change in meaning.

The sentence in the original equation says a work took him seven years and a work the someone pronounced the greatest translation. This is actually the use of passive voice. Author is saying work was pronounced the greatest translation. Here, the author is "literary critic Samuel Johnson".

Did you notice the real meaning of the sentence now?

Remember, meaning is very important while concluding any right answer.

I hope it makes sense. :)
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 08 Oct 2017, 10:25
I still dont understand why many comments above said: "it" is redundant?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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BinhFantasia wrote:
I still dont understand why many comments above said: "it" is redundant?


Hello BinhFantasia - Lets first understand what 'it' in this case refers to? And as you might have guessed the pronoun 'it' is referring to 'work' here.

Now lets replace the underlined portion with the option C

With Pronoun 'it'

In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is the greatest translation in any language.

Replacing pronoun 'it' with a noun

In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced work is the greatest translation in any language.

If you replace 'it' with 'work' you can see that we are unnecessarily repeating or rather referencing the word 'work' here - the word 'that' already refers to 'work' and hence the usage of 'it' is redundant here.

Hope this helps!
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink]

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New post 01 Mar 2018, 14:25
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced (began-taking wrong tense)
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced (clear and to the point)
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is (it is - not required because that and it refer to same antecedent)
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as( that.....................it as...refer to same antecendent therefore "it as" not required).
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it ("it" not required here ,"that" is missing before "literary critic samuel johnson")

hope this is of some help!! :-)
Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad,   [#permalink] 01 Mar 2018, 14:25

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