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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
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I have one doubt-: Option E just states that Space telescopes have some adversaries . But It doesn't mean that Ground telescope have these benefits . Thats why i chose A over E. Can someone please explain me this?
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
Harshjha001 wrote:
I have one doubt-: Option E just states that Space telescopes have some adversaries . But It doesn't mean that Ground telescope have these benefits . Thats why i chose A over E. Can someone please explain me this?


Hey Harshjha001, although it sounds like you have an idea about why A is wrong, but chose it because it seemed the least wrong, I'm still sharing my view on both the options.

Option A - This option is wrong because it is literally talking about 2 specific telescopes. So what if one space telescope argument could not be completed in the desired manner? Does that in anyway mean that the others wont be? Sure, it is possible, but it does not make sense to question the viability of space telescopes just because 1 didn't work out. Moreover, the argument says that ground telescopes will soon become obsolete as the space telescopes provide detailed images. The argument never says that the ground telescopes have a budget problem so pointing out 1 ground telescope (albeit the largest) and saying that it was completed on time and within budget is not really doing anything to the argument. The scope of option 2 is so narrow and away from the main point that it does not help us in anyway.

Before we get to option E, I'd like to point out that sometimes, the right answer will not be perfect, but it will be right. Remember the question is which of the following would cast the most doubt
and not which of the following definitely disproves the statement


Option E - Option E basically says that space telescopes are not perfect. They can't do everything that we need to do. Of course, we don't know if ground telescopes can do so or not, but that is why it is important to pay attention to the language of the question. Space telescopes might very well end up making the ground telescopes obsolete, but it is incorrect to say so on the basis of 1 advantage.

This option may not be ideal, but is definitely the best of the lot. Hope this helps! :)

Originally posted by MBAB123 on 14 May 2021, 00:07.
Last edited by MBAB123 on 16 May 2021, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma wrote:
enigma1504 wrote:
Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

This does not state that ground-based telescopes are providing with the more light-gathering capacity required? How does one understand that?

VeritasKarishma GMATNinja



saby1410, aritrar4, mk96, enigma1504 - Missed some tags to this question. Here is a detailed analysis. Hope you find it useful.

Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Earth's atmosphere (in some way, whether winds, dust etc)

Orbiting space telescopes (above Earth's atmosphere) should provide superbly detailed images. Note the use of "should" - presumably because Earth's atmosphere does not interfere in their working. Does it actually happen, we don't know.

Conclusion: Ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

We need to weaken that ground based telescopes will become obsolete. They may have a disadvantage to space telescope but they may have some advantage too. Let's look at the options.

(A) An orbiting space telescope due to be launched this year is far behind schedule and over budget, whereas the largest ground-based telescope was both within budget and on schedule.

Irrelevant. There is no implication here that orbiting telescopes are far more expensive and difficult to launch. We are just told about this year's project is lagging while the project of ground telescope was on time and budget. We don't know what budget was allocated to each project.

(B) Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

So one kind of atmospheric distortion (which makes stars appear to twinkle) can be taken care of by placing the ground based telescopes on mountain summits. But does this take care of all atmospheric distortions? Does it make ground based telescopes relevant? We don't know. So will ground based telescopes become obsolete? Can't say.

(C) By careful choice of observatory location, it is possible for large-aperture telescopes to avoid most of the kind of wind turbulence that can distort image quality.

So another kind of issue can be taken care of by carefully choosing location. So again, does this mean ground based telescope will stay relevant? Cannot say.

(D) When large-aperture telescopes are located at high altitudes near the equator, they permit the best Earth-based observations of the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, a prime target of astronomical research.

How we get the best "Earth based observations" is irrelevant.

(E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

A certain method which is used by astronomers to find data about stars requires telescope with more light gathering capacity than space telescopes. For at least this application then, ground telescopes will remain relevant. It is a method used by astronomers so it is reasonable to assume that ground based telescopes provide this facility. Else, how do the astronomers use detailed spectral analyses? After all, astronomers rely on it for determining the history of stars.
Hence it weakens that ground based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

Answer (E)



VeritasKarishma ChiranjeevSingh GMATNinja


To reject D, can we also say that it talks about astronomical research, whereas the conclusion talks about advanced astronomical research.

Milky way galaxy may be a target of astronomical research but may not be of advanced astronomical research.

Thank you in advance!
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
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ashmit99
I see where you're coming from, but we don't know that the research mentioned in D is not advanced, so I wouldn't eliminate on those grounds. For all we know, it could be a target of research at all levels. In any case, we don't even need to get to the end of the sentence if we recognize that the best ground-based option could still be superseded if space-based observations are clear and all ground-based images are distorted. This answer is just comparing one ground-based option to others, so it has zero bearing on the argument.
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
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ashmit99 wrote:
VeritasKarishma wrote:
enigma1504 wrote:
Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

This does not state that ground-based telescopes are providing with the more light-gathering capacity required? How does one understand that?

VeritasKarishma GMATNinja



saby1410, aritrar4, mk96, enigma1504 - Missed some tags to this question. Here is a detailed analysis. Hope you find it useful.

Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Earth's atmosphere (in some way, whether winds, dust etc)

Orbiting space telescopes (above Earth's atmosphere) should provide superbly detailed images. Note the use of "should" - presumably because Earth's atmosphere does not interfere in their working. Does it actually happen, we don't know.

Conclusion: Ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

We need to weaken that ground based telescopes will become obsolete. They may have a disadvantage to space telescope but they may have some advantage too. Let's look at the options.

(A) An orbiting space telescope due to be launched this year is far behind schedule and over budget, whereas the largest ground-based telescope was both within budget and on schedule.

Irrelevant. There is no implication here that orbiting telescopes are far more expensive and difficult to launch. We are just told about this year's project is lagging while the project of ground telescope was on time and budget. We don't know what budget was allocated to each project.

(B) Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

So one kind of atmospheric distortion (which makes stars appear to twinkle) can be taken care of by placing the ground based telescopes on mountain summits. But does this take care of all atmospheric distortions? Does it make ground based telescopes relevant? We don't know. So will ground based telescopes become obsolete? Can't say.

(C) By careful choice of observatory location, it is possible for large-aperture telescopes to avoid most of the kind of wind turbulence that can distort image quality.

So another kind of issue can be taken care of by carefully choosing location. So again, does this mean ground based telescope will stay relevant? Cannot say.

(D) When large-aperture telescopes are located at high altitudes near the equator, they permit the best Earth-based observations of the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, a prime target of astronomical research.

How we get the best "Earth based observations" is irrelevant.

(E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

A certain method which is used by astronomers to find data about stars requires telescope with more light gathering capacity than space telescopes. For at least this application then, ground telescopes will remain relevant. It is a method used by astronomers so it is reasonable to assume that ground based telescopes provide this facility. Else, how do the astronomers use detailed spectral analyses? After all, astronomers rely on it for determining the history of stars.
Hence it weakens that ground based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

Answer (E)



VeritasKarishma ChiranjeevSingh GMATNinja


To reject D, can we also say that it talks about astronomical research, whereas the conclusion talks about advanced astronomical research.

Milky way galaxy may be a target of astronomical research but may not be of advanced astronomical research.

Thank you in advance!


"astronomical research" of option (D) would possibly include "advanced astronomical research" too i.e. what is valid for astronomical research, is expected to be valid for basic as well as advanced.
Don't eliminate (D) based on this. So if (D) had given "advanced astronomical research", it wouldn't have been correct.

The problem is that (D) compares all earth based telescopes with each other and tells us which is the best. It does not compare ground based telescopes with orbiting telescopes. So anything (D) says is irrelevant.
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Re: Confusing reasoning on a CR question [#permalink]
I can see why you took issue with (E). It clearly rules out space telescopes, but does it unequivocally state that Earth-based telescopes provide the needed "light-gathering capacity"? If we agree that a telescope is either Earth-based or Space-based, we could make such inference. It is a fact that astronomers rely on detailed spectral analyses for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars. If Space-based telescopes are unable to meet such need, we can assume that all the analyses so far (and for the foreseeable future) remain the domain of earth-based telescopes.

Regarding (D), it only says that "large-aperture telescopes located at high altitudes near the equator permit the best Earth-based observations of the center of the Milky Way Galaxy." What if any Space-based telescope permit even better observations? The key to rule (D) out is "earth-based".
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A very tricky question. But here's a cold truth to remember about the test: the GMAT loves 'binaries.'

It really seems like we only have two kinds of telescopes here: Earth based and space based. Answer E says that there's a certain method that astronomers *rely on* (note: present tense... It is happening *now*) to *do* (again, present tense) a certain kind of science. And space-based telescopes can't help in this kind of research, so that leaves Earth based telescopes to take up the task.

This is also a good 'four wrongs make a right' situation. Your answer choice of D says that there is a certain spot on Earth that gives the best view *from Earth* of the Milky Way. But the argument is that *all* Earth based telescopes (even those in the best location) will become obsolete (due to this atmospheric distortion that affects all earth-based telescopes). That there is a *best location* for Earth based telescopes does not weaken the argument that 'earth based telescopes will become obsolete' (in the same way that saying, "Someone gets fourth place!" doesn't weaken the argument that "Only the top three finishers in an olympic event get medals.")

B and C both talk about how choosing certain locations can help with some issues ground-based telescopes have--but not the thing the argument explicitly states affects *all* earth based telescopes. Answer A is just saying there's been some delays in space telescopes, which doesn't affect the argument that ground based will soon be obsolete.
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma wrote:
enigma1504 wrote:
Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

This does not state that ground-based telescopes are providing with the more light-gathering capacity required? How does one understand that?

VeritasKarishma GMATNinja



saby1410, aritrar4, mk96, enigma1504 - Missed some tags to this question. Here is a detailed analysis. Hope you find it useful.

Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Earth's atmosphere (in some way, whether winds, dust etc)

Orbiting space telescopes (above Earth's atmosphere) should provide superbly detailed images. Note the use of "should" - presumably because Earth's atmosphere does not interfere in their working. Does it actually happen, we don't know.

Conclusion: Ground-based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

We need to weaken that ground based telescopes will become obsolete. They may have a disadvantage to space telescope but they may have some advantage too. Let's look at the options.

(A) An orbiting space telescope due to be launched this year is far behind schedule and over budget, whereas the largest ground-based telescope was both within budget and on schedule.

Irrelevant. There is no implication here that orbiting telescopes are far more expensive and difficult to launch. We are just told about this year's project is lagging while the project of ground telescope was on time and budget. We don't know what budget was allocated to each project.

(B) Ground-based telescopes located on mountain summits are not subject to the kinds of atmospheric distortion which, at low altitudes, make stars appear to twinkle.

So one kind of atmospheric distortion (which makes stars appear to twinkle) can be taken care of by placing the ground based telescopes on mountain summits. But does this take care of all atmospheric distortions? Does it make ground based telescopes relevant? We don't know. So will ground based telescopes become obsolete? Can't say.

(C) By careful choice of observatory location, it is possible for large-aperture telescopes to avoid most of the kind of wind turbulence that can distort image quality.

So another kind of issue can be taken care of by carefully choosing location. So again, does this mean ground based telescope will stay relevant? Cannot say.

(D) When large-aperture telescopes are located at high altitudes near the equator, they permit the best Earth-based observations of the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, a prime target of astronomical research.

How we get the best "Earth based observations" is irrelevant.

(E) Detailed spectral analyses, upon which astronomers rely for determining the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars, require telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide.

A certain method which is used by astronomers to find data about stars requires telescope with more light gathering capacity than space telescopes. For at least this application then, ground telescopes will remain relevant. It is a method used by astronomers so it is reasonable to assume that ground based telescopes provide this facility. Else, how do the astronomers use detailed spectral analyses? After all, astronomers rely on it for determining the history of stars.
Hence it weakens that ground based telescopes will soon become obsolete for advanced astronomical research purposes.

Answer (E)


Conclusion says GBT's will be obsolete only for advanced astronomical purposes, not that they will become obsolete for all other purposes where it would still find its relevance. That being the case, what if detail spectral analysis doesn't fall at all under ''advanced astronomical purposes'', perhaps it is just a job which GBT's are better at doing this. How do we know if the process under consideration actually fall under advanced astronomical purposes.

Then how does that weaken the conclusion? Please assist.
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
Option E . How is it correct?

It is highlighting the limitation Space Telescope but no where mentioned that the GBT has no such limitation or GBT is better than Space Telescope.

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Vibha6 wrote:
Option E . How is it correct?

It is highlighting the limitation Space Telescope but no where mentioned that the GBT has no such limitation or GBT is better than Space Telescope.

Regards

Hi Vibha6,

Let's put some of the information given in the stimulus and in option E down:

1. Astronomers rely on DSA. This means that astronomers are already using DSA to determine the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars.
2. Space telescopes cannot provide DSA; DSA can be provided only by telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide. So DSA needs non-space telescopes.

Because astronomers are already using DSA, and space telescopes can't do DSA, astronomers must be using telescopes that are not space telescopes. Such telescopes must be terrestrial (the opposite of space). Hence E is quite solid as an answer choice.
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Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
AjiteshArun wrote:
Vibha6 wrote:
Option E . How is it correct?

It is highlighting the limitation Space Telescope but no where mentioned that the GBT has no such limitation or GBT is better than Space Telescope.

Regards

Hi Vibha6,

Let's put some of the information given in the stimulus and in option E down:

1. Astronomers rely on DSA. This means that astronomers are already using DSA to determine the chemical composition and evolutionary history of stars.
2. Space telescopes cannot provide DSA; DSA can be provided only by telescopes with more light-gathering capacity than space telescopes can provide. So DSA needs non-space telescopes.

Because astronomers are already using DSA, and space telescopes can't do DSA, astronomers must be using telescopes that are not space telescopes. Such telescopes must be terrestrial (the opposite of space). Hence E is quite solid as an answer choice.


Hi AjiteshArun DmitryFarber - from E

Other than ground-based telescopes and space telescopes -- how do you know there is not a 3rd type of telescope (the argument never mentioned -- space telescopes and ground telescopes are the only two types of telescopes)

There could be under-ground / under-water telescopes (i dont believe an Underground telescope falls under the category of a 'ground-based telescope' -- an Underground /Under-water telescope are both well, under the ground)

-- Here is an article talking about under-ground telescopes here
-- Read about Underwater water telescopes, scanning the sky below : Based on this article, under ground telescopes are a thing
-- Here is another video talking about Russia deploying telescopes -- under the sea (lake baikal specifically - Watch here


Perhaps under water / under ground telescopes are being used for Detailed spectral analyses specifically- we can't say

Under-water / under-ground telescopes may also suffer the same issues as ground telescopes when it comes to distortion by the Earth's atmoshphere BUT Under-water / under-ground telescopes perhaps are being used for Detailed spectral analyses - we dont know !
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Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
Hi DmitryFarber IanStewart avigutman - My question is on B specifically (not E)

In weaken question - we just have to cast doubt on the conclusion -

Wouldn't you agree - B DOES cast doubt on the conclusion, at least a bit ? Here is how

  • Ground space telescope at 'low altitudes' = 50 % clarity
  • Ground space telescopes at 'mountain summits' = 75 % clarity
  • Space telescopes = 99 % clarity


75 % clarity (when Ground space telescopes are placed 'mountain summits' ) is LOWER than 99 % clarity (when space telescopes are being used), so we are within the bounds of the premise.

But going from 50 % clarity to 75 % clarity itself , does cast doubt on the conclusion, a tiny bit - would it not ? Here's how.

Perhaps 50 % clarity -- Ground space telescopes at 'low altitude' are obselete specifically but the same Ground space telescopes at 'high altitude' [75 % clarity] is NOT OBSOLETE specifically

Thats my analysis on B as a weakener -- it 'could' weaken - a teeny bit

Thoughts ?
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Re: Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Wouldn't you agree - B DOES cast doubt on the conclusion, at least a bit ? Here is how


Answer B only compares two types of ground-based telescopes -- it only tells us that some ground telescopes are better than others. It doesn't give us any reason to think that ground telescopes will be more useful, in some cases, than space telescopes, so it doesn't weaken the conclusion.

We already know as a factual premise from the stem that ground telescopes (whether placed on mountains or placed in canyons) are subject to distortion from the atmosphere, while space telescopes are not. Answer B just says that some ground telescopes experience less distortion than others, which still doesn't give us any reason to prefer ground telescopes to space telescopes, no matter where we put the ground telescope.
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IanStewart wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
Wouldn't you agree - B DOES cast doubt on the conclusion, at least a bit ? Here is how


Answer B only compares two types of ground-based telescopes -- it only tells us that some ground telescopes are better than others. It doesn't give us any reason to think that ground telescopes will be more useful, in some cases, than space telescopes, so it doesn't weaken the conclusion.

We already know as a factual premise from the stem that ground telescopes (whether placed on mountains or placed in canyons) are subject to distortion from the atmosphere, while space telescopes are not. Answer B just says that some ground telescopes experience less distortion than others, which still doesn't give us any reason to prefer ground telescopes to space telescopes, no matter where we put the ground telescope.


Well said, IanStewart. jabhatta2 I would just add the following two points:
1. Please note the word "invariably" in the first sentence. This is a very important word. It implies that all ground-based telescopes suck. Answer choice (B) simply lets us know that the degree to which they suck depends on their altitude.
2. The author's reason for the conclusion is that while ground-based telescopes suck, orbiting telescopes provide superbly detailed images. How can the conclusion be weakened? We'd have to find something at which the former are better than the latter. Answer choice B doesn't do that.
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Images from ground-based telescopes are invariably distorted by the Ea [#permalink]
Hi avigutman – I don’t know because if was to create the following analogy when it comes to option B
Quote:

- Blackberry phones invariably weigh heavier
- Average blackberry phone weight is 2 pounds
- Apple phones weigh 1.5 pounds

Conclusion : Blackberry phones are too heavy for folks who want light pockets

I would think this version of option B would be a weakener
Option B) When it comes to blackberry phones specifically – you can remove the physical keyboard from the phone completely – dropping the blackberry phone’s weight to 1.6 pounds

This will weaken because perhaps folks are okay with a 1.6 pound phone in their pockets BUT not a 2 pound phone in their pockets.


Same thing with B i would think....this slight improvement in ground based telescope is enough to perhaps no longer consider it 'obsolete'

Originally posted by jabhatta2 on 12 Jan 2022, 20:33.
Last edited by jabhatta2 on 12 Jan 2022, 20:39, edited 2 times in total.
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jabhatta2 wrote:
AjiteshArun wrote:

Because astronomers are already using DSA, and space telescopes can't do DSA, astronomers must be using telescopes that are not space telescopes. Such telescopes must be terrestrial (the opposite of space). Hence E is quite solid as an answer choice.


Other than ground-based telescopes and space telescopes -- how do you know there is not a 3rd type of telescope


jabhatta2 you're right, we can't assume that space telescopes and ground-based telescopes are MECE.
But, remember: the correct answer needn't destroy the argument completely. It need only cast doubt on the conclusion. So, without knowing anything about telescopes or advanced astronomical research...
When you read answer choice E, does it cause you to reconsider the conclusion? Does this answer give you pause, and make you want to do a bit more research before you proceed with decommissioning all ground-based telescopes? It should.
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi avigutman – I don’t know because if was to create the following analogy when it comes to option B
Quote:

- Blackberry phones invariably weigh heavier
- Average blackberry phone weight is 2 pounds
- Apple phones weigh 1.5 pounds

Conclusion : Blackberry phones are too heavy for folks who want light pockets

I would think this version of option B would be a weakener
Option B) When it comes to blackberry phones specifically – you can remove the physical keyboard from the phone completely – dropping the blackberry phone’s weight to 1.6 pounds

This will weaken because perhaps folks are okay with a 1.6 pound phone in their pockets BUT not a 2 pound phone in their pockets.


jabhatta2 I'm going to tweak your analogy a bit to make it more fitting. Let me know whether this helps you see the issue:

Blackberry phones are invariably heavy [distorted]. iPhones, however, are extremely light [superbly detailed images]. Therefore, Blackberry phones will soon become obsolete for folks who want light pockets.

(B) Some newer Blackberry phones aren't as heavy as the older Blackberry phones, which rip holes in pockets [[i]make stars appear to twinkle/i]]
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