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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:
adkikani wrote:
Hi Gmatninja / Gmatninja2,
Would you help applying correct reading strategy to this example?
I took 9 mins and unfortunately got all ans incorrect since could not
understand the passage itself.

As recommended in the Ultimate RC Guide for Beginners (click here for a full list of Experts’ Topics of the Week), stop at the end of each paragraph, and ask yourself WHY the author has written the paragraph.

The first paragraph is a bit daunting (the 3rd sentence is 8 lines long!). Rather than getting stuck in the details, think about why that paragraph is there. Is it simply to tell us about the Supreme Court decision in Winters v. United States (1908)? No, the larger purpose of the paragraph is to tell us that, CITING Winters v US, later decisions established that courts can find federal rights to reserve water for particular purposes if certain criteria are met. In other words, the author wants us to realize that the Winters v US case was an important precedent for later cases involving federal rights to reserve water for particular purposes.

As for the second paragraph, is the main purpose to educate readers on the reserved water rights of Pueblo Indians? Or to tell us about the Arizona v. California (1963) decision? No, these examples serve a larger purpose, which is to show that the Winters doctrine has been used to establish water rights even when the waters were not part of a legally defined reservation. In other words, as long as an area was TREATED like a reservation in practice, the courts can consider that area a reservation and thus apply the Winters doctrine to reserve water for particular purposes.

The main purpose of the passage is not to tell us about specific court decisions. Rather, taken together, the two paragraphs are meant to tell us about the legal water rights of American Indian tribes.

See if that analysis helps you tackle the questions!


It is an Old post and may be it doesn't matter any more but I will go ahead and mention it anyway. I read the passage and attempted Question 1 and got it wrong. Around 3 minutes. Scrolled down (I know I should not have done this) and found this post to be the first. read it tried to understand it. Went back to the passage and got all next 7 questions right. It is unbelievable. What I am trying to say here may be I am just reading and not comprehending and the section is RC not just R. If I can develop the habit just like what GMATNinja just did here, I will nail it.

Thank you!
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
I finished the OG and this is one of the hardest text I have ever read. I don't understand how are these questions considered medium
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
GMATNinja Could you please explain why question 8 's correct answer is E ? (I chose C which is wrong)
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
13 mins in total, 6/8 correct, a tough one indeed
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
Dear VeritasKarishma AjiteshArun VeritasPrepHailey GMATNinja MartyTargetTestPrep DmitryFarber

Why is Q4 choice E. wrong?
Quote:
4. The primary purpose of the passage is to

(E) point out a legal distinction between different types of American Indian reservations

The passage mentions that the treaty established Fort Belknap Indian Reservation.
However, for the Rio Grande peublo, no treaty, statute, or executive order has ever designated or withdrawn the pueblos from public lands as American Indian reservations. But what constitutes an American Indian reservation is a question of practice, not of legal definition, and the pueblos have always been treated as reservations by the United States. So, pueblos must be considered to have become reservations.

One reservation was established by treaty; the other did not. Here this is legal distinction.
Why is this thinking wrong?
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:
pikolo2510 wrote:
Thanks GMATNinja

I got the below question wrong. Can you help to explain this question?

Q9: The passage suggests that, if the criteria discussed in lines 16 – 32 were the only criteria for establishing a reservation’s water rights, which of the following would be true?
A. The water rights of the inhabitants of the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation would not take precedence over those of other citizens.
B. Reservations established before 1848 would be judged to have no water rights.
C. There would be no legal basis for the water rights of the Rio Grande pueblos.
D. Reservations other than American Indian reservations could not be created with reserved water rights.
E. Treaties establishing reservations would have to mention water rights explicitly in order to reserve water for a particular purpose.

This is actually question #2 in this thread, referring to the following criteria:

Quote:
Later decisions, citing Winters, established that courts can find federal rights to reserve water for particular purposes if (1) the land in question lies within an enclave under exclusive federal jurisdiction, (2) the land has been formally withdrawn from federal public lands—i.e., withdrawn from the stock of federal lands available for private use under federal land use laws—and set aside or reserved, and (3) the circumstances reveal the government intended to reserve water as well as land when establishing the reservation.

The Rio Grande pueblos were never formally withdrawn from federal public lands ("the pueblo lands never formally constituted a part of federal public lands"), so the second criteria would not apply. Also, the pueblos were never established as a reservation, so the third criteria would not apply. Thus, according to those criteria alone, the courts would NOT be able to find federal rights to reserve the waters of the Rio Grande pueblos (since not all three criteria are satisfied).

Establishing water rights for the pueblos required something beyond those three criteria: "What constitutes an American Indian reservation is a question of practice, not of legal definition, and the pueblos have always been treated as reservations by the United States." A legal basis for the water rights of the pueblos only exists if this "pragmatic approach" is upheld by the courts. If we only use the three criteria referred to in this question, there is no legal basis.

Thus, choice (C) is the best answer.



This question threw me off - I was certain it couldn't be C because the criteria were relevant to Winters, and Winters never dealt with the Rio Grande pueblos... Can you provide further explanation as to why we can apply the criteria to the Rio Grande pueblos?
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
I feel like in general this passage was a tough one to read/follow. I found it unclear whether the passage was using "reserved waters" to specifically mean water that is reserved for Indian Reservations, or water "reserved" for federal use. To me it doesn't make sense that they would use the word "reserved" for anything other than reservations. The whole point of a reservation is that the land (and subsequently the water) is "reserved". To say that the federal courts want to reserve water makes it sound like they're trying to...well, RESERVE water as in for a reservation. Not for federal purposes.
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
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sydlyisaacs wrote:
This question threw me off - I was certain it couldn't be C because the criteria were relevant to Winters, and Winters never dealt with the Rio Grande pueblos... Can you provide further explanation as to why we can apply the criteria to the Rio Grande pueblos?

Hi sydlyisaacs,

I think that is the point GMATNinja made in that post. If A, B, and C were the only criteria for establishing a reservation’s water rights, then there would be no legal basis for the water rights of the Rio Grande pueblos, because, as you also pointed out, those (three) criteria did not apply to the Rio Grande pueblos.
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
It's one of the toughest passages I have ever read. How is it really considered a medium passage?

So much content, so much verbal, it's crazy.
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
Can someone explain question number #8?

I chose (C) and got it wrong.

The passage talks about the criteria in line 14-20, why not C?
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
leelee01011 wrote:
Can someone explain question number #8?

I chose (C) and got it wrong.

The passage talks about the criteria in line 14-20, why not C?


I think you can consider those criteria to be the explicit conditions. The passage also talks about how traditional usage can/should be considered while applying the winters doctrine. Option E covers the tone of the passage in a better manner.
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
Expert Reply
leelee01011 wrote:
Can someone explain question number #8?

I chose (C) and got it wrong.

The passage talks about the criteria in line 14-20, why not C?

Please take a look at this post and let us know if you still have questions!
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
This one was so hard I was almost laughing while doing it! >_<
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
Took me 30 minutes. Not acceptable on the GMAT. This is one of those questions you have to guess...not only is it difficult to digest, but the major issue on the GMAT is time. There's so much going on here...
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In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
By far one of the toughest RCs (as a whole, including the passage and the questions) I've ever solved.

15 minutes 38 seconds, all correct.

Dear Sajjad1994, what are the levels of questions?
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
Expert Reply
Maldonado wrote:
By far one of the toughest RCs (as a whole, including the passage and the questions) I've ever solved.

15 minutes 38 seconds, all correct.

Dear Sajjad1994, what are the levels of questions?


Hi Maldonado

This is not an official difficulty levels rather just a rough idea based on the timer states.

Question #1: 700
Question #2: 700
Question #3: 600-650
Question #4: 650
Question #5: 650
Question #6: 600
Question #7: 650-700
Question #8: 650-700

Thank you
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
Sajjad1994 wrote:
Maldonado wrote:
By far one of the toughest RCs (as a whole, including the passage and the questions) I've ever solved.

15 minutes 38 seconds, all correct.

Dear Sajjad1994, what are the levels of questions?


Hi Maldonado

This is not an official difficulty levels rather just a rough idea based on the timer states.

Question #1: 700
Question #2: 700
Question #3: 600-650
Question #4: 650
Question #5: 650
Question #6: 600
Question #7: 650-700
Question #8: 650-700

Thank you


Thank you very much!
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Re: In Winters v. United States (1908), the Supreme Court held that the ri [#permalink]
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