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In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter

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In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2016, 20:33
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LODD2 wrote:
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was 10 years ago.

Which of the following, if true in Verland, most seriously undermines the force of the evidence cited?

(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
Just bc a few kids still use wooden sleds does not weaken the argument, we want to attack the idea that plastic sleds are more dangerous
(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
This could work, Keep for now. But, the thing is, wouldn't wooden sled kids and plastic sled kids generally both not use protective gear? Probably not right.
(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
Ok, so this could work in that maybe wooden sleds are only good for perfect snow, while plastic ones can be used in all types (good and bad) which may lead to higher injury rates, but not due to the plastic sleds but rather due to using sleds in unsafe conditions
(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
This doesn't really mean anything and nothing can be differentiated between wooden and plastic sleds.
(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.
Ok, so this does undermine the argument in that wooden sleds can hurt multiple people, but we want to attack why plastic sleds are more dangerous. In this case, C works better


I chose (C) as well, somewhat with similar line of thought like yours.
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Last edited by Linhbiz on 01 Jun 2016, 05:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 28 Apr 2016, 05:24
A little complaint here, I think that using sentences such as "The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact" is unfair to non-native speakers. One needs a pretty high level of English proficiency to understand this expression. Not cool, GMAC..

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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2016, 05:44
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

chix475ntu did a great job trying to explain this one, but there still seems to be some confusion, so I thought I'd weigh in. The one thing I try to avoid when reviewing is writing off too many answer choices as "no effect" or "out of scope". This tends to ignore the subtlety of certain answer choices, and leads one to an attitude of ALL or NOTHING in terms of answer choices. Dangerous.

Conclusion: Plastic sleds are more dangerous than wooden sleds.

Premises: In past 10 years, plastic sleds have become more popular than wooden. More children injured on sleds now than 10 years ago.

Already, you should be able to see the assumption. We jumped to danger, without considering any other factors

Assumption: Some other factor is responsible for the jump in injuries (more people using sled, for example).


(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
PROBLEM: This doesn't weaken the argument. In fact, this is the argument. The whole idea is that lots of people are using plastic sleds, which are dangerous. A few children doesn't change that.

(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
PROBLEM: This doesn't compare wooden sleds to plastic sleds, so doesn't explain why one might be more dangerous.

(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
ANSWER: Now the plastic sled can get used a lot more often. This would explain why there are so many more injuries, because there's a lot more sledding going on. The argument that plastic sleds are more dangerous is now unlikely.

(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
PROBLEM: Like B, this doesn't differentiate between wooden and plastic sleds.

(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.
PROBLEM: We want to weaken the argument that plastic sleds are dangerous. Making wooden sleds hurt more people doesn't actually affect that. If anything, this strengthens the argument. If multiple people could get wounded on one wooden sled, then why would the #s be EVEN HIGHER for injuries on a plastic sled?

Hope that helps!


Regarding C
You are saying that since plastic sleds can be used in more number of ways => more injuries.
How is this weakening the argument rather than strengthening ?

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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jun 2016, 05:04
sa18 wrote:
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

chix475ntu did a great job trying to explain this one, but there still seems to be some confusion, so I thought I'd weigh in. The one thing I try to avoid when reviewing is writing off too many answer choices as "no effect" or "out of scope". This tends to ignore the subtlety of certain answer choices, and leads one to an attitude of ALL or NOTHING in terms of answer choices. Dangerous.

Conclusion: Plastic sleds are more dangerous than wooden sleds.

Premises: In past 10 years, plastic sleds have become more popular than wooden. More children injured on sleds now than 10 years ago.

Already, you should be able to see the assumption. We jumped to danger, without considering any other factors

Assumption: Some other factor is responsible for the jump in injuries (more people using sled, for example).


(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
PROBLEM: This doesn't weaken the argument. In fact, this is the argument. The whole idea is that lots of people are using plastic sleds, which are dangerous. A few children doesn't change that.

(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
PROBLEM: This doesn't compare wooden sleds to plastic sleds, so doesn't explain why one might be more dangerous.

(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
ANSWER: Now the plastic sled can get used a lot more often. This would explain why there are so many more injuries, because there's a lot more sledding going on. The argument that plastic sleds are more dangerous is now unlikely.

(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
PROBLEM: Like B, this doesn't differentiate between wooden and plastic sleds.

(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.
PROBLEM: We want to weaken the argument that plastic sleds are dangerous. Making wooden sleds hurt more people doesn't actually affect that. If anything, this strengthens the argument. If multiple people could get wounded on one wooden sled, then why would the #s be EVEN HIGHER for injuries on a plastic sled?

Hope that helps!


Regarding C
You are saying that since plastic sleds can be used in more number of ways => more injuries.
How is this weakening the argument rather than strengthening ?



Lemme givve my 2 rupees(LOL)

Anyways :- the Stimulus says that 10 years ago Plastic Sledges became popular.

And that since the NUMBER of injuries have increased the Plastic Sledge is dangerous.

What is assumed is either the number of Sledges are Same as with Wooden Sledges

and the usage is same then only we can compare the injuries.

What if the usage has increased so much that the %age per sledge has gone down.

Lets say

in 2000 - 100 Wooden sledges were in use and 100 injuries were reported hence Per Sledge Injury is 1

Lets say in 2015 2000 Plastic Sledges were used :- and 200 Injuries were reported Per Sledge Injury is now .1

By this number the Injury Rate is lower for the Plastic Sledge,but the sheer increase in use has made the increase in Injuries.

The Point C makes is it not just used for leisure, but for towing wood, it is used to manually push many cartons... The usage has increased so much that many new injury factors have included.... Hence the sledge might not be as unsafe for the children as the wooden one.

PS. And Also the Bottom Line :- When a Safety, Profit Rise,Trend or any kind of Resultant Characteristic is compared its almost always is about proportion, so attack the proportion.

I hope it helps...

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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 15 Feb 2017, 21:43
kimmyg wrote:
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was 10 years ago.

Which of the following, if true in Verland, most seriously undermines the force of the evidence cited?

(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.

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I choose the wrong option B but, could someone please help correct my point of view

(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can. - Plastic boards became popular 10 years ago. So they probably might have used it for variety of snow conditions back then as well. But last winter they have witnessed more injuries when compared with injuries that occurred 10 years ago, here they are comparing the injuries caused due to use of plastic boards (current and 10 years ago when plastic boards are being used). which implies that something else is a factor of increased injuries.

(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding. - as we are comparing injuries sustained last winter by using plastic boards to those injuries that were sustained for using plastic boards 10 years ago, an additional/external factor would be as given in this option isnt it.

Thanks in advance for your help

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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 16 Feb 2017, 23:59
getisb wrote:
I choose the wrong option B but, could someone please help correct my point of view

(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can. - Plastic boards became popular 10 years ago. So they probably might have used it for variety of snow conditions back then as well. But last winter they have witnessed more injuries when compared with injuries that occurred 10 years ago, here they are comparing the injuries caused due to use of plastic boards (current and 10 years ago when plastic boards are being used). which implies that something else is a factor of increased injuries.

(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding. - as we are comparing injuries sustained last winter by using plastic boards to those injuries that were sustained for using plastic boards 10 years ago, an additional/external factor would be as given in this option isnt it.

Thanks in advance for your help
The mistake in your analysis of option C is that you're making a "plastic to plastic" comparison. Instead, look at the number of accidents 10 years ago as "wooden sleds" and the number of accidents last winter as "plastic sleds". So what we want to say is that plastic sleds can be used more often (and probably on worse types of snow) than wooden sleds can. Hence the number of accidents has gone up (the plastic sleds might actually be safer, and increased usage can account for the increase in the number of children injured).

If children generally don't wear protective gear, and the number of injured children has gone up, then it is more likely that the (plastic) sled is to blame.
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In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jul 2017, 15:15
Generalize:
10 yrs ago-wooden sleds
Now-plastic- diff to steer but fast

Conclusion:
Plastic seld more dangerous since more injuries

We need to weaken the conclusion.

(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.- Ok. So what? Does this tell us the injury rate is higher or lower than plastic? We have no data about the number sold.

(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.- Very few? How few? and how many children sled anyway? Also, this could mean very few wore protective gear when using wooden sleds 10 years ago. Is this data only for plastic sleds? Too many uncertainties. Incorrect.

(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can. - Yes! This casts doubt on the injury data. If plastic sleds are used on different snow, we can be sure that the usage is higher and hence injury rate can be higher.

(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled. Ok. Great. Doesnt help us.

(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.- If anything this means wooden sleds are more dangerous. Incorrect.
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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 25 Sep 2017, 06:00
Hello Experts,

If plastic sleds were introduced 10 years ago, then why did the number of accidents increase only last winter? Do we need to assume that last winter the weather was harsher than it was in any of the 10 previous ago?

Only then we can say C is the answer. What if the weather was harsher five ago? so we should have seen an increase in the # of injuries five years ago as well.

Please let me know where I am going wrong. Thanks
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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 25 Sep 2017, 07:50
pikolo2510 wrote:
Hello Experts,

If plastic sleds were introduced 10 years ago, then why did the number of accidents increase only last winter? Do we need to assume that last winter the weather was harsher than it was in any of the 10 previous ago?

Only then we can say C is the answer. What if the weather was harsher five ago? so we should have seen an increase in the # of injuries five years ago as well.

Please let me know where I am going wrong. Thanks


Again, the point is to find the best weakener. This does not mean it is flawless. Even going by POE, C is the only logical answer since it weakens the conclusion the most.
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In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 27 Sep 2017, 00:38
kimmyg wrote:
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was 10 years ago.

Which of the following, if true in Verland, most seriously undermines the force of the evidence cited?

(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.

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The answer is C
A is actually a strengthener so out .
B It is a tempting choice as it as tries to shift the focus of the argument but this does not tell us anything about the injuries caused by the plastic sleds which children seem to enjoy much because of the thrill of speed. :-) .
C Now this is our answer as it surely weakens that plastic sleds cause more injuries as plastic sleds have made possible to sled in harsh weather conditions and the injuries may be due to low visibility in such conditions .
D Again this tries to shift the scope of the argument .It can happen for both wooden slide and plastic slide so out
E This may be true of wooden sleds but it does not weaken that plastic sleds are more dangerous and cause more injury .
More people are affected but what about the intensity of the injury which we consider dangerous .

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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2017, 13:57
Honestly, most of the answers seemed irrelevant to me and don't address the evidence that the number of children injured was higher.

C is the only one which offers a different take on the evidence cited: that the number of injured children is higher not because the plastic sleds are more dangerous, but because the plastic sleds can be used in many snow conditions. If plastic sleds can be used in more snow conditions, then children are going to come out to play more often. More sledding, more chances for injury.
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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 04 Oct 2017, 09:20
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was 10 years ago.

Which of the following, if true in Verland, most seriously undermines the force of the evidence cited?

(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
- out of scope. not concerned whether children CAN STILL USE wooden sleds...issue is whether they're more/less dangerous than plastic sleds.

(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
- out of scope. children can use protective gear for wooden or plastic sleds.

(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
- if plastic sheds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can, there's a much higher likelihood that there are accidents with plastic sheds -- strictly probability.

(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
- OPPOSITE. this STRENGTHENS evidence. Why? B/c passage says that plastic sleds are harder to steer and go faster...this increases the odds that plastic sleds can collide with other things.

(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.
- OPPOSITE. this STRENGTHENS evidence. Why? Because if wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, AND more injuries occur since the increase in popularity of plastic sleds, this further solidifies that plastic sleds are more dangerous than wooden sleds.

kudos please if you find this helpful :)

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Re: In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 05 Oct 2017, 06:24
B, C , D & E each of them can have so many interpretations to go for or against the conclusion.Very vague questions.

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In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 15 Nov 2017, 22:49
kimmyg wrote:
In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter snow in Verland used wooden sleds with runners and steering bars. Ten years ago, smooth plastic sleds became popular; they go faster than wooden sleds but are harder to steer and slow. The concern that plastic sleds are more dangerous is clearly borne out by the fact that the number of children injured while sledding was much higher last winter than it was 10 years ago.

Which of the following, if true in Verland, most seriously undermines the force of the evidence cited?

(A) A few children still use traditional wooden sleds.
(B) Very few children wear any kind of protective gear, such as helmets, while sledding.
(C) Plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can.
(D) Most sledding injuries occur when a sled collides with a tree, a rock, or another sled.
(E) Because the traditional wooden sleds can carry more than one rider, an accident involving a wooden sled can result in several children being injured.

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C it is. If plastic sleds can be used in a much wider variety of snow conditions than wooden sleds can, then the growing occurrence of accidents could be attributed to greater usage and not to the plastic sled being more dangerous. This clearly weakens.

E is incorrect even though it directly tries to say that there can be a risk in using wooden sleds, it does not say they can be MORE dangerous or that plastic ones are less dangerous or there are actually accidents involved with wooden sleds also. Moreover, it ignores the force of evidence which is taken care by C.

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In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter [#permalink]

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New post 09 Dec 2017, 22:42
the pattern in C indicates that the sample has problems; hence, the conclusion based on the statistic is incorrect. Otherwise, using POE, ones can eliminate both B and E.
B strengthens the argument while E is out of scope.

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In the past, most children who went sledding in the winter   [#permalink] 09 Dec 2017, 22:42

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