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Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both

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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Dec 2010, 01:24
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IMO, while both the subjunctive mood and infinitive form are usable depending upon the construction, the sentence sould also hold good other secondary parameters.

In the given case, choices containing the infinitive form of ‘to pay’ are not sustainable for reasons of wrong idiom, or modification or llism
C suffers from a host of such problems Employers pay for the jibs and not in the jobs. Additionally what does the relative pronoun 'that' stands for? Skill or jobs? If it is the singular skill, there is a serous SV mismatch because the subordinate verb ‘require’ is plural; if it is jobs, then can it bye-pass the noun just in front and flirt with a distant one? We a re getting stuck with the same old modification debate.

D suffers wrong llism of co- relative conjunction 'whether ….or'. After whether there is a noun (job) while after or there is a verb (is)

E. comparing jobs with a job is improper.

So you may see why C doesn’t make the grade.
If we narrow down to the subjunctive form, then B is instantly out, as we have to use the imperative form of the verb - ‘be’- and not 'should be’

A is the eventual winner.
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Apr 2011, 15:02
In subjunctive construction
subject + verb (such as require) + that + subject + verb in simple form
However the construction in this question is
subject + verb (such as require) + subject + that + verb in simple form
swapping the subject and that -- "requires + of both public and private employers + that + pay be
shouldn't it be -- "requires + that + both public and private employers + pay
Is choice A acceptable? Can anyone explain?
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Jul 2011, 03:40
i have a doudt here.
lets see

Subjunctive has the next construction

subject + verb + that + subject + verb in simple form
or
subject + verb + subject + verb in infinitive

Example:
We urge that you leave now.
We urge you to leave now.

This Q can re-writting to the next
Legislation ... requires .... employers ......
Subject ........verb..........subject..........(and here we need use infinitive)

as i understood we have to use That in next construction

Legislation ... requires ..THAT.. employers ......
Subject ........verb.......THAT..subject..........(and here we need use infinitive without to)
BOT NOT
Legislation ... requires .... employers ....THAT..
Subject ........verb.........subject..........THAT..

This is the link where bb explaine subjunctive subjunctive-and-use-of-that-with-simple-verb-form-79606.html

Please could expert explaine this problem

Thanks in advance
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Sep 2011, 08:41
maximus76 wrote:
In subjunctive construction
subject + verb (such as require) + that + subject + verb in simple form
However the construction in this question is
subject + verb (such as require) + subject + that + verb in simple form
swapping the subject and that -- "requires + of both public and private employers + that + pay be
shouldn't it be -- "requires + that + both public and private employers + pay
Is choice A acceptable? Can anyone explain?


Even I am confused here.
How can I say something like:

It is required of him that pay be ....

I can understand if one says something like:

It is required of him that he pay....
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Mar 2012, 18:30
Another way to look out this question

Legislation.......requires....... As legislation requiring something so it should be followed by THAT

Legislation......requires........that. In the middle modifiers are inserted for confusion.

Correct me if my understanding is wrong.
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Mar 2012, 12:59
(A) that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are

I know answer choice A is correct, but it uses the "preposition + noun + verb-ing"

is this correct because the object of the preposition is jobs and not the "requiring of jobs"? In any case is this an OG problem? I was told in OG they rarely use that construction in a correct ans. choice.
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 10 Mar 2017, 02:14
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Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.
(A) that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are
(B) that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills
(C) to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are
(D) to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills(A)
(E) to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills

What is wrong with option E? When there is "requires of both public and private employers", shouldn't there be "to pay" in the verb form?

Originally posted by gmihir on 17 May 2012, 07:58.
Last edited by abhimahna on 10 Mar 2017, 02:14, edited 1 time in total.
Edited the question
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2012, 07:54
Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

Bossy Verb + THAT + subject + Command Subjunctive

Bare Form (to be) => be for Comand Subjunctive
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 24 May 2012, 06:10
Since this is from a source other than GMAT, I make bold to ask question. Is it comparable skills or skill as given in the passage? If it is skill, one may perhaps notice that skill that are held is very wrong. Therefore, we have to fetch a plural noun for the restrictive pronoun that, by going out of the way to match it with its logical noun jobs, which lies distant. One has the onus to justify that requiring comparable skill is an essential modifier of the noun jobs and hence we can ignore the restrictivity of the pronoun that. Same story with Choice C also, another serious contender.

It is not even required to consider whether it is requires of or simply requires, since it is in the non-underlined part. The need for subjunctive mood arises because it is a legation and therefore statutory. Therefore, we must follow it up with the rest of the requirements of the subjunctive mood such as using that in the sub-clause and the basic form be
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Aug 2012, 23:29
Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

(A) that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are
(B) that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills
(C) to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are
(D) to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills
(E) to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills


I had picked option B. Answer given is A. Kindly explain how?


Link to a similar topic in Verbal Section -> SC's exists.. but the explanation provided is not very clear.

legislation-in-the-canadian-province-of-ontario-requires-of-132738.html?hilit=3. Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 18 Aug 2012, 23:21
A is better than B in a few ways:

The simplest is parallelism. B compares "jobs" to "a job," while A compares "jobs" to "jobs."

Second, B uses "should" with "requires." You don't require that someone *should* do something. You just require that they do it.

Third, the ending of B is ambiguous. With "usually held by men" attached directly to "skills," it looks like the skills, rather than the jobs, might be held by men.
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Oct 2014, 00:12
rashminet84 wrote:
A

(A) that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are correct
(B) that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills parallelism problem (jobs...a job)
(C) to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are (pay in jobs?? not correct)
(D) to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills too wordy
(E) to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills parallelism problem (jobs...a job)



Your analysis for Options B and E are incorrect......

Option B is using 'that' (which is subjunctive mood) and is also using 'should' at the same time... Thats why it is incorrect.
Option E changes the meaning of the original sentence : to pay as much as X is slightly different from paying the same to both. Also demanding and requiring are two separate words and cannot be used interchangeably
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jan 2015, 11:47
TommyWallach wrote:
Hey All,

A lot of conversation here, but no one has yet really gone through it piece by piece and explained what the heck is going on. I'll be that guy!

The verb "to require" can function in two ways. The first is passive: "Something is required TO do something". In this format, we have the passive voice of required. You can't go active (It's not allowed to say "He requires you to do something."), and you have to use the infinitive form of the subordinate verb. THE OTHER version of the verb "to require" is active, and forms the subjunctive of demand (We call them bossy verbs). Bossy verbs always form the same way:

BOSSY VERB CONSTRUCTION: HE demanded THAT Sheila dance.
subject normal verb always have "that" Object verb in the subjunctive

The verb in the subjunctive may be tough to recognize. However, the typical present tense form that goes with the subject "Sheila" is "dances". The subjunctive is generally formed by taking the infinitive form of the verb ("to dance") and removing the "to".

Okay. Now let's look at the question.

3. Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

(A) that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are
ANSWER: Here we have "requires" in the active voice, so we need the bossy verb construction. We get the THAT we need, then the object "pay", then the subjunctive form "be" (it's the infinitive "to be" without the "to"). Looks good!

(B) that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills
PROBLEM: YOU NEVER USE SHOULD in a subjunctive construction. In fact, should gets used SO OFTEN in these types of questions, that it's worth noticing it in all the sentences you look at. Often, it signals a bossy verb subjunctive construction that you might not have noticed otherwise!

(C) to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are
PROBLEM: The "to" is wrong for the subjunctive construction. Also "in jobs" is an incorrect idiom. It should be "for jobs".

(D) to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills
PROBLEM: The "to" is wrong for the subjunctive construction. Also the parallelism is wrong. The wrong two things are being compared.

(E) to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills
PROBLEM: The "to" is wrong for the subjunctive construction. "Jobs" and "a job" aren't parallel.

Hope that helps!

-t


3. Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

(A) that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are
(B) that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills
(C) to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are
(D) to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills
(E) to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills

Please have a closer look at option A :

that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are

That(RP) modifies the immediately preceding noun, which is SKILL in this particular case.
If that is the case then there is a problem with SVA because are is in plural form and skill is in singular.

Please clarify this.
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Aug 2015, 11:09
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rishabchoraria wrote:
souvik101990 wrote:
Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

A. that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are

B. that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills

C. to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are

D. to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills

E. to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills



I picked A. But cannot figure why C would be wrong. Anyone who would like to take a dig at C?



Hello rishabchoraria

I can't find rule but I see some pattern:

If we have subject pronoun (I, you, he, she...) we should use "require that":

We require THAT HE BE here.
She required that everyone attend
The law now requires that parents serve on the committees that plan and evaluate school programs...

And if we have object pronoun (him, them) we should used "required to":

We require HIM TO BE here
The rules also require employers to provide safety training...
All candidates will be required to take a short test.


So it looks like in variant A we have word pay as a noun

Legislation requires employers that pay be --> This is first type of construction and pay is subject pronun so require that is correct

And in variant C we have word pay as a verb
Legislation requires employers to pay the same --> This is second type of construction and employers is object pronoun so require to is correct

If these pattern is correct then require that/require to in this question is a false split and only difference is "pay the same in jobs"
I again can't find the rule but think that pay in jobs is incorrect idiom.
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 05 May 2016, 09:56
souvik101990 wrote:
Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

A. that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are

B. that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills

C. to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are

D. to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills

E. to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills


Requires is a subjunctive word and for Subjunctive mood the structure of the Sentence is

Quote:
subject + verb + that + subject + verb in simple form. . .


So , that is needed for this sentence ( Options C , D and E can be rejected )

Between A & B ; A uses the correct Subjunctive structure of subject + verb + that + subject + verb in simple form. . ., so (A) is the correct Answer !! :P
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 11 May 2016, 11:57
souvik101990 wrote:
Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

A. that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are

B. that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills

C. to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are

D. to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills

E. to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills



Require can be used in both the ways- require that and require to . I want to find out why option E is wrong. Is it because the structure of option E "Require of X to pay" is a bit awkward?

Please explain why E is incorrect?


With thanks,

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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 13 May 2016, 10:05
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yaman1203 wrote:
souvik101990 wrote:
Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.

A. that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are

B. that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills

C. to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are

D. to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills

E. to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills



Require can be used in both the ways- require that and require to . I want to find out why option E is wrong. Is it because the structure of option E "Require of X to pay" is a bit awkward?

Please explain why E is incorrect?


With thanks,

Yaman


Not just awkward.. it is outright wrong - following are the correct usages (probably you missed my previous post):

1. Require someone to do something: correct
2. Require OF someone to do something: wrong
3. Require OF someone that ...command subjunctive...: correct
4. Require OF someone that ..should... : wrong
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 15 May 2016, 02:09
This is a clear Command Subjunctive :-

Hence would require "that"... You can strike out C,D,E.

Second idiomatically you Pay for Services and Not Pay in Services...

Hence A.

I hope my POE is okay..
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 03 Jan 2017, 10:13
understandZERO wrote:
Why in answer choice A word "skill" considered as plural followed by verb "are".
I eliminated A because I thought skill is singular here. Why "require that" is preferred over "require to".


"That" refers to "jobs" - hence "that" is plural, and the verb "are" should also be plural. Jobs (not skills) are held by men.
"Requiring comparable skill" modifies "jobs" and the second modifier "that are usually held by men" refer to the noun and the previous modifier together. (This is an example of an exception to the modifier touch rule).
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Re: Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both  [#permalink]

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New post 10 Mar 2017, 03:20
Legislation in the Canadian province of Ontario requires of both public and private employers that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are usually held by men.
(A) that pay be the same for jobs historically held by women as for jobs requiring comparable skill that are --> CORRECT
(B) that pay for jobs historically held by women should be the same as for a job requiring comparable skills: Subjunctive + Should is always incorrect
(C) to pay the same in jobs historically held by women as in jobs of comparable skill that are Wrong ||ism.
(D) to pay the same regardless of whether a job was historically held by women or is one demanding comparable skills Awkward
(E) to pay as much for jobs historically held by women as for a job demanding comparable skills --> Jobs and Job comparison. Against the original meaning
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