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In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud

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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Dec 2017, 12:21
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septwibowo wrote:

I remember your lesson about pronoun in two clauses : GMAT always follows a pattern that pronoun as a Subject in the second clause must have an antecedent in the form of Subject in the first clause.

Using this reasoning, I eliminated A and chose D. Is my reasoning wrong here?

Thank you!

Whoa, easy with the extreme language! I didn't say that the GMAT always follows that pattern, or that the subject in the second clause must refer back to the subject of the first clause. The idea is that if the subject of the second clause is a pronoun, it CAN refer back to the subject of the first clause -- even if there are a ton of other potential referents in the sentence.

Here's a variation on the example I used in the webinar:

    Cucumbers are more expensive than tomatoes in grocery stores in Western states, and they also taste like poo.

On the face of things, "they" looks ambiguous: the pronoun could refer to "states", "stores", "tomatoes", or "cucumbers." But this sort of construction appears occasionally on the GMAT, and the exam doesn't seem to have a problem with it: because "they" is the subject of the second clause, it CAN refer back to the subject of the first clause, with no worries about ambiguity.

But that doesn't mean that the 2nd subject ALWAYS refers back to the subject of the 1st clause. It certainly doesn't have to. It's just that in a sentence like my cucumber example, you don't really have to worry about pronoun ambiguity.

For anybody that didn't already suffer through it, the full webinar on pronouns is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhN_KU1bSKU

I hope this helps!
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jan 2018, 00:40
I could narrow down the options to A and B , I thought A cannot be the answer because of the use of which. here which can refer to what?? can someone help me with this. Thank you
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jan 2018, 14:19
1
longhaul123 wrote:
I could narrow down the options to A and B , I thought A cannot be the answer because of the use of which. here which can refer to what?? can someone help me with this. Thank you

A couple of related examples:

  • The city in which I live has more than 120 breweries. --> "in which I live" describes the city; in other words, I live in a certain city, and it has more than 120 breweries
  • The website for which I write SC explanations was created by a friendly Ukrainian genius. --> "for which I write SC explanations" describes "the website"; in other words, I write SC explanations for a certain website, and that website was created by a friendly Ukrainian genius ;)

On to the answer choice (A)...
Quote:
In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.

Using the same logic as my examples above, "from which new growth proceeds" describes "the buds." In other words, new growth proceeds from the buds -- and the sentence is telling us that a thick layer of needles protects those buds.

I also address this issue -- somewhat indirectly -- in this post: https://gmatclub.com/forum/in-some-type ... l#p1984130

I hope this helps!
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jan 2018, 22:42
AbdurRakib wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review 2017

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 739
Page: 696

In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.

(A) a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well

(B) a thick needle layer protects buds from where new growth proceeds, so that they can withstand forest fires relatively well

(C) a thick layer of needles protect the buds from which new growth proceeds; thus, they are able to withstand relatively well any forest fires

(D) since the buds from which new growth proceeds are protected by a thick layer needle layer, consequently they can therefore withstand forest fires relatively well

(E) because the buds where new growth happens are protected by a thick layer of needles, they are able to withstand forest fires relatively easily as a result

According to me
A:- keep option "a" as subject is thick layer verb is protects and they correctly refer to needles.
B:- option B is incorrect because a thick needle is not appropriate than a thick layer of needles and they wrongly refer to bugs.
c:- Option C is incorrect because of subject verb disagreement a thick layer is singular and verb used is plural.
D&E:- is incorrect first of all passive which is not preferred by gmat and they are not concise And in option D consequently and therefore are redundant as both have same meaning
and in option E use of where in place of which is wrong.
kudoos please if you like my explanation.
thanks in advance.
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Mar 2018, 18:30
AbdurRakib wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review 2017

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 739
Page: 696

In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.

(A) a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well

(B) a thick needle layer protects buds from where new growth proceeds, so that they can withstand forest fires relatively well

(C) a thick layer of needles protect the buds from which new growth proceeds; thus, they are able to withstand relatively well any forest fires

(D) since the buds from which new growth proceeds are protected by a thick layer needle layer, consequently they can therefore withstand forest fires relatively well

(E) because the buds where new growth happens are protected by a thick layer of needles, they are able to withstand forest fires relatively easily as a result


All the errors perfectly covered in the previous posts but how about the Pronoun 'THEY' in the choice A. There are two logical antecedents to this 1. Needles 2. Buds. Which one does the pronoun refer??
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2018, 03:51
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GMATNinja VeritasPrepKarishma

consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.

Can experts please comment as to why the above sentence is an independent clause?
I believe in spite of having a subject and verb, it communicates partial meaning since
we do not have any antecedence for pronoun - they.
A semi-colon is used to join two independent clauses.
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2018, 11:01
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1
adkikani wrote:
GMATNinja VeritasPrepKarishma

consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.

Can experts please comment as to why the above sentence is an independent clause?
I believe in spite of having a subject and verb, it communicates partial meaning since
we do not have any antecedence for pronoun - they.
A semi-colon is used to join two independent clauses.

You're undoubtedly familiar with "dependent markers" (although, since, unless, whenever, etc.), which turn an independent clause into a dependent clause. When these markers are present, the "thought" becomes incomplete:

  • "Charlie eats 40 burritos a day." -- Independent clause: complete thought, can stand alone.
  • "Although Charlie eats 40 burritos a day." -- Dependent. To make any sense of a phrase starting with "although", we need some sort of counterpoint to the phrase (something like "he is still perpetually hungry" or "he weighs less than an aircraft carrier"), but it never happens in this case, so it's dependent.

English also features some independent markers, such as "however" or "consequently" -- and these do NOT turn a clause from independent to dependent.

  • "Consequently, they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well."

There's no problem here -- this sentence can absolutely stand alone. Sure, the context is missing, and we need some other information to establish causality -- if we're using "consequently", this sentence presumably needs to be preceded by some evidence for why they are able to withstand forest fires. But that doesn't make the clause grammatically dependent. It just means that we need other sentences to make sense of what's happening.

In a sense, this is similar to using a pronoun in a full, independent sentence: "He likes bhindi masala" is a full sentence, right? No argument there. But we'd need other sentences to give us context on the identity of this fellow who likes bhindi masala. ;)

You might want to check out this article on dependent vs. independent modifiers from the good folks at Purdue OWL: https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/598/1/

I hope this helps!
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 31 May 2018, 14:32
shra1raju wrote:
In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.


All the errors perfectly covered in the previous posts but how about the Pronoun 'THEY' in the choice A. There are two logical antecedents to this 1. Needles 2. Buds. Which one does the pronoun refer??



Hello shra1raju,

I am not sure if you still have this doubt. Here is the explanation nonetheless. :-)

There is only one logical noun that pronoun plural they can refer to - some types of pine tree. See, the sentence says that because of something, they can withstand forest fires relatively better. In forest fires, the trees burn. But because of some factor, some types of pine trees can withstand the forest fires better.

Please note that just because there are multiple plural nouns in the sentence, they all become eligible to be the antecedent of the plural pronoun they. The pronoun must have one logical antecedent. Buds or needles are not the logical antecedent for this pronoun per the context of the sentence.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jun 2018, 23:45
Hi GMATNinja

Thanks for your two cents.

Do you agree that we need a semi-colon before independent marker words as consequently or however
as mentioned in the link you provided?
At least a semi-colon on OA before consequently would have made my life easier to then treat the clause as an independent one.
I hope you see my rationale ;)
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jun 2018, 00:59
A Conjuctive Adverb (consequently) should be preceded by a semi colon and followed by a comma.

Why is comma missing in Choice A?

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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jun 2018, 06:50
1
adkikani wrote:
Hi GMATNinja

Thanks for your two cents.

Do you agree that we need a semi-colon before independent marker words as consequently or however
as mentioned in the link you provided?
At least a semi-colon on OA before consequently would have made my life easier to then treat the clause as an independent one.
I hope you see my rationale ;)

Sure, if "consequently" or "however" is the beginning of the 2nd independent clause in a sentence, then there should be a semicolon preceding it. That's part of why (A) is the correct answer here: "consequently" is preceded by a semicolon.

Shobhit7 wrote:
A Conjuctive Adverb (consequently) should be preceded by a semi colon and followed by a comma.

Why is comma missing in Choice A?

Posted from my mobile device

It's a funny thing: commas have been disappearing from English over the past few decades, so this is somewhat of a grey area now. When I was a kid, our teachers taught us to put commas after words such as "consequently" and "however." But now, those commas are optional. I still use them, but plenty of editors would disagree with me.

Partly because there's disagreement about the correct uses of commas, it's very rare that commas are a deciding factor on the GMAT, unless the comma somehow affects the meaning of the sentence. So in general, you don't want to worry about commas too much on the GMAT. More on that issue -- and on GMAT punctuation in general -- in this video.

I hope this helps!
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Aug 2018, 07:02
In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently (,) they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.

Can someone explains to me why there is no comma after the word "Consequently"?
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2018, 01:28
abhimahna wrote:
brightandamen wrote:
Hi,

Is it correct use "from which" instead of "from where" to modifies "buds"?


Hi brightandamen ,

GMAT is very strict with the use of 'where'.

'Where' MUST always be used to refer to physical places.

Hence, where usage in this sentence is 100% incorrect.


Hello, I'm quite confused on why 'where' is wrong here because it is referring to a physical location : the bud, where growth proceeds.
IMO I think option B is wrong because it changes the meaning of the sentence and "thick" modifies needle instead of 'layer' and option E is just too wordy. Pls help evaluate my understanding... mikemcgarry broall, daagh Souvik Please, I would appreciate if you could clarify thanks.

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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2018, 03:27
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Kem

Bud is not a place. It is a part of a plant(an unopened flower). Whether it is a thick layer of needles or a thick needle layer does not dilute the essence of the text.
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Re: In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2018, 06:53
daagh wrote:
Kem

Bud is not a place. It is a part of a plant(an unopened flower). Whether it is a thick layer of needles or a thick needle layer does not dilute the essence of the text.


Ok, thanks, well understood daagh
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New post 07 Sep 2018, 05:23
Quote:
In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.
The first split I see in option A,B and C is Protect Vs Protects. As the subject here is the "A thick Layer" i.e. singular, protects goes with the singular subject.

Quote:
(A) a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well
There isn't any pronoun ambiguity "they" very well refers to "pine trees". Refer to GMATNinja's pronoun ambiguity video. If there are two independent clauses, the pronoun of the second IC refers to the noun of the first IC. i.e. GMAT always follows a pattern that pronoun as a Subject in the second clause must have an antecedent in the form of Subject in the first clause.
This is the best option. Keep A

Quote:
(B) a thick needle layer protects buds from where new growth proceeds, so that they can withstand forest fires relatively well
This option distorts the intended meaning. "a thick needle" isn't something the author wants to convey. The author wants to convey a "thick layer of needles"
This option goes out.

Quote:
(C) a thick layer of needles protect the buds from which new growth proceeds; thus, they are able to withstand relatively well any forest fires
Goes out for the reason mentioned above.

Quote:
(D) since the buds from which new growth proceeds are protected by a thick needle layer, consequently they can therefore withstand forest fires relatively well
Consequently and Therefore are redundant. Cannot be used together in a sentence. D goes out.

Quote:
(E) because the buds where new growth happens are protected by a thick layer of needles, they are able to withstand forest fires relatively easily as a result
Where incorrectly modifies buds. Usage of where has to be with the physical spaces. Hence E goes out.
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In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Sep 2018, 05:31
AbdurRakib wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review 2017

Practice Question
Question No.: SC 739
Page: 696

In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well.

(A) a thick layer of needles protects the buds from which new growth proceeds; consequently they are able to withstand forest fires relatively well

(B) a thick needle layer protects buds from where new growth proceeds, so that they can withstand forest fires relatively well

(C) a thick layer of needles protect the buds from which new growth proceeds; thus, they are able to withstand relatively well any forest fires

(D) since the buds from which new growth proceeds are protected by a thick layer needle layer, consequently they can therefore withstand forest fires relatively well

(E) because the buds where new growth happens are protected by a thick layer of needles, they are able to withstand forest fires relatively easily as a result

Layer of Needles

(A) CORRECT

(B) Modifier (from where)

(C) Subject-Verb (a layer protect); Modifier (relatively well)

(D) Meaning (since, consequently, therefore)

(E) Meaning (because, as a result)


First glance

The beginning of each answer changes substantially, signaling possible global issues with Structure, Meaning, Modifiers, or Parallelism.

Issues

(1) Modifier: from where

Compare the original to answer (B):

(A) A layer … protects the buds from which new growth proceeds

(B) A layer … protects buds from where new growth proceeds

From which may sound funny to your ear, but it is a proper (though formal) construction. It is a form of inverted modifier and this is what it’s doing:

the buds from which new growth proceeds

→ New growth proceeds from the buds

If you can “flip around” the modifier to look like the second sentence and that sentence is correct, then the usage of from which in the inverted sentence is correct, too.

From where, on the other hand, is not an appropriate modifier construction. The buds are a thing (which), not a location (where). Eliminate choice (B).

(2) Subject-Verb: a layer protect

The first three choices use the same opening structure but (A) and (B) say that a layer of needles protects the bud, while (C) says that a layer of needles protect the bud. Which is correct?

The subject is the singular layer, not the plural needles. Of needles is a prepositional phrase; a prepositional phrase isn’t allowed to be the main subject of a sentence. Therefore, the correct verb pairing is the singular protects. Eliminate choice (C) for using a plural verb with a singular subject.

(3) Meaning / Redundancy: since, consequently, therefore; because, as a result

The beginning of answers (D) and (E) differ from the first three answers. They begin with cause-effect words (but the first three choices have nothing like this). Check the rest of each answer to see what happens with the cause-effect relationship.

Answer (D) says Since (something is true), consequently they can therefore (do something else). This is redundant—it’s necessary to use just one of these cause-effect signal words, not all three. Likewise, answer (E) uses both because and as a result when only one is necessary. Eliminate both (D) and (E) for redundant meaning.

(4) Modifier: relatively well

This one is last because it’s very hard to spot. Some native speakers will just “hear” the issue here, but many will not notice it.

When using the construction X is able to withstand Y, it’s preferable to state what Y is and then add any other modifiers: The buds are able to withstand forest fires relatively well. If relatively well is placed before forest fires, then it’s possible to think that the words are modifying just the [orest fires themselves (the forest fires are relatively well) rather than the whole action (the fact that the buds can withstand the fires well).

The Correct Answer

Correct answer (A) properly uses the from which construction (even though it may sound funny!). It also has just one cause-effect word (consequently).

Note: Did you get distracted by the pronoun they, wondering whether it might be ambiguous because it could refer to needles or buds? Don’t worry; you’re not alone! When you think you may have an ambiguous pronoun, scan the five answers. If all five use that same pronoun (as is the case in this problem), then the pronoun is not an issue. Look for something else.

AbdurRakib A little typo that needs rectification:
Option D is: since the buds from which new growth proceeds are protected by a thick needle layer, consequently they can therefore withstand forest fires relatively well
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In some types of pine tree, a thick layer of needles, protects the bud

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