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# Jane and William will represent our school at the modern

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Senior Manager
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Re: our school at the modern arts [#permalink]

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24 Nov 2010, 00:16
I agree that Both words explain the reason for something but they are not interchangeable. Here For can not replace Because. For can be used to explain the reason why Jane and William will represent our school, but in that case sentence should be
"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention for their creations have been outstanding this semester." "," should be omitted if using FOR.

or

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

now keep ; and omit because

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; their creations have been outstanding this semester"

we can simply use ";" as second part is an information that can stand independently. Because is not written but we can get meaning that second part is the reason of first part's happening.

as done in option C.

Correct me if I am doing it wrong.

Thanks.

Nitya, I agree ',' is not required in option A.

[/quote]

and thanks for such a wonderful explanation.
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Re: our school at the modern arts [#permalink]

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24 Nov 2010, 01:47
321kumarsushant wrote:
I agree that Both words explain the reason for something but they are not interchangeable. Here For can not replace Because. For can be used to explain the reason why Jane and William will represent our school, but in that case sentence should be
"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention for their creations have been outstanding this semester." "," should be omitted if using FOR.

or

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

now keep ; and omit because

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; their creations have been outstanding this semester"

we can simply use ";" as second part is an information that can stand independently. Because is not written but we can get meaning that second part is the reason of first part's happening.

as done in option C.

Correct me if I am doing it wrong.

Thanks.

Nitya, I agree ',' is not required in option A.

and thanks for such a wonderful explanation.[/quote]
I dont agree with you on
"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"
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Re: our school at the modern arts [#permalink]

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24 Nov 2010, 02:01
mundasingh123 wrote:
321kumarsushant wrote:
I agree that Both words explain the reason for something but they are not interchangeable. Here For can not replace Because. For can be used to explain the reason why Jane and William will represent our school, but in that case sentence should be
"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention for their creations have been outstanding this semester." "," should be omitted if using FOR.

or

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

now keep ; and omit because

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; their creations have been outstanding this semester"

we can simply use ";" as second part is an information that can stand independently. Because is not written but we can get meaning that second part is the reason of first part's happening.

as done in option C.

Correct me if I am doing it wrong.

Thanks.

Nitya, I agree ',' is not required in option A.

and thanks for such a wonderful explanation.

I dont agree with you on
"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"[/quote]

@munda Singh
if you dont agree with me,,
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Re: our school at the modern arts [#permalink]

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24 Nov 2010, 08:33
(A) convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester -
(B) convention, their creations in this having been outstanding this semester - (being; having been are always a big avoid on GMAT)(C) convention; their creations this semester have been outstanding - correctly maintains the two independent clauses, and also with the sequencing of events (creations; this semseter; have been outstanding)
(D) convention; they having been outstanding in their creations this semester
(E) convention, for they have this semester done outstanding creations - last clause "is awkward contruction o the sentence....also "they" can refer to any noun.

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Re: our school at the modern arts [#permalink]

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24 Nov 2010, 08:37
321kumarsushant wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote:
321kumarsushant wrote:
I agree that Both words explain the reason for something but they are not interchangeable. Here For can not replace Because. For can be used to explain the reason why Jane and William will represent our school, but in that case sentence should be
"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention for their creations have been outstanding this semester." "," should be omitted if using FOR.

or

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

now keep ; and omit because

"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; their creations have been outstanding this semester"

we can simply use ";" as second part is an information that can stand independently. Because is not written but we can get meaning that second part is the reason of first part's happening.

as done in option C.

Correct me if I am doing it wrong.

Thanks.

Nitya, I agree ',' is not required in option A.

and thanks for such a wonderful explanation.

I dont agree with you on
"Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"

@munda Singh
if you dont agree with me,,
My response was wrt "Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention; because their creations have been outstanding this semester"
The sentence after the semicolon is not independent
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Re: our school at the modern arts [#permalink]

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09 Jan 2011, 09:36
I more or less agree with C although I thought "their creations this semester have been outstanding" sounds awkward compared to A.

So my question would be: Is it absolutely to wrong to use a comma before "for", when "for" is being used in place of because?
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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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27 Nov 2011, 12:06

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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29 Nov 2011, 07:24
i will go with C
its clear n crisp
with semicolon, two indep clauses are used
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Re: our school at the modern arts [#permalink]

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01 Dec 2011, 04:06
BarneyStinson wrote:
swatirpr wrote:

Hmmmmm, your explanation makes sense to me. There are actually several different ways of establishing a casual relationship between independent clauses to form meaningful wholesome sentences.

"," cannot precede "for".
",because", ";because" and ";" can all sound similar.

Most SC questions, the trick is to just listen to your ear. But there are questions as well that can trick the ear.
Interesting!!!!!

I didn't agree with you "'" cannot precede "for". The usage is FANBOYS, "for" plays a role of coordinator. My first choice is A because the relation cause-effect is necessary. I am totally not convinced with your guys explanation above about choice C.
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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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03 Dec 2011, 14:55
imo a

from og
The Olympic Games helped to keep peace among the pugnacious states of the Greek world in that a sacred truce was proclaimed during the festival's month.

(A) Same
(B) world, proclaiming a sacred truce during the festival’s month
(C) world when they proclaimed a sacred truce for the festival month
(D) world, for a sacred truce was proclaimed during the month of the festival
(E) world by proclamation of a sacred truce that was for the month of the festival

oa is d - as "for" stands for because

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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04 Dec 2011, 23:57
Manhattan sc book - idiom strategy , pg 146 - has used "for" that is working as "because" and has placed it with comma. With this logic , option "A" appears a correct choice .

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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05 Dec 2011, 23:22
for as subordinator is wrong with "," and hence A and E are out.
between B,C,D

B "sentence is awkward as "this" spoils the sentence.

D : they and their are ackward

hence C
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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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20 Dec 2011, 21:24
After reading all posts, I would argue for A since no one can find anything truly wrong with it. It is formal proper english.

C would mean we have two independent clauses, which means they could stand alone. However, 'Their creations this semester have been outstanding' cannot! No one would know who this sentence is referring to. Eliminate

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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21 Dec 2011, 01:20
+1 for C. Independent clauses.

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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21 Dec 2011, 01:50
we cannot add two independent clause just using comma. Semi colon is needed. C is using it better way.

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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27 Nov 2012, 07:30
Quote:
Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester.

(A) convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester
(B) convention, their creations in this having been outstanding this semester
(C) convention; their creations this semester have been outstanding
(D) convention; they having been outstanding in their creations this semester
(E) convention, for they have this semester done outstanding creations

I had trouble with this at first. A and C are both grammatically correct. You can connect two independent and related sentences with either a semi-colon or a comma and a FANBOY (the comma can be optional depending on how it affects the meaning). Here each clause in A and C is independent. For is the correct conjunction because it shows purpose or why (basically, "for" functions identically to "because," except that "for" is for connecting 2 independent clauses instead of a dependent clause to an independent clause).

So why A or C if each construction is okay? Let's look at the differences:

(A) convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester
(C) convention; their creations this semester have been outstanding

Whenever something moves around, ALWAYS consider how it affects the meaning because it is often a modifier issue. Here, what is "this semester" modifying?

In A, it modifies the verb "have been" and tells us when the creations were outstanding. This is an improper meaning because it implies that the creations existed before this semester and now are outstanding (think of a sports player that is having a good season this year). It is odd to say that art was outstanding during a specific time period - art would be either outstanding or not and that wouldn't change.

In C, it is a restrictive modifier for "their creations" and tells us that their creations that came into existence this semester are outstanding. Therefore, C has the correct intended meaning.

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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27 Nov 2012, 08:03
Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester.

(A) convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester Could be correct, chose C because t seemed more concise
(B) convention, their creations in this having been outstanding this semester having been awkward. In all this choice is wordy
(C) convention; their creations this semester have been outstanding Correct
(D) convention; they having been outstanding in their creations this semesterhaving been awkward. In total, choice is wordy
(E) convention, for they have this semester done outstanding creations for they have this semester done- awkward

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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28 Nov 2012, 00:50
I am going to give my 2 cents.....
Option A: convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester--> "This semester" is modifying have been. Means The creation existed before and now become outstanding. This is not the intended meaning. Intended meaning is this semester creations are outstanding. hence "this semester" is a noun modifier.

As this is noun modifier should be placed next to noun creation. Hence option A is wrong.

For can be preceded by "," when working as conjunction in a sentence.
Option C: convention; their creations this semester have been outstanding--> Two independent clauses are connected by ";"--Correct.
Modifier error is rectified ("this semester" clearly modifies creation.) Intended meaning is preserved. Hence option C is correct
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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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21 Nov 2013, 12:07
gmataspirant2009 wrote:
Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester.

(A) convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester
(B) convention, their creations in this having been outstanding this semester
(C) convention; their creations this semester have been outstanding
(D) convention; they having been outstanding in their creations this semester
(E) convention, for they have this semester done outstanding creations

My suggestion. This question is poor written. Do NOT study a question that you do NOT know its source. If you don't know the source, why you study?
The more you study, the lower scores you get.

First of all, there is NO problem with A because:
- "for" is a perfect substitution of "because" if it is put in the middle of a sentence and after a comma.
- In addition, we need cause-effect structure to make the sentence sensible.
- Moreover, in C the adverb phrase "this semester" is put in the middle of the question. That's quite weird in official writing that prefers adverb phrase put at the beginning or at the end of a sentence.

You can refer to a famous OFFICIAL question from OG in which "for" means "because".
the-olympic-games-helped-to-keep-peace-among-the-pugnacious-85874.html

Enjoy official questions folks.
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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern [#permalink]

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21 Nov 2013, 13:16
pqhai wrote:
gmataspirant2009 wrote:
Jane and William will represent our school at the modern arts convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester.

(A) convention, for their creations have been outstanding this semester
(B) convention, their creations in this having been outstanding this semester
(C) convention; their creations this semester have been outstanding
(D) convention; they having been outstanding in their creations this semester
(E) convention, for they have this semester done outstanding creations

My suggestion. This question is poor written. Do NOT study a question that you do NOT know its source. If you don't know the source, why you study?
The more you study, the lower scores you get.

First of all, there is NO problem with A because:
- "for" is a perfect substitution of "because" if it is put in the middle of a sentence and after a comma.
- In addition, we need cause-effect structure to make the sentence sensible.
- Moreover, in C the adverb phrase "this semester" is put in the middle of the question. That's quite weird in official writing that prefers adverb phrase put at the beginning or at the end of a sentence.

You can refer to a famous OFFICIAL question from OG in which "for" means "because".
the-olympic-games-helped-to-keep-peace-among-the-pugnacious-85874.html

Enjoy official questions folks.

I agree that one should avoid unofficial questions. That being said, this one isn't so bad. The GMAT loves to move modifiers around to create subtle differences in meaning. Here are a few official examples:

OG13SC6 surpassed only/only surpassed (diabetes-together-with-its-serious-complications-ranks-21132.html)
OG13SC14 placement of corresponding/correspondingly (rising-inventories-when-unaccompanied-correspondingly-by-97784.html)

As to your post, the modifier "this semester" is actually an adjective because it is an essential modifier to identify the specific creations in question, so I disagree that it should be placed at the end.

I also disagree that adverbs should be at the beginning or end as a general rule. There are many times in which adverbs are in the middle of the sentence in GMAT (and sometimes placement in the middle can also create a much clearer meaning than placement at the end), so I wouldn't rely on that - the meaning and clarity are probably more important. Here is an example of this from the verbal review:

according-to-its-proponents-a-proposed-new-style-of-63927.html

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Re: Jane and William will represent our school at the modern   [#permalink] 21 Nov 2013, 13:16

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