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Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the

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New post 28 Oct 2016, 09:58
Teoh wrote:
Hi Experts
I have a question.
The answer for choice B is :
(B) Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

In my Opinion, this answer choice completely contradict the evidence in the argument that:
"Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Earth's atmosphere"

The explanation in the OG Verbal review 2016 says:
"B Ground-based telescopes on mountain summits are still subject to more
atmospheric distortion
than are space telescopes orbiting above the
atmosphere."

From E-gmat, a weaken question must provide new information and answer B provides new information although it contradicts an evidence in the argument. Why the OG explanation above says "are still subject to more atmospheric distortion"? knowing that if you take choice B it contradicts and remove the fact that there is distortion for ground based telescope.

Thank you in advance for answering

Teo


Option B does not contradict the argument. It just states that if the ground based satellites are located on higher grounds (such as top of hills), the distortion will be less than the ones kept at lower grounds (such as sea level).

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New post 15 Jan 2017, 08:12
I am still not convinced on answer option E. The Answer option E would be true if the 'telescopes with more light gathering capacity" are "ground based telescopes". Since the answer E does not explicitly specify the same i chose B over E.

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New post 15 Jan 2017, 21:18
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LarryM wrote:
I am still not convinced on answer option E. The Answer option E would be true if the 'telescopes with more light gathering capacity" are "ground based telescopes". Since the answer E does not explicitly specify the same i chose B over E.


For a weakening / strengthening type question it not required to satisfy the "must be true" condition - a "could be" scenario would suffice. Option E states a negative point about space telescopes. In this case, highlighting a weakness of the space-based telescope is good enough to qualify the option as the weakening statement. Because of option E, it could be possible that the ground based telescopes would not be obsoleted (IF the ground based telescopes have more light gathering capacity). It is alright to add such conditions for a weakening / strengthening question.

For more explanation about choices B and E, please refer to the following post:

is-this-answer-key-from-og-correct-208210.html#p1715182

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New post 09 Apr 2017, 13:09
sayantanc2k wrote:
LarryM wrote:
I am still not convinced on answer option E. The Answer option E would be true if the 'telescopes with more light gathering capacity" are "ground based telescopes". Since the answer E does not explicitly specify the same i chose B over E.


For a weakening / strengthening type question it not required to satisfy the "must be true" condition - a "could be" scenario would suffice. Option E states a negative point about space telescopes. In this case, highlighting a weakness of the space-based telescope is good enough to qualify the option as the weakening statement. Because of option E, it could be possible that the ground based telescopes would not be obsoleted (IF the ground based telescopes have more light gathering capacity). It is alright to add such conditions for a weakening / strengthening question.

For more explanation about choices B and E, please refer to the following post:

http://gmatclub.com/forum/is-this-answe ... l#p1715182


I get the answer is E but how can we say the "more light gathering" telescopes would be the ground based ones so they can be used and would not become obsolete.

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New post 10 Apr 2017, 03:31
ezzo wrote:
I get the answer is E but how can we say the "more light gathering" telescopes would be the ground based ones so they can be used and would not become obsolete.
On one hand we have space telescopes. Other telescopes must therefore not be space-based. Ground telescopes are in the category of things other than space-based telescopes. This is enough for what the question asks. The correct option does not have to cover every possible thing.
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New post 10 Apr 2017, 10:26
AjiteshArun wrote:
ezzo wrote:
I get the answer is E but how can we say the "more light gathering" telescopes would be the ground based ones so they can be used and would not become obsolete.
On one hand we have space telescopes. Other telescopes must therefore not be space-based. Ground telescopes are in the category of things other than space-based telescopes. This is enough for what the question asks. The correct option does not have to cover every possible thing.


I thought more light gathering telescopes are not mentioned anywhere above so out of scope :roll:

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New post 11 Apr 2017, 04:20
ezzo wrote:
I thought more light gathering telescopes are not mentioned anywhere above so out of scope :roll:
Not mentioned and not relevant are two very different things :)
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New post 18 Apr 2017, 08:07
AjiteshArun wrote:
kahipz wrote:
As I practise more on CR, I start to develop an inkling as to why E is chosen instead of B, even though, reasoning-wise, I'm still not settled.
The response just above yours is a very good one.

Everything A is distorted by the atmosphere. Everything B operates outside the atmosphere. Therefore for advanced research, everything A will become obsolete. The second option is just saying that some As are better than other As. But the larger point is that any B is better than an A. The fact that some As are better than other As can't change that.

AjiteshArun amazing explanation and amazing score :)... how is E Correct can you pl highlight too/??

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New post 18 Apr 2017, 08:12
kahipz wrote:
Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Earth's atmosphere. Orbiting space telescopes, however, operating above Earth's atmosphere, should provide superbly detailed images. Therefore, ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

Which of the following statements, if true, would cast the most doubt on the conclusion drawn above?

(A) An orbiting space telescope due to be launched this year is far behind schedule and over budget, whereas the largest ground-based telescope was both within budget and on schedule.

(B) Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

(C) By careful choice of observatory location, it is possible for large-aperture telescopes to avoid most of the kind of wind turbulence that can distort image quality.

(D) When large-aperture telescopes are located at high altitudes near the equator, they permit the best Earth-based observations of the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, a prime target of astronomical research.

(E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Answer Key

Two controversial choices (for me)

(B) Ground-based telescopes on mountain summits are still subject to more atmospheric distortion than are space telescopes orbiting above the atmosphere.

(E) CORRECT. This indicates an inherent limitation of space-based telescopes: unlike Earth-based telescopes, they lack the light-gathering capacity that astronomers need to perform one of their primary tasks, i.e., detailed spectral analyses. So Earth-based telescopes are unlikely to soon become obsolete.


[Reveal] Spoiler:
My Reasoning:

My initial answer was (B), and still is. As for answer choice (E), I'm unconvinced because the answer choice doesn't point out unambiguously that Earth-based telescopes have that light-gathering capacity that space-based telescopes fall short, even though the explanation just inexplicably claims that capacity for Earth-based telescopes. As a non-expert in this field, I suppose the test takers aren't supposed to infer that space-based and Earth-based telescopes are only two categories of telescopes in a dichotomy, or that Earth-based telescopes inherently have a better light-gathering capacity that the space-based ones.

As for answer (B), from the viewpoint of a domain illiterate, the reference of "make stars appear to twinkle" doesn't come over as downright inferior and worth being rendered obsolete; the answer actually came over as "The problem with atmospheric distortion becomes abated, to whatever extent, when ground-based telescopes are located on mountain summits; hence, can still be of some use". My choice of (B) over (E) bases primarily on the fact that (E) doesn't explicitly claim for ground-based telescopes the capacity that would make it more useful than space-based ones in that particular regard, while (B) explicitly points out how the weakness of ground-based telescopes can be offset.

Thank you : )

AjiteshArun
E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.
I really thought thinking of Earth Telescopes as "telescopes with more light-gathering capacity" is too much of a stretch even by COuld Be means... Most CR Questions do not ask me to stretch so far??? Any ideas when can I stretch my imaginations for Could Be Questions and When not...

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New post 18 Apr 2017, 22:14
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deependra1234 wrote:
AjiteshArun amazing explanation and amazing score :)... how is E Correct can you pl highlight too/??
Thank you :)

deependra1234 wrote:
AjiteshArun
E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.
I really thought thinking of Earth Telescopes as "telescopes with more light-gathering capacity" is too much of a stretch even by COuld Be means... Most CR Questions do not ask me to stretch so far??? Any ideas when can I stretch my imaginations for Could Be Questions and When not...
Let's put some of the information given in the stimulus and in option E down:

1. Astronomers rely on DSA. This means that astronomers are already using DSA to determine the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars.
2. Space telescopes cannot provide DSA; DSA can be provided only by telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide. So DSA needs non-space telescopes.

Because astronomers are already using DSA, and space telescopes can't do DSA, astronomers must be using telescopes that are not space telescopes. Such telescopes must be terrestrial (the opposite of space). Hence E is quite solid as an answer choice.

More generally, you'll find that the correct option does very often involve a "stretch". The GMAT doesn't say how much of a stretch is too much, but a little bit is okay. It'd be very hard to make a compact CR question if the question makers could not take certain things for granted. In this case, as soon as we see that E gives us a weakness (of space telescopes), we should be seriously considering it as a "candidate" option.
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New post 24 May 2017, 21:34
Hi AjiteshArun,

Is C wrong because it attacks the premise rather than conclusion ?
C says by a good choice of ground location, large aperture telescopes(LA) can avoid most types of image distorting things.
This attacks the given premise that ground based telescopes' images are distorted. The premise covers all ground based telescopes.
In this option we can assume that LA telescopes are ground based.

Am I thinking right ?

Thanks,

AjiteshArun wrote:
deependra1234 wrote:
AjiteshArun amazing explanation and amazing score :)... how is E Correct can you pl highlight too/??
Thank you :)

deependra1234 wrote:
AjiteshArun
E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.
I really thought thinking of Earth Telescopes as "telescopes with more light-gathering capacity" is too much of a stretch even by COuld Be means... Most CR Questions do not ask me to stretch so far??? Any ideas when can I stretch my imaginations for Could Be Questions and When not...
Let's put some of the information given in the stimulus and in option E down:

1. Astronomers rely on DSA. This means that astronomers are already using DSA to determine the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars.
2. Space telescopes cannot provide DSA; DSA can be provided only by telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide. So DSA needs non-space telescopes.

Because astronomers are already using DSA, and space telescopes can't do DSA, astronomers must be using telescopes that are not space telescopes. Such telescopes must be terrestrial (the opposite of space). Hence E is quite solid as an answer choice.

More generally, you'll find that the correct option does very often involve a "stretch". The GMAT doesn't say how much of a stretch is too much, but a little bit is okay. It'd be very hard to make a compact CR question if the question makers could not take certain things for granted. In this case, as soon as we see that E gives us a weakness (of space telescopes), we should be seriously considering it as a "candidate" option.

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New post 24 May 2017, 22:15
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ajay2121988 wrote:
Hi AjiteshArun,

Is C wrong because it attacks the premise rather than conclusion ?
C says by a good choice of ground location, large aperture telescopes(LA) can avoid most types of image distorting things.
This attacks the given premise that ground based telescopes' images are distorted. The premise covers all ground based telescopes.
In this option we can assume that LA telescopes are ground based.

Am I thinking right ?

Thanks,
Attacking the premise(s) is a perfectly valid strategy when trying to weaken an argument. The problem with option C is that it doesn't go far enough. It currently says this:

Quote:
By careful choice of observatory location, it is possible for large-aperture telescopes to avoid most of the kind of wind turbulence that can distort image quality.
This is a bit like saying by not watching TV, we can avoid the kind of visual stimulus that can lead to a headache. This does not mean that a person can never get a headache if he or she avoids TV. It just means that a person will not get a headache caused by TV visuals. Similarly, even if large-aperture telescopes can avoid distortion from wind turbulence, they could be subject to distortion from other sources.

If option C said that wind turbulence accounts for all (or almost all) the distortion, then we would have reason to believe that at least one type of ground-based telescope (large-aperture) would not become obsolete.
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New post 25 May 2017, 21:52
kahipz wrote:
Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Earth's atmosphere. Orbiting space telescopes, however, operating above Earth's atmosphere, should provide superbly detailed images. Therefore, ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

Which of the following statements, if true, would cast the most doubt on the conclusion drawn above?

(A) An orbiting space telescope due to be launched this year is far behind schedule and over budget, whereas the largest ground-based telescope was both within budget and on schedule.

(B) Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

(C) By careful choice of observatory location, it is possible for large-aperture telescopes to avoid most of the kind of wind turbulence that can distort image quality.

(D) When large-aperture telescopes are located at high altitudes near the equator, they permit the best Earth-based observations of the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, a prime target of astronomical research.

(E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Answer Key

Two controversial choices (for me)

(B) Ground-based telescopes on mountain summits are still subject to more atmospheric distortion than are space telescopes orbiting above the atmosphere.

(E) CORRECT. This indicates an inherent limitation of space-based telescopes: unlike Earth-based telescopes, they lack the light-gathering capacity that astronomers need to perform one of their primary tasks, i.e., detailed spectral analyses. So Earth-based telescopes are unlikely to soon become obsolete.


[Reveal] Spoiler:
My Reasoning:

My initial answer was (B), and still is. As for answer choice (E), I'm unconvinced because the answer choice doesn't point out unambiguously that Earth-based telescopes have that light-gathering capacity that space-based telescopes fall short, even though the explanation just inexplicably claims that capacity for Earth-based telescopes. As a non-expert in this field, I suppose the test takers aren't supposed to infer that space-based and Earth-based telescopes are only two categories of telescopes in a dichotomy, or that Earth-based telescopes inherently have a better light-gathering capacity that the space-based ones.

As for answer (B), from the viewpoint of a domain illiterate, the reference of "make stars appear to twinkle" doesn't come over as downright inferior and worth being rendered obsolete; the answer actually came over as "The problem with atmospheric distortion becomes abated, to whatever extent, when ground-based telescopes are located on mountain summits; hence, can still be of some use". My choice of (B) over (E) bases primarily on the fact that (E) doesn't explicitly claim for ground-based telescopes the capacity that would make it more useful than space-based ones in that particular regard, while (B) explicitly points out how the weakness of ground-based telescopes can be offset.

Thank you : )



Just for the fact that the space based telescope lack the light-gathering capacity that astronomers need to perform one of their primary tasks, i.e., detailed spectral analyses, can we conclude that the earth base telescopes will not become obsolete ?

I have read all the replies . However, none is able to show how a disadvantage of the space based telescope can make the ground based telescope not OBSOLETE.
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New post 25 May 2017, 23:22
urhowig wrote:
kahipz wrote:
Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Earth's atmosphere. Orbiting space telescopes, however, operating above Earth's atmosphere, should provide superbly detailed images. Therefore, ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

Which of the following statements, if true, would cast the most doubt on the conclusion drawn above?

(A) An orbiting space telescope due to be launched this year is far behind schedule and over budget, whereas the largest ground-based telescope was both within budget and on schedule.

(B) Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

(C) By careful choice of observatory location, it is possible for large-aperture telescopes to avoid most of the kind of wind turbulence that can distort image quality.

(D) When large-aperture telescopes are located at high altitudes near the equator, they permit the best Earth-based observations of the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, a prime target of astronomical research.

(E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Answer Key

Two controversial choices (for me)

(B) Ground-based telescopes on mountain summits are still subject to more atmospheric distortion than are space telescopes orbiting above the atmosphere.

(E) CORRECT. This indicates an inherent limitation of space-based telescopes: unlike Earth-based telescopes, they lack the light-gathering capacity that astronomers need to perform one of their primary tasks, i.e., detailed spectral analyses. So Earth-based telescopes are unlikely to soon become obsolete.


[Reveal] Spoiler:
My Reasoning:

My initial answer was (B), and still is. As for answer choice (E), I'm unconvinced because the answer choice doesn't point out unambiguously that Earth-based telescopes have that light-gathering capacity that space-based telescopes fall short, even though the explanation just inexplicably claims that capacity for Earth-based telescopes. As a non-expert in this field, I suppose the test takers aren't supposed to infer that space-based and Earth-based telescopes are only two categories of telescopes in a dichotomy, or that Earth-based telescopes inherently have a better light-gathering capacity that the space-based ones.

As for answer (B), from the viewpoint of a domain illiterate, the reference of "make stars appear to twinkle" doesn't come over as downright inferior and worth being rendered obsolete; the answer actually came over as "The problem with atmospheric distortion becomes abated, to whatever extent, when ground-based telescopes are located on mountain summits; hence, can still be of some use". My choice of (B) over (E) bases primarily on the fact that (E) doesn't explicitly claim for ground-based telescopes the capacity that would make it more useful than space-based ones in that particular regard, while (B) explicitly points out how the weakness of ground-based telescopes can be offset.

Thank you : )



Just for the fact that the space-based telescope lacks the light-gathering capacity that astronomers need to perform one of their primary tasks, i.e., detailed spectral analyses, can we conclude that the earth base telescopes will not become obsolete?

I have read all the replies. However, none is able to show how a disadvantage of the space-based telescope can make the ground-based telescope not OBSOLETE.


My argument in support of E. Here we have to keep in mind that only space and ground-based telescopes are within the scope of the passage. So whenever space-based telescope fails, ground-based telescopes will come in handy. Finally, you have to choose the option that does most damage among 5, so the best answer may not be the absolutely fool-proof solution.

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New post 02 Jul 2017, 08:06
What happens here is that when we automatically see a weaken question we focus on just weakening the conclusion. Its important to understand the connection of why the author ended with his conclusion, in this case, the premise. The statement says: Therefore (conclusion indicator), ground based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

If you only focus on the part of "GB telescopes will soon become obsolete" and based it on the fact that its because of disorted images, then yes, you will fall for trap answer B.

But look more closely, it is saying it will become obsolete for a particular reason (it never says it will become completely obsolete) and that reason is for advanced astronomical research. So we need to look for an answer that states that the GB telescope is still needed for that research and that it has a unique quality that the space telescope does not have. And only answer E states that.

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New post 30 Jul 2017, 07:02
@gmatninja my issue with OA is that even though option E suggests that space telescopes have a drawback and cannot do a certain thing, it does not cast doubt on the argument that ground telescopes might become obsolete. maybe there would be a new kind of telescope/maybe even ground telescopes suck at that thing. We dont know!
is this not a very good quality QG question?

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New post 23 Aug 2017, 06:00
I selected B.

I read through all the comments and it seems like many of us questioning the OA are missing something basic, but simply unable comprehend what.

In my case, E seemed like a strengthener. But B didn't challenge it completely but it definitely gave GBT some purpose.

C: GBT will become obsolete for AARP
P: GBT has atmospheric distortion in images but OSTs has no distortion and super detail in images.

So, putting it in perspective of AARP:

GBT
Image detail: Distorted
Light gathering capacity: Not-known

OST
Image detail: Spectacular
Light gathering capacity: Not enough apparently

Option B -
Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

Wait, don't rule out GBT yet! here's something positive about it.

[On another note, the language in the modifier uses a non-essential "which" that made it look like the option was referring to atmospheric distortion in general, and that atmospheric distortion only makes stars appear to twinkle. Even if they had worded it as kinds of atmospheric distortion "THAT" makes stars appear to twinkle, we couldn't have ruled out B since it does strengthen GBT]

Option E - Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

Okay, here is where I got stuck (or derailed, or whatever :sad: ).
Q1 - Does AARP need detailed images? (We don't know that)
GBT is out; OST stands a chance
Q2 - Does AARP need more light gathering capacity? (we know it does)
GBT may already be unfit since it produced distorted images; OST, which stood a chance, is also out now.

In order for Option E to be correct, we have to make 2 assumptions.
1. Distortion is ok for AARP
2. Spectral analysis counts as AARP (probably a safe assumption)

In order for Option B to be correct, we didn't have to make any assumption.


So, I went with [B].

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh also, in the 2 mins, I cooked up a mental image of 2 students A and B.
A doesn't score above 90 percentile in GMAT.
B simply kills it in GMAT.

So, for 1-student program, A will not get an admit.

On GMAT day,
Option B - A may perform better. Increases chances of A's admit directly.
Option E - B is sick and won't attend GMAT. Just say's B won't be the guy who'll kill A's chances. Is there a C (like a telescope on moon perhaps? :| )

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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the [#permalink]

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New post 23 Aug 2017, 06:13
Situation: Earth's atmosphere distorts images from ground-based telescopes, whereas space telescopes orbiting above the atmosphere should provide superbly detailed images.

Reasoning: Find the statement that claims that ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research.

E is Correct - This indicates an inherent limitation of space-based telescopes: unlike Earth-based telescopes, they lack the light-gathering capacity that astronomers need to perform one of their primary tasks, i.e., detailed spectral analyses. So Earth-based telescopes are unlikely to soon become obsolete
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the [#permalink]

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New post 23 Aug 2017, 06:25
AnubhavK wrote:
Situation: Earth's atmosphere distorts images from ground-based telescopes, whereas space telescopes orbiting above the atmosphere should provide superbly detailed images.

Reasoning: Find the statement that claims that ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research.

E is Correct - This indicates an inherent limitation of space-based telescopes: unlike Earth-based telescopes, they lack the light-gathering capacity that astronomers need to perform one of their primary tasks, i.e., detailed spectral analyses. So Earth-based telescopes are unlikely to soon become obsolete


Your answer is correct, but the reasoning is wrong. It doesn't say this :unlike Earth-based telescopes, they lack the light-gathering capacity

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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the [#permalink]

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New post 23 Aug 2017, 07:09
Here's the official explanation for reasoning:

The argument implicitly assumes that advanced astronomical research can be accomplished more effectively with the more
detailed, less distorted images produced by space telescopes and that therefore almost all advanced astronomical research will soon be conducted with space telescopes. This reasoning would be undermined by evidence that ground-based telescopes have substantial advantages for advanced astronomical research despite their distorted images or by evidence that space telescopes will not soon become common or affordable enough to support most advanced astronomical research.

Hope this helps. Thanks.

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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the   [#permalink] 23 Aug 2017, 07:09

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