Indian GMAT takers specially non-engineers.. wake up call..

Few suggestion for you guys. Had applied to a few schools year and believe have a strong profile but was either waitlisted or dinged at 4 places (Top 30 schools).

# Apply in Round 1. Round 2 for Indian applicants is like Round 3 for Domestic applicants. The effect is even more pronounced for Top 20-30 schools.
Every school has a certain % of seats which they would fill with Indian applicants with Indian work experience. I guess it would vary from (5 - 15) % depending on the school.
Most of the seats are filled in Round 1. The concept that Round 1 and Round 2 have equal chances is applicable only for Americans/Europeans or people from countries who are NOT represented well. Not for Indians with indian work ex .

# Get your recommendations proofread and ask your recommender to give you Top 10% in overall ratings (not in every category but in most). Unfortunately people in India are not very enthusiastic about giving recommendation and even if they do give they fall behind their US counterparts in the quality. I mean was reading one recommendation for an accepted Candidate at Columbia and I was like WTF who would write me a 2000 word recommendation full of adjectives and examples. It would take days to write such a letter and even then that person should already have an MBA from a Top School to be able to write such a recommendation. The MBA system rewards people who blow their own trumpet or get it blown by someone else . It's like someone who rates you as top 10%, adcom downgrades that to top 20% and so on.

# GMAT Score is more relevant than it is made out to be, especially for schools outside the Top 7. Most Indians have very similar profiles/work -ex/ECs and the only point of difference is GMAT/essays/interview. Anyone can get the help on Consultant and get top notch essays. Anyone can fake their way through an i/v. GMAT scores are impossible to fake. 730 and above is the sweet spot for getting i/vs and scholarships.

# Extra- Curriculars Matter: Faking ECs is very prevalent among Indian applicants as we do not have a culture that actively encourages volunteering/social contribution. Not an excuse but a mindset. It's like save yourself first. Having said that have your stories in place and the best way to do so is to actually do some EC.

# Prepare well for interviews: There is a misconception that if you are interviewed then you have 80% chances to get admitted. Anywhere from 20-50 hours are needed to prepare for interviews. You don't want to blow your i/v by one bad performance. Do not work on days when your i/v is scheduled. Skype i/v are usually held after 8PM IST and if you work you would be very tired and likely bomb it. Take help of consultants for interview preparation.
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I am Asian American and am not part of the "Indian non-engineer" category. May I still participate in this uprising?

This is excellent advice. The only thing I don't fully agree with is the GMAT score point. If you do fall under the IT Indian category maybe then it becomes a lot more important than it is but that hasn't been in my experience. When I applied for grad school (MSF) I scored a 640 on my first try and because I was applying late, actually I applied Round 4, I did not have time to take it again. I got in at 2 out 4 places I applied with a score of 640. The school I ended up at had an avg. GMAT for the program of 710. For B-school admissions I think most international students put too much faith on the GMAT score and neglect or don't put too much emphasis on ECs, essays. Essays are where you differentiate yourself from the pack. Everyone is different in some way or other. I would put more work on that than trying to take the GMAT the 4th time to score a 770. Once you hit the 700 mark I wouldn't retake it even if you are aiming for HBS. I seriously doubt there is a difference between a 700 and 730 candidate. There are more differences in what kind of work you did, where you did it, what kind of institutions you attended and what grades you received.

Full Disclosure: I did end up retaking the GMAT before grad school and got a 710. I don't plan to retake it again.

Hello to all,
this particular thread isnt initiated to contradict engineers in India. this is indeed a wake-up call for all indians who are from non-math backgrounds.. with some avg gpa and having excellent work exp ,etc and aspire for top 10 mba from usa. so from bottom - top approach.. we are focusing on gmat as of now.
gmat -
quant!
i am requesting experts to motivate people from india who do aspire but couldnt proceed just coz they are not iit's.let me tell all.. unless rejected.. we are accepted..

gmat quant-
1) magoosh prep course is available at lucrative $99 and still $25 is an amazon gift coupon. so this much stake is justifed or not? as it will teach some tricks and good amount of questions also accessible.
2) mgmat guides - considered bible for all?
3) kaplan gmat math workbook / kaplan gmat math foundation
4) total gmat math
are these sufficient enough to take maths from scratch to some modest level say 40 in quant and then where we can aspire for 50 in quant?

Dear Jtyee,
you are most welcome. anyone from round the universe can give his million dollars rather two cents.. hehe.. anything that can assist small percentage of non-math aspirants to their awakening will be a blessing..
let me tell all.. unless rejected.. we are accepted..

I am a non engg Indian male aiming for top b schools

Though I am an engineer,but with an average gpa and graduated from a mediocre college.Also,I'm aiming for a top 30 US b school program.Hope i can be of some use in this forum,as well as get valuable insights from you all :D

Hi All,

I too would like to join. I'm from M.Sc Computer Science background.

I'm having around 10 years of IT exp and am a father of one cute baby. I would like to join a good US school for MBA. Need your help and support all the way.

Regards,
Ravi

Dear Samuraijack,
You are welcome for this new thread.
so when are you taking up your gmat
what all materials you will go through in an order wise for quants and also for verbal.
let experts review that and guide us..
hope it could work good.

dear Debwenger,
you are more than welcome and do share your expertise.
i do apologize if someone took it as its not for engineers. its main motive is for engineers and quant experts to help aspirants like us who are not from quant background like how to study, what to study, how to identify patters,how to review our work,etc so that we can follow and walk on the path of your suggestions and can stand next to you in a b-schools.
thanks

hi rkgarimella,
we are here to be support of each other in order to reach our target schools. so lets start with focusing on quant. like again... what material you sorted, when you planningfor your gmat, etc etc. thanks

hi jtyee,
being a quant guy you are much more liable than others to walk through gmat maths for us. kindly guide us plz

is anyone is having experience with total gmat maths book?
kindly share your experience please

I'm taking the GMAT this thursday, so depending on how I do, I may or may not be the best guy to give advice. Besides, I grew up in America and we learn math using vastly different methods than those used in India, Europe, China etc. The majority of Bunnuel's posts look like chicken scratch to me, because he's just much more advanced/superior in his command of math fundamentals than me. I told myself early on in my studying that I'll never be able to arrive at solutions the way he and other Indians/Europeans/Asians do. I've largely had to find my own way in answering some of the toughest quant problems.

The two methods which are worth mastering, which have taken me from a Q43/44 to a Q49 so far, are Number Testing and Choosing Smart Numbers. If you're like me and you don't think you'll ever master Number Theory (remainders, integers, prime factors all that other stuff), I suggest you get good at Number Testing. Likewise, if you suck at Algebra/World Translations, I suggest you get good at Choosing Smart Numbers.

I took the GMAT like 3 years back when I was trying to get into grad school. I used GMATprep and Manhattan GMAT books. What schools is everyone aiming for?

It's absolutely fine,man!i exactly understand,where you're coming from.
We can definitely help each other out in the applications process and of course the GMAT,and make this a very constructive forum.

Hello SamuraiJack,

I do fall under the Indian IT male category,the omnipresent profile for all b school aspirants.So,what do you think would be the sweet spot in terms of GMAT score for top 30 US schools especially keeping in mind scholarships.

Scholarships are rarely just determined by GMAT score. It is a culmination of everything you are and your profile. But most importantly scholarships are given when you are too good for the school and the adcoms know that you will get into a better school, so scholarships are a way to incentivize the candidate to go there.

I am not at all familiar with Indian IT male category. So, I am going to refrain from any specific notions. A good GMAT score is anything which is higher than the school's average. But ethnicities like Indian and Chinese candidates most often than not score extremely well in the GMAT. So when an adcom looks at a profile which even though has a higher score than the school's average but lower than all the applicants in the similar category that might be a problem. That being said I cannot say what is gonna be a competitive score. Best judge of that would be to ask candidates whom you know that have similar backgrounds.

But again, GMAT score is only a portion of the whole admissions package. As I mentioned of my low GMAT score in the earlier post during my admission to MSF degree I should also mention that avg GPA for that particular program was 3.5 and I had a 3.3. So as you can see I had lower than avg GMAT and GPA but still I ended up getting admitted. Why? These are gonna be my points:

1) You are more than your GMAT and GPA.
2) Having lower GMAT and GPA than average does not mean you are not gonna get admitted. Remember, it is only an average.
3) MSFs are more forgiving of deficiencies than MBA adcoms would be.
4) I killed my interview. I have solid soft skills. I love talking to people and I had a great conversation with the adcom.
5) I had better than average internships/work experiences.

That being said when you are aiming for scholarships your profile for that specific school has to be flawless. So, aim for the highest you can achieve; still don't take more than twice or thrice. Personally I wouldn't spend too much time on it once you score 700+. Work on other stuff on your profile as how you gonna differentiate yourself from the Indian IT male crowd. But as I said I don't know anything about the Indian IT male. No one in my family works in IT .