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# In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the

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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 09:07
Vips0000 wrote:
Jp27 wrote:
Vips0000 wrote:

True, option A looks for potential alternatives for pollination. But it looks for "insect pollination". But even if we find insect X, Y or Z - we still need to evaluate and find out if those insects would not be affected because of pesticides. This definitely can not help in evaluating the argument.
As far as D is concerned - it is not talking about stopping the trend - but it talks about reversal of trend. What it means is if we reduce pesticide bee population will increase -> which shows pollination would happen again -> consumer can get fruits. So it weakens argument when answered in affirmative.

The OE is definitely not correct.

I guess D is correct answer because the conclusion states "Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers."
That is -> the conclusion is contingent on the basis only when "honey bee population continues this drastic decline". Per D, if we can reverse or not reverse the trend is irrelevant to issue of getting fruits (given the bees continue to decline)
In other words, we have evaluate all the answer choice considering what will happen if the trend continues.

Makes sense?

Cheers

cheers

Not really!

Yes conclusion is -
"if bee population continues to decline-> most fruits will no longer be available to consumers"

most basic logical meaning of this?
if population doesnt decline (or increase -reversing the trend!) -> fruits may be available to consumers.
Which is option D. So it matters!

This (bolded) is wrong logic
If I'm in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm in Singapore.
From this you conclude ->
If Im NOT in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm NOT in Singapore -

Clearly wrong. I could be at some other place in Singapore such as Ang Mo Kio
Correct Inference is
If im NOT in Singapore then I'm Definitely NOT in Pasir Ris New Town -> this is the correct inference.

Now?
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 09:25
Jp27 wrote:

This (bolded) is wrong logic
If I'm in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm in Singapore.
From this you conclude ->
If Im NOT in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm NOT in Singapore -

Clearly wrong. I could be at some other place in Singapore such as Ang Mo Kio
Correct Inference is
If im NOT in Singapore then I'm Definitely NOT in Pasir Ris New Town -> this is the correct inference.

Now?

Sorry dude.. but these examples are like comparing apples to oranges.

if bee population continues to decline-> most fruits will no longer be available to consumers
This is cause and its effect

While this one is not ->
If I'm in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm in Singapore.
It is just logical deduction.
It will be negated as :
If i'm not in singapore then I'm not in pasir ris new town.

I'll give u one more example -

Cause and effect:
If it rains, I'll get wet
If it doesnt rain - I'll not get wet!

Logical deduction-
Mumbai is in india.
I'm in Mumbai -> then I'm in india
In this case negation can not happen as u did, It can be done as ->
If i'm not in india -> then i'm not in mumbai.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 09:36
Vips0000 wrote:
Jp27 wrote:

This (bolded) is wrong logic
If I'm in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm in Singapore.
From this you conclude ->
If Im NOT in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm NOT in Singapore -

Clearly wrong. I could be at some other place in Singapore such as Ang Mo Kio
Correct Inference is
If im NOT in Singapore then I'm Definitely NOT in Pasir Ris New Town -> this is the correct inference.

Now?

Sorry dude.. but these examples are like comparing apples to oranges.

if bee population continues to decline-> most fruits will no longer be available to consumers
This is cause and its effect

While this one is not ->
If I'm in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm in Singapore.
It is just logical deduction.
It will be negated as :
If i'm not in singapore then I'm not in pasir ris new town.

I'll give u one more example -

Cause and effect:
If it rains, I'll get wet
If it doesnt rain - I'll not get wet!

Logical deduction-
Mumbai is in india.
I'm in Mumbai -> then I'm in india
In this case negation can not happen as u did, It can be done as ->
If i'm not in india -> then i'm not in mumbai.

No dude. When you start a statement as you have done here, with IF...

Vips0000 wrote:
Cause and effect:
If it rains, I'll get wet
If it doesnt rain - I'll not get wet!

Then IT'S ALWAYS CONDITIONAL NOT CAUSALITY. you can still wet when someone pours water on you!

If I'm in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm in Singapore.
If im NOT in Singapore then I'm Definitely NOT in Pasir Ris New Town

Mumbai is in india.
If i'm not in india -> then i'm not in mumbai.

I don't see any difference between two. but you claim otherwise.

Cheers
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 09:41
JP..
I hope you are answering D in the right manner.
D says : Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
You will answer in either yes or no, so as to get the contrasting solutions.
If the answer is yes, then reducing the use of pesticides in US reverses the decline in honeybee population. RESULT- There will not be any further decline in honeybee population. Hence there will not be any decline in the population of major pollinators of fruits and hence fruits can be made avaliable to the consumers in US. Acts as a weakener.
If the answer is no, then reducing the use of pesticides in US will not reverse the decline in honeybee population. RESULT:- The decline will continue and hence consumers will not be getting fruits. Acts as a strengthener.
Now this makes sense
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 09:49
Jp27 wrote:
If I'm in Pasir Ris New Town then I'm in Singapore.
If im NOT in Singapore then I'm Definitely NOT in Pasir Ris New Town

Mumbai is in india.
If i'm not in india -> then i'm not in mumbai.

I don't see any difference between two. but you claim otherwise.

Cheers

Difference is in these statements: -

If statement is:
Mumbai is in india.

Logical deduction->
If i'm in mubai ->then i'm in india

Correct Negation
If i'm not in india -> then i'm not in mumbai.
Incorrect Negation
If i'm not in mumbai-> then i'm not in india

Having explained that - I think both of us are not going to be convinced. I rest my case
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 09:50
Hey marcab,
You too just proved D matters in evaluating the argument. Question asks for "least" case.
JP?
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Last edited by Vips0000 on 14 Nov 2012, 10:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 10:16
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Vips0000 wrote:
nelz007 wrote:
In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the United States has been cut in half. The decline is due primarily to the increasing use of pesticides in the United States, as well as to the introduction of two types of mites that weaken and kill the bees. Honeybees are the primary pollinators for a variety of important fruit crops, including oranges, apples, grapes, peaches, cranberries and watermelons. Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.

In evaluating the conclusion, which of the following questions would be LEAST useful to answer?

A Are there other insect pollinators that could pollinate these fruit crops instead of the honeybee?
B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
C Is it feasible for humans to hand-pollinate the fruits that have been pollinated by bees?
D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
E Is it possible to genetically engineer fruit-producing plants so that they no longer require pollination?

Conclusion is: if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.
Lets see each choice one by one.

A Are there other insect pollinators that could pollinate these fruit crops instead of the honeybee?
Even if the ans to this question is yes, chances are pesticides would eliminate those insects as well. note, we are evaluating this conclusion in the light of decline in bee population due to pesticides.
Therefore yes or no in this question does not matter in evaluating the argument.

B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
conclusion is that most fruits will no longer be available to customer. If the ans to this question is no that means there will be pollination and there will be fruits. if ans to this question is yes then we know that conclusion holds good. So this question helps.

C Is it feasible for humans to hand-pollinate the fruits that have been pollinated by bees?
Yes/no to this question provides alternate method of pollination. if yes ->pollination -> fruits. if no -> no pollination -> no fruit. So this question helps.

D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
yes would mean if population continues to decline we can reverse the trend.-> continue pollination->fruits!
no would mean we can not reverse the trend -> no pollination->no fruits.

E Is it possible to genetically engineer fruit-producing plants so that they no longer require pollination?[/
in this choice we are just eliminating middle man pollination of our other answer choices.. yes->fruits, no->no fruits.

Hence ans A it is.

No the answer here is D.

You are concerned ONLY of pollination or something related directly to it

The least is something that talks about others stuff.

For the argument at end: pesticide is the LEAST for evaluating the argument because is not the main point

Quote:
In evaluating the conclusion, which of the following questions would be LEAST useful to answer?

A Are there other insect pollinators that could pollinate these fruit crops instead of the honeybee?
B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions (the pollination is implied), like Chile and New Zealand?
C Is it feasible for humans to hand-pollinate the fruits that have been pollinated by bees?
D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
E Is it possible to genetically engineer fruit-producing plants so that they no longer require pollination?

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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 20:23
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
nelz007 wrote:
In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the United States has been cut in half. The decline is due primarily to the increasing use of pesticides in the United States, as well as to the introduction of two types of mites that weaken and kill the bees. Honeybees are the primary pollinators for a variety of important fruit crops, including oranges, apples, grapes, peaches, cranberries and watermelons. Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.

In evaluating the conclusion, which of the following questions would be LEAST useful to answer?

A Are there other insect pollinators that could pollinate these fruit crops instead of the honeybee?
B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
C Is it feasible for humans to hand-pollinate the fruits that have been pollinated by bees?
D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
E Is it possible to genetically engineer fruit-producing plants so that they no longer require pollination?

Responding to 3 pms on this question!

I couldn't recall the honeybee question offhand but was convinced that it must be tricky if people are this unsettled because of it. But mind you, in my opinion, the question is straightforward. All you need to do is focus on what the question is asking you. Do not let emotions interfere!

In all our strengthen/weaken questions we tell you to look at the conclusion. Try to strengthen/weaken that. Here the question clearly asks you to figure out what will not help in evaluating the CONCLUSION.

What is the conclusion?

"If the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers."

The conclusion is that if the honey bee population continues to decline, then consumers will not get fruit. What you have to evaluate is this "If the honeybee population continues to decline, will the consumers get fruit?". Basically, we are wondering whether there are alternative ways of pollination or getting fruit.

A Are there other insect pollinators that could pollinate these fruit crops instead of the honeybee?
Alternative method of pollination

B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
Alternative method of obtaining fruit

C Is it feasible for humans to hand-pollinate the fruits that have been pollinated by bees?
Alternative method of pollination

D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
Doesn't help in evaluating the conclusion. The conclusion clearly says that if the decline continues, fruits will not be available. We don't have to question whether there are ways to reverse the decline. The point is - if the decline happens, can we do something.

E Is it possible to genetically engineer fruit-producing plants so that they no longer require pollination?
Alternative method of obtaining fruit

Not satisfactory.

How does A give you an alternative for polliation? if bee population is declining due to pesticide, can we turn a blind eye to the fact that pesticides would eliminate insects too? And assume that we got one way of pollination?

Also the statement:
D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
Doesn't help in evaluating the conclusion. The conclusion clearly says that if the decline continues, fruits will not be available. We don't have to question whether there are ways to reverse the decline. The point is - if the decline happens, can we do something.

"The conclusion clearly says that if the decline continues, fruits will not be available". yes it does. And that is what we have to evaluate.

We dont have to question if there are ways to reverse the decline. But 'consider'- if there is a method that can 'reverse' (note:reverse, Not STOP) the decline, would it impact the conclusion?
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 22:18
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
nelz007 wrote:
In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the United States has been cut in half. The decline is due primarily to the increasing use of pesticides in the United States, as well as to the introduction of two types of mites that weaken and kill the bees. Honeybees are the primary pollinators for a variety of important fruit crops, including oranges, apples, grapes, peaches, cranberries and watermelons. Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.

In evaluating the conclusion, which of the following questions would be LEAST useful to answer?

A Are there other insect pollinators that could pollinate these fruit crops instead of the honeybee?
B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
C Is it feasible for humans to hand-pollinate the fruits that have been pollinated by bees?
D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
E Is it possible to genetically engineer fruit-producing plants so that they no longer require pollination?

What is the conclusion?

"If the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers."

The conclusion is that if the honey bee population continues to decline, then consumers will not get fruit. What you have to evaluate is this "If the honeybee population continues to decline, will the consumers get fruit?". Basically, we are wondering whether there are alternative ways of pollination or getting fruit.

D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
Doesn't help in evaluating the conclusion. The conclusion clearly says that if the decline continues, fruits will not be available. We don't have to question whether there are ways to reverse the decline. The point is - if the decline happens, can we do something.

Hi karishma..thanks for the reply but still I am not convinced over the explanation of D. Can you please elaborate more?
I still feel that D can be answered in as weakener and strengthener.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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14 Nov 2012, 23:24

D will do the least to evaluate the conclusion. The catch lies in the conclusion. Lets rephrase the conclusion.

Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.

It is a prediction based on the condition. We have to evaluate the prediction in the light of this condition only. Thus, the objective is to evaluate whether fruits will be available if the honey bee population declines. We are already told that the Population of honey bee is important for the pollination of fruits so reversing the condition will not help in evaluating the prediction. The reversal of the population is out of scope as we need to check whether the fruits can be made available if the honey bee population keeps declining.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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15 Nov 2012, 01:27
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Vips0000 wrote:
How does A give you an alternative for polliation? if bee population is declining due to pesticide, can we turn a blind eye to the fact that pesticides would eliminate insects too? And assume that we got one way of pollination?

We do not know whether the insects get affected. It's an 'evaluate' question. You first evaluate whether someone else can pollinate. Once you find someone, then you will evaluate the status of those insects and what affects them etc. You are jumping the gun by saying that the same pesticides will affect every species of insects and hence no other possible pollinator can survive.

Vips0000 wrote:
Also the statement:
D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations?
Doesn't help in evaluating the conclusion. The conclusion clearly says that if the decline continues, fruits will not be available. We don't have to question whether there are ways to reverse the decline. The point is - if the decline happens, can we do something.

"The conclusion clearly says that if the decline continues, fruits will not be available". yes it does. And that is what we have to evaluate.

We dont have to question if there are ways to reverse the decline. But 'consider'- if there is a method that can 'reverse' (note:reverse, Not STOP) the decline, would it impact the conclusion?

Here you haven't understood the conclusion. Say, I give you my opinion "If people keep fighting, the world will end." You need to evaluate my opinion. What will you evaluate? Will you evaluate whether people will keep fighting or will you evaluate what happens when people keep fighting. In my opinion, if people keep fighting, the world will end. You need to find out what happens 'if people keep fighting'. My opinion is based on a condition. If this happens, that will happen. When you evaluate my opinion, you are going to evaluate whether 'that will happen or not if this happens'. You don't have to question whether people will keep fighting or not.
Similarly, the conclusion states 'if honeybee population continues to decline...'
Don't worry about whether actually honeybee population will decline, stay same or increase. Find out what happens if it continues to decline.

Kudos Karishma....That was awesome.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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15 Nov 2012, 03:50
hey where is my kudos

I said exactly what karishma said, but with fewer words

Thanks Karishma
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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15 Nov 2012, 05:03
This was a good question Thanks for the explanation karishma.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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22 Nov 2012, 22:58
leigimon wrote:
For D, even if we account for the pesticide we would probably need to account for the mites as well to be definitive.

But I think it comes down to the condition of the argument, that we should accept the decline as given.

I have to agree with the first statement here. Even if pesticide is reduced, you still need to make an additional assumption that the mites don't kill the honeybees as well. D is not a question that can give a direct resolution to the availability of the fruit.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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25 Nov 2012, 23:22
Dont agree with the OA, OA should be B

B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand? -- We are talking about a trend in United states and this seems to be the least important.

D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations.
The answer to this questions definetely matters.
Yes : Rev the decline - > Pollination inc -> O/p increase
N0 : The same trend - > Reduced pollination -> Reduced O/p

Quote:
Somebody just gave below expln
B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
we will get fruits from other counties, who cares abt the bees!

If we were to ignore this honeybee decline altogether there is no point writing this argument at all. Just import fruits from other countries.

The conclusion cares about honey bees.
Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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26 Nov 2012, 15:48
HiteshPunjabi wrote:
Dont agree with the OA, OA should be B

B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand? -- We are talking about a trend in United states and this seems to be the least important.

D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations.
The answer to this questions definetely matters.
Yes : Rev the decline - > Pollination inc -> O/p increase
N0 : The same trend - > Reduced pollination -> Reduced O/p

Quote:
Somebody just gave below expln
B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
we will get fruits from other counties, who cares abt the bees!

If we were to ignore this honeybee decline altogether there is no point writing this argument at all. Just import fruits from other countries.

The conclusion cares about honey bees.
Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.

If you notice a pattern with the other answer choices (A, C, E), along with B, they all provide an alternative solution that directly addresses that most fruits won't be available to consumers. If you answer Yes to these 4 options, you can solve the problem and more fruits will be available to consumers. However, even if you answer Yes to B, you still have another question (what about the 2 new types of mites).

Also, even if you reduce the use of pesticide, you cannot assume that the population will drastically increase right away, or double to the totals prior to the 50 years. You're still stuck with a limited fruit supply.
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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28 Nov 2012, 22:56
I initially went with A. Seeing Karisma's explanation it is clear. Kudos!
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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink]

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06 Dec 2012, 19:09
Expert's post
1
This post was
BOOKMARKED
HiteshPunjabi wrote:
Dont agree with the OA, OA should be B

B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand? -- We are talking about a trend in United states and this seems to be the least important.

D Will reducing the use of pesticides in the United States reverse the decline in honeybee populations.
The answer to this questions definetely matters.
Yes : Rev the decline - > Pollination inc -> O/p increase
N0 : The same trend - > Reduced pollination -> Reduced O/p

Quote:
Somebody just gave below expln
B Are honeybee populations declining in other important fruit-producing regions, like Chile and New Zealand?
we will get fruits from other counties, who cares abt the bees!

If we were to ignore this honeybee decline altogether there is no point writing this argument at all. Just import fruits from other countries.

The conclusion cares about honey bees.
Therefore, if the honey bee population continues this drastic decline, then most fruits will no longer be available to consumers.

Check out the explanation given in this post: http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2012/11 ... onclusion/
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Get started with Veritas Prep GMAT On Demand for $199 Veritas Prep Reviews Manager Joined: 07 May 2012 Posts: 76 Location: United States Followers: 3 Kudos [?]: 142 [0], given: 23 Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink] ### Show Tags 07 Nov 2013, 06:16 Hi Karishma, I agree with what you have said above. But the reason I felt A was just as strong as D ,was , since the argument already states that honeybees are the PRIMARY POLLINATORS for these fruits. So we already know that there are other pollinators that could pollinate these fruits. So when you think on these lines, A doesn't really help much , since we already know the answer to this from the argument itself. Although I do agree that D doesn't help in evaluating the argument either . So I cant figure out a way to justifiably pick one over the other. -Jyothi _________________ Jyothi hosamani Veritas Prep GMAT Instructor Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 7177 Location: Pune, India Followers: 2161 Kudos [?]: 13987 [0], given: 222 Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the [#permalink] ### Show Tags 07 Nov 2013, 21:38 gmacforjyoab wrote: Hi Karishma, I agree with what you have said above. But the reason I felt A was just as strong as D ,was , since the argument already states that honeybees are the PRIMARY POLLINATORS for these fruits. So we already know that there are other pollinators that could pollinate these fruits. So when you think on these lines, A doesn't really help much , since we already know the answer to this from the argument itself. Although I do agree that D doesn't help in evaluating the argument either . So I cant figure out a way to justifiably pick one over the other. -Jyothi The argument only says that the honeybees are primary pollinators for these fruits. It doesn't mean there are other insect pollinators that could be used to pollinate. If honeybees are not there, the primary pollinator will be gone and little pollination may take place through other mediums such as wind/some other insects - we don't know. What (A) is trying to evaluate is whether there are other insect pollinators which could pollinate these crops (the use of 'could' tells you that they probably don't pollinate these crops right now). We are looking for an alternative primary pollinator. _________________ Karishma Veritas Prep | GMAT Instructor My Blog Get started with Veritas Prep GMAT On Demand for$199

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Re: In the past 50 years, the population of honeybees in the   [#permalink] 07 Nov 2013, 21:38

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