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In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in

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In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Aug 2012, 18:41
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In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?


A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.

B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.

D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
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New post 18 Aug 2012, 22:09
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The crucial factors here are; 1. Students should join a business program in MBA International Business. 2. Prior to 1991, there is no hint that microeconomics was necessary. Prior to 1995 does not mean, it is after 1991.

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995…. It could be even before 1991, in which case, he need not have taken even microeconomics. Wrong
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995. …. It is just not Business Program; it should be Business Program of MBA in International Business. Wrong
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994…. Prior to 1994 does not imply, the joining was after 1991. So C is gone
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991….. Prior to 1991, there was no need for microeconomics seminar
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995. --- Precisely fixes the joining between the two ends; correct choice.

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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Aug 2012, 11:19
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Some of the posts above seem not to capture the logic of the question. The only relevant fact is this: if someone joined the International Business program after 1994, they took Applied Economics. So (taking the contrapositive) if someone didn't take Applied Economics, they didn't join the International Business program after 1994. So the answer is C (though C needs to say 'prior to 1995', and not 'prior to 1994' to be perfectly correct).

All of the detail about Microeconomics is simply irrelevant. It is certainly possible that some International Business students took Microeconomics prior to 1990, which is why E is wrong.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Aug 2012, 22:01
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Ian wrote

Quote:
All of the detail about Microeconomics is simply irrelevant. It is certainly possible that some International Business students took Microeconomics prior to 1990, which is why E is wrong.


But the question asks:

Quote:
If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?


Can we see miss the reference to Microeconomics in the question? On the contrary, the question is not mentioning anything Applied Economics. I think AE is not part of the concern of the question, while ME is very much

Let us look t the temporal order.

Before 1991: neither ME nor AE
1991 to 1194: only ME
1995 onwards: Only AE

Now where can you fix a person with ME? You can’t anywhere other than between 1990 and 1995. That is the reason E prevails.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
This simply means that if a student took MBA in International business, he should have entered before 1994. Does that imply that the University stopped its program of MBA in International Business after 1994?

C has too many logical holes, while E can be sustaned.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Aug 2012, 22:26
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daagh wrote:
Let us look t the temporal order.

Before 1991: neither ME nor AE
1991 to 1194: only ME
1995 onwards: Only AE

Now where can you fix a person with ME? You can’t anywhere other than between 1990 and 1995. That is the reason E prevails.


No, the answer is not E, and the information about Microeconomics is indeed irrelevant. There is nothing at all stated in the question about what courses people took prior to 1991. Maybe they took Microeconomics, maybe they took Applied Ecomonics, maybe they took both or maybe they took neither. You seem to be assuming they took neither - that information is not found anywhere in the question.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Mar 2015, 06:38
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nirakrish wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

Please explain why it is C.


Responding to a pm:

What we know from the argument:
- All candidates who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics (we don't know anything about candidates who entered in 1990 or before. Just that those that entered after 1990 definitely took Microeconomics. So if someone entered after 1990, we can say that he took a seminar on Microeconomics. But if we know that someone took a seminar on Microeconomics, can we say that he entered after 1990? No. Someone could have taken this seminar in 1990 or before too.)

- All candidates who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics (same logic as above)

A student took Microeconomics seminar but not Applied Economics.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
Had he entered in 1994 or after, he would have taken the Applied Economics seminar. He did not take it means he entered prior to 1995. The option needs to say 1995, not 1994. So I don't like this as the answer.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
Can we say that he entered after 1990? Not necessary, right? As we discussed above, if someone took the Microeconomics seminar, it doesn't mean he entered after 1990. He could have entered at any time. This is not correct for sure.

So, if I had this question in the exam as is (which I don't like), I would have gone for (A). Note that the question says "If a student in the Business program described above" - I would take it to mean "MBA in International Business". Option (A) correctly uses prior to 1995 and I would hence take it to be true.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Mar 2015, 08:34
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
nirakrish wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

Please explain why it is C.


Responding to a pm:

What we know from the argument:
- All candidates who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics (we don't know anything about candidates who entered in 1990 or before. Just that those that entered after 1990 definitely took Microeconomics. So if someone entered after 1990, we can say that he took a seminar on Microeconomics. But if we know that someone took a seminar on Microeconomics, can we say that he entered after 1990? No. Someone could have taken this seminar in 1990 or before too.)

- All candidates who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics (same logic as above)

A student took Microeconomics seminar but not Applied Economics.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
Had he entered in 1994 or after, he would have taken the Applied Economics seminar. He did not take it means he entered prior to 1995. The option needs to say 1995, not 1994. So I don't like this as the answer.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
Can we say that he entered after 1990? Not necessary, right? As we discussed above, if someone took the Microeconomics seminar, it doesn't mean he entered after 1990. He could have entered at any time. This is not correct for sure.

So, if I had this question in the exam as is (which I don't like), I would have gone for (A). Note that the question says "If a student in the Business program described above" - I would take it to mean "MBA in International Business". Option (A) correctly uses prior to 1995 and I would hence take it to be true.




Thanks for explanation, Karishma. So, here are we assuming unstated assumption that there was Seminar on Microeconomics even before 1990 and seminar on Applied Economics before 1994 ? As this is not stated in whole stimulus anywhere..this is really a confusing one :(




Again, thanks for your help !
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Mar 2015, 19:46
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GauravSolanky wrote:
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
nirakrish wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

Please explain why it is C.


Responding to a pm:

What we know from the argument:
- All candidates who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics (we don't know anything about candidates who entered in 1990 or before. Just that those that entered after 1990 definitely took Microeconomics. So if someone entered after 1990, we can say that he took a seminar on Microeconomics. But if we know that someone took a seminar on Microeconomics, can we say that he entered after 1990? No. Someone could have taken this seminar in 1990 or before too.)

- All candidates who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics (same logic as above)

A student took Microeconomics seminar but not Applied Economics.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
Had he entered in 1994 or after, he would have taken the Applied Economics seminar. He did not take it means he entered prior to 1995. The option needs to say 1995, not 1994. So I don't like this as the answer.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
Can we say that he entered after 1990? Not necessary, right? As we discussed above, if someone took the Microeconomics seminar, it doesn't mean he entered after 1990. He could have entered at any time. This is not correct for sure.

So, if I had this question in the exam as is (which I don't like), I would have gone for (A). Note that the question says "If a student in the Business program described above" - I would take it to mean "MBA in International Business". Option (A) correctly uses prior to 1995 and I would hence take it to be true.




Thanks for explanation, Karishma. So, here are we assuming unstated assumption that there was Seminar on Microeconomics even before 1990 and seminar on Applied Economics before 1994 ? As this is not stated in whole stimulus anywhere..this is really a confusing one :(




Again, thanks for your help !



No. Look, here is the important point - We don't know. We cannot infer anything about Microeconomics and that is why it cannot be a part of our conclusion.

Take another example:
If you go to Danny's place after 5:00 pm, you will find him dancing.

This tells us that after 5, you will definitely find him dancing. Does it mean that you CANNOT find him dancing at 4:00 pm? No, it doesn't. We don't know anything about 4:00 pm. He may or may not be dancing at that time. So say you went to Danny's place and saw him dancing. Can you say that you went after 5:00 pm? Not necessary, right? We don't know at what all times he dances. All we know is that he certainly dances after 5:00 so if you go to his place after 5:00, you will see him dancing. He could be dancing at other times also, we don't know.

The argument is exactly the same here: After 1990, everyone must have taken the Microeconomics seminar. But do we know whether they took it in or before 1990 too? No, we don't know. So can we say whether he entered after 1990 or before? No, we don't know. Hence, your conclusion should not have the 1990 part and hence (E) is wrong.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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nahid78 wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.
If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?
A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

Explain plz...


Okay. I would argue against E being the correct answer, and for C being the correct answer.

The argument states that

1. ALL MBA IB students after 1990 took Micro Econ.

2. ALL MBA IB students after 1994 took App Econ.

Does 1 mean that NO MBA IB STUDENT TOOK MICRO ECON BEFORE 1990?

Certainly not. Yes, we know for certainty that each and every MBA IB student took Micro Econ after 1990, but we cannot conclude the above. This similar reasoning goes for statement 2 also.

And thus, we cannot say for certainty that the student entered between 1990 and 1994, inclusive. But, we can certainly say that the student entered before 1994 because he/she did not take App Econ, because we know that each and every MBA IB took App Econ.

What's the source?

Expert comments welcomed.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jun 2018, 16:54
nirakrish wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

Please explain why it is C.


We can eliminate B, D, E right away.

A student candidate in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics -----> he definitely entered the program before 1994
(He could take a seminar on Microeconomics in 1989 for example - the passge does not forbid it)

So A or C. Bit if he is not a candidate nothing in the passage is matter. A can be true or can be false. He coul take his class in 1996.

So C.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2018, 02:57
I am still confused between A and C. Is a wrong because it does not mention candidates for MBA in International Business.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2018, 06:01
sony1000 wrote:
I am still confused between A and C. Is a wrong because it does not mention candidates for MBA in International Business.


A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.

A is wrong because usual student (not a candidate) could enter the program after 1995 and it would be ok with the passage
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2018, 09:04
IanStewart wrote:
Some of the posts above seem not to capture the logic of the question. The only relevant fact is this: if someone joined the International Business program after 1994, they took Applied Economics. So (taking the contrapositive) if someone didn't take Applied Economics, they didn't join the International Business program after 1994. So the answer is C (though C needs to say 'prior to 1995', and not 'prior to 1994' to be perfectly correct).

All of the detail about Microeconomics is simply irrelevant. It is certainly possible that some International Business students took Microeconomics prior to 1990, which is why E is wrong.




But can you prove that from the given argument that some international business students took microeconomics prior to 1990. You cannot given the given fact set.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jun 2018, 09:54
I think this is a poor question. C needs to say 1995, not 1994.
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In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 11 Oct 2018, 02:47
bb: Could you validate this question? There are three expert replies to this one and all seem to disagree with each other.

GMATNinja GMATNinjatwo Bunuel (If you could please address this one) VeritasKarishma

Originally posted by rever08 on 10 Oct 2018, 05:50.
Last edited by rever08 on 11 Oct 2018, 02:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Oct 2018, 09:58
From my understanding, answer should b E.
I agree with explanation given by daagh sir.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Oct 2018, 22:01
VeritasKarishma wrote:
nirakrish wrote:
In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics, and all candidates for the MBA in International Business who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics.

If a student in the Business program described above took a seminar on Microeconomics but did not take a seminar on Applied Economics, which of the following must be true?

A. The student entered the Business program prior to 1995.
B. The student entered the Business program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
D. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1991.
E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.

Please explain why it is C.


Responding to a pm:

What we know from the argument:
- All candidates who entered the program after 1990 took a seminar on Microeconomics (we don't know anything about candidates who entered in 1990 or before. Just that those that entered after 1990 definitely took Microeconomics. So if someone entered after 1990, we can say that he took a seminar on Microeconomics. But if we know that someone took a seminar on Microeconomics, can we say that he entered after 1990? No. Someone could have taken this seminar in 1990 or before too.)

- All candidates who entered the program after 1994 took a seminar on Applied Economics (same logic as above)

A student took Microeconomics seminar but not Applied Economics.

C. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program prior to 1994.
Had he entered in 1994 or after, he would have taken the Applied Economics seminar. He did not take it means he entered prior to 1995. The option needs to say 1995, not 1994. So I don't like this as the answer.

E. If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995.
Can we say that he entered after 1990? Not necessary, right? As we discussed above, if someone took the Microeconomics seminar, it doesn't mean he entered after 1990. He could have entered at any time. This is not correct for sure.

So, if I had this question in the exam as is (which I don't like), I would have gone for (A). Note that the question says "If a student in the Business program described above" - I would take it to mean "MBA in International Business". Option (A) correctly uses prior to 1995 and I would hence take it to be true.


Hi VeritasKarishma

Again a very lucid explanation, many Thanks.

In the case where Option 'C' would have said 1995 instead of 1994, then what could have been the answer between 'A' and 'C'.

Can this be a case ever, and if yes, will the better answer be option 'C' because it states the name of the MBA program ?

Saurabh

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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Oct 2018, 12:52
rever08 wrote:
bb: Could you validate this question? There are three expert replies to this one and all seem to disagree with each other.

GMATNinja GMATNinjatwo Bunuel (If you could please address this one) VeritasKarishma

I hate to say this, but this question has a few flaws (a couple of typos and some non-standard capitalization), and it clearly isn't GMAC's work. So I wouldn't lose even the slightest bit of your time worrying about this one. Stick with the official stuff. :)
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In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Oct 2018, 12:59
GMATNinja wrote:
rever08 wrote:
bb: Could you validate this question? There are three expert replies to this one and all seem to disagree with each other.

GMATNinja GMATNinjatwo Bunuel (If you could please address this one) VeritasKarishma

I hate to say this, but this question has a few flaws (a couple of typos and some non-standard capitalization), and it clearly isn't GMAC's work. So I wouldn't lose even the slightest bit of your time worrying about this one. Stick with the official stuff. :)


Thank you! Will stick with the Official questions and the ones you have posted an explanation to. :)
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Oct 2018, 11:55
If the student was a candidate for the MBA in International Business, then the student entered the program after 1990 and prior to 1995. E is not the right ans because, prior to 1995 does not mean after 1994. After 94 might mean after the starting of 94.
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Re: In the Business program at a university, all candidates for the MBA in   [#permalink] 13 Oct 2018, 11:55
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