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# Investment Mgmt Internships

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Current Student
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 260

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03 Jan 2008, 09:37
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Any other 1st-years looking at investment mgmt internships? I'm talking equity or fixed income research for a mutual fund, hedge fund, or perhaps the asset mgmt arm of a bank or insurance company. Not wealth mgmt. Also, staying away from PE and VC for now.

Let me know and perhaps we can team up and share resources. These guys don't recruit on-campus as much as i-banks and consulting firms do, so we need to do a lot more of the work on our own.

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Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 707

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03 Jan 2008, 11:00
What do people mean when they say wealth management?

Is this the retail side of IM?

I'll be looking for IM internships next year, so I'll follow this thread closely.

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Current Student
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 260

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03 Jan 2008, 15:01
I think of wealth mgmt as something closer to financial planning, not something like research. So you'd be working one-on-one with rich folks, helping them manage their portfolios, account for taxes, handle estate planning, that sort of stuff. So in some cases it would be the retail side of IM, but there are also independent shops.

For investment mgmt, I'm talking about working as a research analyst for a fund, perhaps covering 15-20 companies in a certain industry or being more of a generalist. So you're doing things like looking through SEC filings, building financial models, listening to earnings calls, etc, all in an effort to value the stock.

The thing is, investment mgmt is a very scalable business, so these funds can take on tons more assets without adding new people. They make the same amount of decisions, they just buy bigger positions. For example, I've been talking to a well-respected mutual fund with over \$200bn in assets. They only take 2 interns per year. Makes you want to resort to i-banking

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Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 707

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03 Jan 2008, 21:36
Which mutual fund is this?

What time of the year are they recruiting for internships?

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Manager
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 214

Kudos [?]: 21 [0], given: 0

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06 Jan 2008, 22:31
naturallight wrote:
The thing is, investment mgmt is a very scalable business, so these funds can take on tons more assets without adding new people. They make the same amount of decisions, they just buy bigger positions. For example, I've been talking to a well-respected mutual fund with over \$200bn in assets. They only take 2 interns per year. Makes you want to resort to i-banking

This is what scares me about IM, plus the fact that the recruiting is later in the year compared to everything else. I might be tempted to go IB for my internship and first job out of school, and then make the transition to IM after that. Do you have any tips on how to prepare for IM before heading to bschool?

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Senior Manager
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 254

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07 Jan 2008, 09:05
forcefeed wrote:
This is what scares me about IM, plus the fact that the recruiting is later in the year compared to everything else. I might be tempted to go IB for my internship and first job out of school, and then make the transition to IM after that. Do you have any tips on how to prepare for IM before heading to bschool?

Network.

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Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 707

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07 Jan 2008, 14:34
Here's another biggie...

One of the exit opportunities out of IB is to get into IM. In fact, some of the best IM jobs aren't available to fresh MBAs and are only open to seasoned MBAs/CFAs.

But the only (typical) entrance into IB is either out of undergrad or MBA....So do you get that top tier IB job and then jump ship to IM after 1-2 years or try to gun for IM on the get go.

I'm thinking of IB just because of the simple fact that I won't be able to land an IB job if I don't get it right out of B school. Do IB for 1 year and then jump ship to greener pastures.

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Manager
Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 214

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07 Jan 2008, 22:46
baer wrote:
Network.

I can't recall where I saw this, but I have heard some people state that networking isn't as important for IM. I've bought a couple of books that GSB's IMG recommends, but am always looking for more advice.

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Current Student
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 260

Kudos [?]: 4 [0], given: 0

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08 Jan 2008, 09:41
forcefeed wrote:
Do you have any tips on how to prepare for IM before heading to bschool?

I think I wrote a big post on this last year, but here's the short version:

- read as many books on investing as you can
- build your own stock portfolio
- write up a long and a short stock pitch
- look into the cfa program
- read the wsj each day

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Senior Manager
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 254

Kudos [?]: 14 [1], given: 0

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09 Jan 2008, 10:44
1
KUDOS
forcefeed wrote:
baer wrote:
Network.

I can't recall where I saw this, but I have heard some people state that networking isn't as important for IM. I've bought a couple of books that GSB's IMG recommends, but am always looking for more advice.

My experience would support the contrary. My brother works in IM (fixed income), and it's a very small community of people, who all know each other (at least in NYC). He got his job straight from networking out of undergrad, he's not an MBA or CFA either.
A common perception about IM is that if you lose money, you'll be quickly fired. Though this is true, no one ever mentions that other desks are very quick to hire axed traders. This is because of the networking you will do at work and after work. It not a coincidence that his firm is entirely composed of Columbia MBA's.

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Current Student
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 260

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09 Jan 2008, 11:55
baer wrote:
forcefeed wrote:
baer wrote:
Network.

I can't recall where I saw this, but I have heard some people state that networking isn't as important for IM. I've bought a couple of books that GSB's IMG recommends, but am always looking for more advice.

My experience would support the contrary. My brother works in IM (fixed income), and it's a very small community of people, who all know each other (at least in NYC). He got his job straight from networking out of undergrad, he's not an MBA or CFA either.
A common perception about IM is that if you lose money, you'll be quickly fired. Though this is true, no one ever mentions that other desks are very quick to hire axed traders. This is because of the networking you will do at work and after work. It not a coincidence that his firm is entirely composed of Columbia MBA's.

yeah, I think it just depends how you define 'networking'. it isn't like schmoozing at the events the banks have. it's more like getting in touch with alumni on your own and building a relationship.

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CEO
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 3454

Kudos [?]: 904 [0], given: 781

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09 Jan 2008, 12:37
Here is naturallight's excellent post on asset management: 103-t46310

Some other information can also be found here: 103-t46380

Quote:
No, I don't think you will be at a disadvantage as long as you start this summer and really get into it. The MBA guys I know who are summer interns at places like Franklin Templeton and some smaller hedge funds have said that asset mgmt employers don't really care about grades, but they do like to see a strong personal interest.

So here are some of the things that I've been doing over the past year to convey that I have a strong personal interest in asset mgmt (if you want to do sellside stuff the list would obviously be different):

1) Read the WSJ everyday. I spend about half an hour doing this, which is enough time to fully read some interesting stories and scan the first paragraph of all of the other stories.

2) Read as many investment books as possible. Start off with Lynch's One Up On Wall Street and Greenblatt's Little Book and You can be a Stock Market Genius. These are fun reads with practical tips. If you like it, you can move onto Grahman and some tougher stuff.

3) Build a small stock and bond portfolio. Great way to apply some rudimentary stock research and also learn a little bit about portfolio mgmt. Start off with safer large caps, keeping things as diverse as possible. Try to track the S&P 500, not beat it. Buy and hold--keep the trading to a minimum, otherwise you'll get eaten alive on fees.

4) Write up two stock pitches. Chicago's IMG site has some great tips, examples, and templates for this. (The weather's been too good here, I haven't done this yet. I think it's gonna be really hard, but better to do in now than while school is in session.)

5) Look into the CFA program (but only for buyside stuff)! I would not recommend trying to do this during the 1st year, but I think you could take level 1 in June right after you graduate without too much extra studying. Studying for these tests is very time-consuming--the curriculum is super broad. But the CFA is starting to become pretty standard for any research or port mgmt function in asset mgmt.

6) Maybe try to talk with some NYU eq research guys over the summer?

I'm sure there's some other stuff, but I can't think of it now.

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Senior Manager
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 254

Kudos [?]: 14 [0], given: 0

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09 Jan 2008, 12:48
naturallight wrote:
yeah, I think it just depends how you define 'networking'. it isn't like schmoozing at the events the banks have. it's more like getting in touch with alumni on your own and building a relationship.

Exactly... we we're talking about two separate things... lol.

Kudos [?]: 14 [0], given: 0

CEO
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 2950

Kudos [?]: 654 [0], given: 210

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12 Jan 2008, 17:17
Good to see you're still around baer. Sent you a kudos for this post. Very useful info for an aspiring trader like myself

baer wrote:
forcefeed wrote:
baer wrote:
Network.

I can't recall where I saw this, but I have heard some people state that networking isn't as important for IM. I've bought a couple of books that GSB's IMG recommends, but am always looking for more advice.

My experience would support the contrary. My brother works in IM (fixed income), and it's a very small community of people, who all know each other (at least in NYC). He got his job straight from networking out of undergrad, he's not an MBA or CFA either.
A common perception about IM is that if you lose money, you'll be quickly fired. Though this is true, no one ever mentions that other desks are very quick to hire axed traders. This is because of the networking you will do at work and after work. It not a coincidence that his firm is entirely composed of Columbia MBA's.

Kudos [?]: 654 [0], given: 210

Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 707

Kudos [?]: 14 [0], given: 0

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14 Jan 2008, 08:33
So should I take the CFA Level 1 before I start this Fall?

Have you guys noticed any CFA level 2 candidates getting noticed more for interviews or is the Level 1 pretty much nothing?

I'm weighing the option of chilling and goofing around or being serious and studying for level 1.

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Current Student
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 260

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14 Jan 2008, 09:40
gmatclb wrote:
So should I take the CFA Level 1 before I start this Fall?

Have you guys noticed any CFA level 2 candidates getting noticed more for interviews or is the Level 1 pretty much nothing?

I'm weighing the option of chilling and goofing around or being serious and studying for level 1.

It's a pretty brutal, time-consuming process, so I would think carefully about it. The failure rates for each level are 40-60%. It's primarily designed for a research/PM job function, so if you think you might want to do i-banking or corporate finance, it won't be as helpful. If you did decide to do it, you should start studying right away.

Lots of people sign up for level 1, put it on their resumes, and don't really follow through with it. So being able to put "Level 2 candidate" on your resume would help, but it probably isn't huge.

naturallight, CFA

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Manager
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: Bay Area

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15 Jan 2008, 23:35
naturallight, do you have official CFA designation? Or you've just taken and passed all levels?

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Director
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16 Jan 2008, 09:09
naturallight wrote:

naturallight, CFA

What were you doing before B school?

And what were the job prospects like with just the CFA on your resume?

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Current Student
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16 Jan 2008, 15:05
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Yep, I have the official designation. It was quite a relief to be done. Getting through the program required some genuine sacrifices, most notably in the areas of boozing and playstation.

Before b-school I was working for an investment firm that is fund-of-funds (aka a manager of managers). FoF's are a great business model, but not too exciting to work for. I want to work for a firm that is actually making the investments, like a mutual fund or hedge fund.

I think the CFA definitely helps with the job search, but it's not a magic bullet. Since b-school has so many career changers, having a CFA is a good way to show you're serious about the industry. Also, there are some firms that really like the CFA and require all of their analysts to be working toward it, so obviously it's helpful at these firms.

However, some firms could care less. This is especially the case at smaller firms where the main guys don't have CFA's. Also, if you want to work in a finance area but not inv mgmt, it's not really a boost.

But in terms of getting the coveted on-campus interview invites, I think there's a lot of other factors that make more of a difference, such as past work exp, networking (including attendance at all company presentations and the like), how you show you're really dedicated to the industry, and probably a few other things that I'm forgetting.

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Manager
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16 Jan 2008, 17:39
So, if you are a chartered CFA, that means you had 4 years of relevant work experience ? I hope you don't mind my asking why you are pursuing an MBA if you have the official charter?
I have a friend, a sell side analyst, is a CFA but does not think an MBA is necessary.

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Re: Investment Mgmt Internships   [#permalink] 16 Jan 2008, 17:39

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