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# Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of

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12 Jul 2010, 02:54
Briliiant Explantion. Thanks
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12 Jul 2010, 03:08
Serbiano - Thanks a lot for your post and explanation!!
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03 Aug 2010, 13:16
thanks a lot for explanation too .............My option too was E......
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04 Aug 2010, 07:09
I narrowed to A and E but chose A...
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12 Sep 2010, 03:50
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30 Sep 2010, 08:08
Any one for C?
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06 Apr 2011, 02:11
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06 Apr 2011, 06:12
Great post Serbiano and an equally good insight into the thought process
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18 May 2011, 04:49
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Re: Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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10 Oct 2013, 11:10
Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

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Re: Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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24 Oct 2013, 23:55
it took me 3 minutes to figure this one out.

A Mark’s argument shows how a weakness in Jane’s argument can be
overcome. Incorrect. He is giving his own understanding and observation about modifying guitar, not anything to what Jane says.

B Mark’s argument has a premise in common with Jane’s argument. Incorrect. They both agree to the same conclusion ( Harper's ideas for modifying guitars is not good) but not based on the same premise.

C Mark and Jane use similar techniques to argue for different conclusions. Incorrect. They have the same conclusion.

D Mark’s argument restates Jane’s argument in other terms. Incorrect. They have the same conclusion but not the same premise. Although this looks like a very attractive choice

E Mark’s argument and Jane’s argument are based on conflicting suppositions.Correct. Jane believes that there is no way to evaluate the merit of a guitar sound but Mark believes that it can be done. (....It took only ten years for the Torres design for guitars to be almost universally adopted because of the improvement it makes in tonal quality....)
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Re: Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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10 Apr 2014, 20:51
Jane: Professor Harper’s ideas for modifying the design of guitars are of no
value because there is no general agreement among musicians as to what a
guitar should sound like and, consequently, no widely accepted basis for
evaluating the merits of a guitar’s sound.
Mark: What’s more, Harper’s ideas have had enough time to be adopted if
they really resulted in superior sound. It took only ten years for the Torres
design for guitars to be almost universally adopted because of the
improvement it makes in tonal quality. Which one of the following most
accurately describes the relationship between Jane’s argument and Mark’s
argument?

A Mark’s argument shows how a weakness in Jane’s argument can be
overcome. => there is no information to see that Mark points out a weakness in Jane's argument but he rather adds more reasons for the same conclusion as Jane (dont agree for Pr.Harper idea)

B Mark’s argument has a premise in common with Jane’s argument. => They have different premises. Jane: dont agree with the idea b/c there is no agreement among musicians, whereas Mark disagrees with the Harper's idea b/c if the idea is good, it would be adopted.

C Mark and Jane use similar techniques to argue for different conclusions. => they have same conclusion (disagree with Harper idea)

D Mark’s argument restates Jane’s argument in other terms. => they have different argument

E Mark’s argument and Jane’s argument are based on conflicting suppositions. =>clear, elimination technique from above, this is the correct one!
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Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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09 Feb 2015, 06:20
That's definitely not a Sub 600 question --> I would say - 700+
This question is form PowerScore CR Bible, they have really tough and interesting questions.....
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Re: Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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31 Mar 2016, 10:48
Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

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Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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17 Apr 2016, 06:31
serbiano wrote:
Jane: Professor Harper’s ideas for modifying the design of guitars are of no
value because there is no general agreement among musicians as to what a
guitar should sound like and, consequently, no widely accepted basis for
evaluating the merits of a guitar’s sound.
Mark: What’s more, Harper’s ideas have had enough time to be adopted if
they really resulted in superior sound. It took only ten years for the Torres
design for guitars to be almost universally adopted because of the
improvement it makes in tonal quality. Which one of the following most
accurately describes the relationship between Jane’s argument and Mark’s
argument?

A Mark’s argument shows how a weakness in Jane’s argument can be
overcome.

B Mark’s argument has a premise in common with Jane’s argument.

C Mark and Jane use similar techniques to argue for different conclusions.

D Mark’s argument restates Jane’s argument in other terms.

E Mark’s argument and Jane’s argument are based on conflicting suppositions.

ANY TAKERS?

I guess this question was made by carcass.

souvik101990 offered an explanation I consider partly logical and partly crooked. ( NB: I have a reputation for disagreeing with initial explanations)
He artfully threw off A.
Here is Souvik's combination of remarkable logic and twisted sophistry.

Quote:
This is one of the greatest Method of Reasoning questions of all time.
First take a close look at the statements made by Jane
and Mark. In the majority
of GMAT questions with two speakers—one
identifiably male and the other
identifiably female—the male makes a mistake or an
error of reasoning and
the female uses sound reasoning. This does not
occur in every problem, but
it occurs enough to be more than random. Why? The
thinking goes that in
order for GMAC to protect themselves against
accusations that they are
biased against women, they create problems where
the male is clearly the
one using faulty reasoning. Jane’s position: Jane
concludes that Professor
Harper’s ideas are valueless because there is no
way to evaluate a guitar
sound and determine what constitutes a better-
sounding guitar. Mark’s
position: Mark also agrees that Professor Harper’s
ideas are valueless, but
Mark’s reasoning is that if Harper’s ideas really
worked, then they would have
been adopted by now. In making this analysis, Mark
reveals that he believes
there is a way to determine that one guitar sounds
better than another. Like
all GMAT questions, you must lock down the exact
nature of the premises
and conclusions! Mark’s initial comment of “What’s
to believe he is in complete agreement with Jane.
Yes, he agrees with her
conclusion, but his reason for doing so is
completely contrary to Jane’s
reason. Mark actually misinterprets Jane’s claim,
and this is why he says
of information that
supports her position. He is not; the premise that he
premises. If you simply accept “What’s more” to
mean that he is in complete
agreement with Jane, you will most certainly miss
the question, and have no
idea you have done so. The problem becomes even
more challenging
because the answer choices are brilliantly
Mark does not address a weakness in Jane’s
argumentor show how one
could be overcome. Do not mistake the use of
“What’s more” to automatically
This is an answer chosen by many people, and it
hasShell game aspects.
Mark’s argument does not have a premise in
common with Jane’s argument;
rather, Mark’s argument has the conclusion in
common with Jane’s
argument. Before you select this answer, use the
“Which premise do the two arguments have in
common?” You won’t be able
to find one, and that would instantly disprove the
This is a very clever Reverse Answer choice. The
Jane use similar techniques to argue for different
conclusions.” In fact, the
following happens in the stimulus: “Mark and Jane
use different techniques to
argue for similar conclusions.” If you had any doubt
that the makers of the
GMAT put the same amount of work into the wrong
choice (D): An argument is the sum of the premises
and conclusion. Although
Mark restates Jane’s conclusion, he does not
restate her premises.
Therefore, he does not restate her argument and
discussed in the argument
analysis, Jane believes that there is no way to
evaluate the merit of a guitar’s
sounds. On the opposite side, Mark’s response
indicates he believes that
there is a way to evaluate the merit of a guitar’s
sound (“because of the
improvement it makes in tonal quality”) and thus
the two have conflicting
positions. This is another great example of a
separator question: one that
scorers in a certain range will get and scorers in a
lower range will not get.
This is also a dangerous question because many
people think they have
chosen the correct answer when in fact they have
missed it. The lesson here
is that you must be an active, prepared reader. Do
not allow yourself to be
lured by Mark’s comment of “What’s more” into
believing that he
automatically is in agreement with Jane. The test
makers use that phrase to
see if you will read closely enough to discern his
real argument or if you will
simply gloss over his comments on the basis of
how they are introduced. The
GMAT always makes you pay if you gloss over any
section of a stimulus.

This question is odd.
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Re: Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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17 Apr 2016, 06:56
How did some guys conclude that Mark and Jane have same conclusion.
Can someone show me something in Mark's argument that says or infers that professors ideas are valueless?

This thread looks like a creed class and everyone is singing along.
I need to get it. What's Mark's conclusion?
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Re: Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of [#permalink]

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20 Apr 2017, 11:24
J : H's modification ideas for the guitars have no value since there is no general criterion for determining the merit of a guitar's sound (musicians dont agree about it )

M: Additionally, H's ideas would have been adopted by now if they were a real improvement, since it took only 10 years for the T design to be universally adopted because of its improved tone.

What is the relationship between J and M's arguments?

A. This is actually a different reason and is not necessarily a weakness of Jane's argument. It only presents a new reason for why H's ideas are of no value.

B. Well the premise is actually not the same. J's premise is that "There is no general criterion for determining the merit of a guitar's sound" to reach the conclusion that "H's modifications have no value." M's premise is that "Torres took only 10 years to be adopted for the improved tone." to reach the conclusion that "H's modifications can't have value because if they did they would have been adopted". These are actually conflicting ideas, since M actually believes that Torres managed to create a universally acceptable design idea, which opposes Jane's claim that this cannot be achieved due to disagreement.

C. The conclusion is the same.

D. It's not the same argument, as we proved in B.

E. This is exactly the conclusion we arrived at from B. M and J rely on conflicting suppositions, i.e. opposite ideas.

Pick E.
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Re: Jane: Professor Harper s ideas for modifying the design of   [#permalink] 20 Apr 2017, 11:24

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