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Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in

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Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in [#permalink]

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Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893.

(A) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he
(B) The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had
(C) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
(D) The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he
(E) Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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ritula wrote:
Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893.

(A) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he
(B) The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had
(C) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
(D) The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he
(E) Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he


I am going to try to use the split and resplit method I just studied from manhattan gmat.

First split, the action happened in 886 is before the past action in 893; therefore, past perfect is needed. So eliminate A, C, and D.

Second split, it does not have clear referent. So eliminate C, D, and E

The correct answer should be B. Total time used to answer this question 30secs.

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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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jainu wrote:
ritula wrote:
Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893.

(A) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he
(B) The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had
(C) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
(D) The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he
(E) Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he


answer should be B
3 actions: KA occupying and fortifying....I
KA winning loyality........II
Danes knowing the above facts.........III
III happened after I and II.
I and II happened at same time.
So there is difference in time of occurences of I,II event from III event.
Hence we use past perfect.



Thanks Jainu...A nice approach to solve multiple verb/tense questions in SC ..

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Re: Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in [#permalink]

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Hi All,

Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893.

Image

Since the meaning of the sentence is easy to understand let’s begin the POE. We will identify the errors in the sentence through POE itself.

Choice A: Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he. Incorrect. This choice is incorrect because the verb “did not mean” does not have a subject and that leads to fragment.

Choice B: The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had. Correct. In this choice, verb “did not mean” has a subject “the fact” and that fact is that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886.

Choice C: Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he. Incorrect. Pronoun “it” in this choice is referring to the entire preceding. This is incorrect because a pronoun cannot refer to anything but a noun or another pronoun.

Choice D: The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he. Incorrect. There are two errors here.
1. Subject “The fact” does not have a verb and hence we have a fragment here.
2. Pronoun “it” is again referring to the entire preceding clause.

Choice E: Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he. Incorrect. Pronoun “it” is again referring to the entire preceding clause.

PS: Notice that the chronology of the actions in this sentence is very clear. Mention of the specific years when the actions took place establish the sequence clearly. Still the use of past perfect is preferable here because the sentence says "the fact did not mean". If it said "the fact does not mean", then we could easily do with the simple past tense.

Image

1. When the sequence of the events is established by obvious markers, use of past perfect tense becomes optional.
2. Pronoun can only refer to a noun or another pronoun.
3. Every clause, independent or dependent must have subject-verb pair. Absence of any of the two leads to fragment error.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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ritula wrote:
Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893.

(A) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he
(B) The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had
(C) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
(D) The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he
(E) Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he


answer should be B
3 actions: KA occupying and fortifying....I
KA winning loyality........II
Danes knowing the above facts.........III
III happened after I and II.
I and II happened at same time.
So there is difference in time of occurences of I,II event from III event.
Hence we use past perfect.
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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 24 Mar 2009, 06:55
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Yes OA is B

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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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I feel the fact that is wrong!!

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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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RaviChandra wrote:
I feel the fact that is wrong!!


I also don't like the use of "the fact that." If it is a fact, why not just say so. I don't know what value does this idiom add to any sentence.

But the answer is B in this question, because of the errors in other options.

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Re: Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in [#permalink]

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rohitgoel15 wrote:

Kudos for the explanation Shraddha ..
I have one question. What does the it refer to in the second portion:

Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used itto their advantage in 893.

(A) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he
(B) The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had
(C) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
(D) The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he
(E) Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he


Thanks for the Kudos.
The possessive "its" refers to "London" in this sentence. Citizens belong only a to country and there is just one country mentioned in the sentence before "its". Now, do not get confused to see a possessive pronoun referring to a non-possessive noun. It is absolutely fine for a possessive pronoun to refer to a non-possessive noun. However, a possessive noun cannot be referred to by a non-possessive pronoun.
For example, we cannot say: Lisa's cat is very pretty and she takes very good care of it.
In this sentence, non-possessive "she" cannot be used for possessive Lisa's.

Hope this helps.
Shraddha
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Re: Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in [#permalink]

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New post 07 Apr 2013, 09:33
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Hi, yes you do need the second 'had'

The main sentence is the second part, after the colon.

The underlined section is all prior to the comma and is referring to that later action. So everything in that section happened before the main part of the sentence, so all needs the 'had'

Clear?
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Re: Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in [#permalink]

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OK, Here is the correct answer in full:

The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893.

If you split it down, it is essentially saying:

Because this:

King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had also won the loyalty of its citizens

Happened

This then happened afterwards:

the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893

So every thing that happened first needs to be shown to be further in the past than the stuff that happened second.
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Re: Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in [#permalink]

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New post 18 Mar 2017, 08:08
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RMD007 wrote:
As many of others have posted, since we have timelines defined for each action, do we need past perfect tense here?

Also what is better, Just because of vs The fact that???


In A, the verb "did not mean" does not have a subject - "just because.." is a dependent clause and cannot be the subject of a verb. Hence A is wrong.

"The fact" is a noun and can be subject of the verb "did not mean". Hence B is alright.

Since years are mentioned, simple past would be better.

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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 23 Mar 2009, 03:33
ritula wrote:
Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he also won the loyalty of its citizens: the invading Danes were well aware of this weakness and used it to their advantage in 893.

(A) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he
(B) The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had
(C) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
(D) The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he
(E) Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he


B, tired now, tomorow explain :-D
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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 23 Mar 2009, 03:45
IMHO, "had occupied" is not needed
why not A then?


(A) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he
(B) The fact that King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886 did not mean that he had
(C) Just because King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
(D) The fact that King Alfred occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean that he
(E) Just because King Alfred had occupied and fortified London in 886, it did not mean he
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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 23 Mar 2009, 08:40
Good Q
testing tense
p567826-sc-king

thanks for the discussion
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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 23 Mar 2009, 21:17
So OA is B?

The explanation seems valid but recently I read a question that talked about an 'age' and we didnt use had eventhough we had 2 past events. The discussion said that 'had' was not required because talking about an age was like introducing a new clause in the sentence.

Here I thought the colon introduces a new clause so the first two events dont form a chronology witht he event after the colon.

I thought it was A but I will be content with B if it is the OA.

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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 29 Mar 2010, 13:05
Nevergiveup---where did you find the split and resplit methond in the Manhattan GMAT SC book? I can't fidn it in the book..

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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 29 Mar 2010, 20:43
misterchipper wrote:
Nevergiveup---where did you find the split and resplit methond in the Manhattan GMAT SC book? I can't fidn it in the book..

Thanks


it is their in book in chap-3.

Ans: B
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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 30 Mar 2010, 00:24
I also used the tense logic and arrive at B.
Can anyone can comment on the "Just Because" or "The fact that"?

Are both okay on GMAT or is one preferable to another?

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Re: SCV: King Alfred [#permalink]

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New post 05 Sep 2010, 04:06
Why do we need past perfect if the timeline is already clarified (years 886 and 893)?
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Re: SCV: King Alfred   [#permalink] 05 Sep 2010, 04:06

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