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In the past several years, astronomers have detected more

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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2015, 04:53
Hi,

There is a difference in the meaning between the two sentences cited by you. To understand the same, please have a look at the following sentences:

1. I saw some dogs sitting outside the house.
2. I saw some dogs that sit outside the house.

In the first sentence you are talking about those dogs who were sitting outside the house when you spotted them. However, in the second sentence you are talking about a category of dogs and this category of dogs sits outside the house. So, in the second construction you are describing a general feature of these dogs.

Do you now see how the description of the planets changes with the change in the construction (from –ing modifier to that clause)?


:)

Thanks,

Neeti.[/quote]




Hi Neeti,

I'm an E-Gmat SC individual member somehow i can't access your internal forum so i'm posting my question here that's related to the very same question we discussing.

In this question I understand:
1) There's a combined idiom issue that is “as X as” and “X larger than”.
2) What i do not understand is that we can skip " , most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, " as it is non essential modifier modifying planets , so we end up getting sentence as astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, circling other stars.

Now the problem is here we have Cluase + ING modifier -- that has two usages 1) it give addition info about clause or 2) it describes the result/ effect cause by clause and while doing so modifier has to agree with the subject.


Thus the subject of the clause is astronomers .It doesn't make sense to say astronomer circling stars unless we have a situation as 80 massive planets circling other stars ( in this case circling is modifying directly planets without the comma but that's not the case in given answer choice c) so could you please explain how does C makes sense.
Thank you.
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Sep 2015, 07:06
I have figured out the mystery....

Let me do the X ray of this problem.

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

In the past several years = Adverbial phrase
Astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets = main clause
most of them as large or larger than Jupiter = noun modifier --modifying the noun 80 massive planets.Moreover here's a problem with idiom usage - as x as /x larger than y both are combined thus A ,B & E are OUT. Left with C and D.

Now let see choice C. it corrects the idiom problem by placing right idiom at least as large as Jupiter.

So the entire sentence would look like this:
Astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling other stars.


Thing to keep in mind is - that we need to understand what is at least as large as Jupiter? Off course Astronomers can't be thus the modifier phrase "most of them at least as large as Jupiter" is referring to noun planets.

Since it's an additional info thus we can remove this modifying phrase-

Astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, circling other stars.

We have a sentence structure here as Noun + noun phrase + ING modifier in that case the ING modifying would modify the main noun that is planets.Thus the senescence makes logical sense.

D is Out because of incorrect adverb mostly that changes the original meaning of the sentence .
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In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Oct 2015, 18:52
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In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

A. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling

In option A, "which circle" --> is this modifying "80 massive planets"? If yes, which rule says always modifies the preceding noun. Can someone please provide few practice problems to this unique case?
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Oct 2015, 22:42
rakeshpai1 wrote:
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

A. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling

In option A, "which circle" --> is this modifying "80 massive planets"? If yes, which rule says always modifies the preceding noun. Can someone please provide few practice problems to this unique case?


"There is no unique case for which rule"
Which always modifies preceding noun.
From the sentence we can logically conclude that Jupiter cannot circle other stars, therefore which has been used incorrectly here.
Eliminate A and D

Correct idiomatic usage is
as large as Jupiter, and
larger than Jupiter

Eliminate B and E

Option C clearly states the meaning by using at least

IMO C

EDIT:
OA is C
See this post in-the-past-several-years-astronomers-have-detected-more-63092.html?fl=similar
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2015, 06:36
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rakeshpai1 wrote:
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

A. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling

In option A, "which circle" --> is this modifying "80 massive planets"? If yes, which rule says always modifies the preceding noun. Can someone please provide few practice problems to this unique case?



IMO C

In D the usage of Mostly is incorrect according to me. Also, 'Which' modifies Jupiter. Plus I think Circling is necessary because the action is still going on.

It is easy to chuck other options. Experts, your comments?

Thanks,
Rohan
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2015, 07:58
rohan89 wrote:
rakeshpai1 wrote:
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

A. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling

In option A, "which circle" --> is this modifying "80 massive planets"? If yes, which rule says always modifies the preceding noun. Can someone please provide few practice problems to this unique case?



IMO C

In D the usage of Mostly is incorrect according to me. Also, 'Which' modifies Jupiter. Plus I think Circling is necessary because the action is still going on.

It is easy to chuck other options. Experts, your comments?

Thanks,
Rohan


rohan89 circling is necessary, not because of tense error but because it modifies 80 massive planets correctly.
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Oct 2015, 10:41
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The correct route to solve this issue is through the idiom first. Anytime we use as large, it should be completed by another as – as large as.
We can thus eliminate A, B and E; between C and D, we can eliminate D for fouling ‘which’ pronoun touch rule. When there is an eligible noun such as ‘Jupiter’, ‘which’ cannot jump over it and modify the planets
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2015, 05:12
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

Can someone please clarify the following doubts -
'which' modifies "80 massive planets" or "Jupiter"?
generally 'which' modifies the immediate preceding noun before the comma. Here we have an additional modifier "most of them as large or larger than Jupiter" which can be skipped , so 'which' modifies "80 massive planets"?
If this is correct then apart from idiom error in (A) there seems no other error.
For (D) -->is the issue with "mostly" since it changes slightly the intended meaning ?
(C) --> "circling" modifies the entire clause "most of them at least as large as Jupiter"?
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2015, 05:58
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Avisek47 wrote:
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

Can someone please clarify the following doubts -
'which' modifies "80 massive planets" or "Jupiter"?
generally 'which' modifies the immediate preceding noun before the comma. Here we have an additional modifier "most of them as large or larger than Jupiter" which can be skipped , so 'which' modifies "80 massive planets"?
If this is correct then apart from idiom error in (A) there seems no other error.
For (D) -->is the issue with "mostly" since it changes slightly the intended meaning ?
(C) --> "circling" modifies the entire clause "most of them at least as large as Jupiter"?



Hi Avisek,

Let's understand the intended meaning of this sentence

In the past several years ( is a prepositional phrase that gives more info about time frame)

astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets (this is an independent clause that has a subject astros and verb detected)

,most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, ( this phrase is giving information about planets that is additional and if ignored than you would see - astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, which circle other stars.
so now you know that which is a relative pronoun that refers to planets)

An other problem with the sentence is "as large or larger than" that is unidiomatic. The correct usage will be at least as large as .

Thus we can eliminate all answer choices except E and D.

The only difference in E and D is of adjective most. the usage of mostly is incorrect because mostly is an adverb that can't modify the noun planets.

in the end, as i said before " most of them....larger than Jupiter" is an additional phrase which can be omitted then you would see- astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets,circling other stars. in this sentence circling is modifying the planets.

Hope it helps.
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Oct 2015, 08:28
Thanks jaspreet.... indeed a very good explaination.
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Nov 2015, 13:56
Please correct the answer. It shows 'D'.
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Nov 2015, 08:13
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Guys would be nice if you ppl can put some light on my thought process.

I would go with D.
The reason are
1) If you omit the sandwich phrase i.e phrase modifier, option c would sound grammatically incorrect.

..... astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, circling other stars.

In case of D, if we eliminate the phrase modifier, then

......... astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, which circle other stars.

Even if you eliminate phrase modifier (sandwich phrase) the sentence should make sense. In C it dos't and in D it dose.

2) Comma ing rule - I dont know how many of you recognize this rule by this term.

When ever we have a ing form (verb form) of word next to comma, that word should be a effect of a cause described before the comma.

Subject + Verb, ing

Cause , Effect
Example :- The car stopped, delaying Mike.

Cause Effect
Example :- The Bomb Blasted, Killing the man.


Here in option C the first part of the sentence does not signify any cause for the circling to be an effect.

Hope it's clear now.

The answer is D.
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 15 Dec 2016, 10:45
Hello Guys

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling other stars.

Here Circling modifies 80 planets ??????

I am not sure about "most of them at least as large as Jupiter" . Isn't it a fragment.
Correct version should be "most of them are at least as large as Jupiter"
Can someone please clarify this doubt?
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In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2017, 15:36
I edited the OA
I looked in other places to find an answer to this question...

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... t4433.html

RonPurewal
ManhattanGMAT Staff

"you can eliminate (a) and (b) on the grounds of STRICT parallelism.

specifically:
when you have an "or" construction (or, for that matter, an "and" construction), each part of the construction must work in isolation from the other one.

this eliminates (a) and (b), both for the same reason: "as large" requires "as". you can't be "as large than" something -- but that's the only preposition available.
the correct parallel construction would be ...as large as or larger than, a construction that allows both parts to have their own proper prepositions.

choice (c), the correct answer, circumvents the issue entirely by replacing the parallel construction with '...at least as large'. not only does this construction obviate the need to consider parallelism in the first place, but it's also more concise than the alternative."

I tend to believe experts from MGMAT :)
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Jan 2017, 07:59
Meaning wise Jupiter cannot circle other stars. It has to be 80 massive planets.

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, circling other stars.

On striking out only C and E remain. E sounds awkward.

Answer : C
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jan 2017, 00:27
A. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling


C has as large as in correct form and correct answer
in D "at least" is not required
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 mass  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Jan 2017, 01:10
In my 2 cents,

A. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle -- as large or larger than is wrong

B. most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling -- same as A

C. most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling -- looks good;If we remove the ",most of them...as Jupiter,",circling modifiers 80 massive planets.

D. mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
-- "which" incorrectly modifies Jupiter.In my 2 cents,even one may argue that "which" modifies 80 massive planets,it is still incorrect as we will have 2
modifier without any proper connector,i.e. "and".Even if we add "and" there is still a parallelism error as noun modifier is not parallel with relative pronoun(which)


E. mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling -- same as A

If any of my reasoning is incorrect,please feel free to advise
Thanks :-)
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Jul 2017, 12:31
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Jul 2017, 23:46
namurad wrote:
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

(A) most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
(B) most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
(C) most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
(D) mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
(E) mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling


My question is - why is c correct and D wrong?
The problem i see in c is that the antecedent of "them" is ambiguous. "them" in c can refer to planets or astronomers (isn't it so?)

In D - mostly is an adverb which modifies the adjective (large).


A the meaning is not correct in this sentence the new planets that are found circle other stars not Jupiter.
B incorrect use of and circling
C correct comparison is correct and verbing modifier correctly modifies the previous clause .
D again use of " which changes meaning " and we need most of them .
Mostly is an adverb so it should modify verb adjective but that is not the case here .
E We need most of them .
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Re: In the past several years, astronomers have detected more  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Dec 2017, 22:50
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle other stars.

(A) most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle -- which incorrectly refers to Jupiter ; idiom issue -- as x as
(B) most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling - idiom issue -- as x as
(C) most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling - Correct
(D) mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle -- which incorrectly refers to Jupiter
(E) mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling --idiom issue -- as x as

Answer C
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