Author 
Message 
TAGS:

Hide Tags

Intern
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 37

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
14 Mar 2017, 12:23
Got it, thank you for highlighting "Any"  it helped.



Manager
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 169
Location: Ghana

Bunuel wrote: Official Solution:
There is at least one viper and at least one cobra in Pandora's box. How many cobras are there?
(1) From any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper.
(2) The total number of snakes in Pandora's box is 99.
This is a hard question that challenges testtaker's logic. It is simple once you understand it but hard if you have never solved it. If you made a mistake on this question, make sure you understand the logic so you can be armed with this new tool for the real test. (1) Statement 1 tells us that from any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper. This does not mean that there are 2 snakes in the box or that there is only 1 viper. Instead, it indicates that at most, there is 1 cobra. This may mean 1 cobra and 1 viper or 1 cobra and 99 vipers. Make sure you understand this distinction. S1 tells us that there is only 1 cobra in the box, which is sufficient. (2) The total number of snakes Pandora's box is 99. Clearly insufficient.
Answer: A Hi Bunuel, Kindly help me understand this: If the question were to be, "how many VIPERS are there?", will (C) be correct in this case?



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59725

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
16 Mar 2017, 07:00
duahsolo wrote: Bunuel wrote: Official Solution:
There is at least one viper and at least one cobra in Pandora's box. How many cobras are there?
(1) From any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper.
(2) The total number of snakes in Pandora's box is 99.
This is a hard question that challenges testtaker's logic. It is simple once you understand it but hard if you have never solved it. If you made a mistake on this question, make sure you understand the logic so you can be armed with this new tool for the real test. (1) Statement 1 tells us that from any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper. This does not mean that there are 2 snakes in the box or that there is only 1 viper. Instead, it indicates that at most, there is 1 cobra. This may mean 1 cobra and 1 viper or 1 cobra and 99 vipers. Make sure you understand this distinction. S1 tells us that there is only 1 cobra in the box, which is sufficient. (2) The total number of snakes Pandora's box is 99. Clearly insufficient.
Answer: A Hi Bunuel, Kindly help me understand this: If the question were to be, "how many VIPERS are there?", will (C) be correct in this case? Yes. From (1) we have that there is 1 cobra and the rest are vipers, from (2) we have that there are 99 snakes, so there must be 98 vipers.
_________________



Intern
Joined: 31 Mar 2017
Posts: 38
GMAT 1: 710 Q45 V42 GMAT 2: 730 Q50 V39 GMAT 3: 740 Q50 V40
GPA: 3.73

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
31 Mar 2017, 12:51
I get the solution but what confused me was the possibility of a third type of snake that is NOT viper or Cobra. I thought the question stem left that possibility open "There is at least one viper and at least one cobra in Pandora's box" could mean that there is 1 Viper, 1 cobra and another type of snake.....nowhere does it say that the box only contains cobra and vipers ^ If this is the case. Should we always assume that it contains just cobra and viper? I don't remember where but there was a similar question maybe on OG where an answer was not sufficient because you couldn't assume a box only holds X and Y unless it specifically said so As such, statement A could mean that you can get 1 Viper and 1 Cobra or 1 Viper and a third type of snake, no?



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59725

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
01 Apr 2017, 06:09
jwang516 wrote: I get the solution but what confused me was the possibility of a third type of snake that is NOT viper or Cobra. I thought the question stem left that possibility open "There is at least one viper and at least one cobra in Pandora's box" could mean that there is 1 Viper, 1 cobra and another type of snake.....nowhere does it say that the box only contains cobra and vipers ^ If this is the case. Should we always assume that it contains just cobra and viper? I don't remember where but there was a similar question maybe on OG where an answer was not sufficient because you couldn't assume a box only holds X and Y unless it specifically said so As such, statement A could mean that you can get 1 Viper and 1 Cobra or 1 Viper and a third type of snake, no? This is also explained on previous pages. The stem clearly says that "There is at least one viper and at least one cobra in Pandora's box". (1) says: From any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper. There cannot be any other type of snake in the box because we know that there is at least one viper and at least one cobra and if there is some other type snake there then we can choose cobra and that snake and the condition will be violated.
_________________



Intern
Joined: 24 Feb 2017
Posts: 31

without total number how can you evaluate that how many cobras in there ?
option A



Intern
Joined: 31 May 2017
Posts: 2

Re M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
18 Jun 2017, 12:20
I think this is a poorquality question and I don't agree with the explanation. For any two snakes from the box, if at least 1 is a viper, that means for any two snakes they are either 1 viper 1 cobra, or 2 vipers zero cobras. How in the world does that imply there is just one cobra. There are so many different combinations that are possible, insufficient.



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59725

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
18 Jun 2017, 12:25
aishakar wrote: I think this is a poorquality question and I don't agree with the explanation. For any two snakes from the box, if at least 1 is a viper, that means for any two snakes they are either 1 viper 1 cobra, or 2 vipers zero cobras. How in the world does that imply there is just one cobra. There are so many different combinations that are possible, insufficient. You should read question more carefully. The question clearly says that "There is at least one viper and at least one cobra in Pandora's box".
_________________



Intern
Joined: 31 May 2017
Posts: 2

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
18 Jun 2017, 13:45
ran787 wrote: the Question Stem says that there is at least 1 viper and at least 1 cobra. It doesn’t state anything else. So basically it is giving us the Minimum number of cobras and vipers.
Now, the first option states that, whenever randomly you select two snakes from the box, at least one is definitely a viper. The meaning of the statement is that whenever randomly you pick up two snakes, either it will be one viper or it will be 2 vipers.
So we have a very interesting observation here ==> if at all there were more than one cobra in the box, there would have been at least one random scenario when both the picked up snakes would be cobras. But as it is given in the first statement, no matter how you pick two snakes, maximum number of Cobras can always only be 1. This clearly indicates that, the maximum possible number of Cobras in the box is 1. And it has been given in the question stem that the minimum number of cobras is 1. So when we know that the maximum and minimum number of Cobras in the box is 1, it is clear that the number of Cobras in the box is 1.
Hence this option is sufficient.
The second option gives us the total number of snakes. It is definitely not possible to find a number of Cobras from this number. Hence this option is insufficient. this explanation was useful and well explained, thank you for going beyond reiterating the question stem.



Current Student
Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 5
Location: India
GPA: 2.5
WE: Consulting (Consulting)

Re M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
28 Jun 2017, 01:09
I think this is a highquality question and I agree with explanation.



Intern
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 34

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
29 Jun 2017, 04:26
Hi Bunnel, Please help me understand the flaw in my logic, I understand that from the 1st question the number of snakes in the box can be ONLY 2, that's the only way to have 1 viper and 1 cobra, however, I fail to understand that why anybody hasn't considered any other snake than viper or cobra. Example : If I have a viper, cobra and black mamba  Using statement 1 I pick 2 snakes and I draw a viper and black mamba, the 1st statement is satisfied, however, it does not help me get the number of cobras. I have gone through the OG problems and in some problems the OE does mention content, which is not stated in the question. Could you please help ??



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59725

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
29 Jun 2017, 04:34
anuj11 wrote: Hi Bunnel, Please help me understand the flaw in my logic, I understand that from the 1st question the number of snakes in the box can be ONLY 2, that's the only way to have 1 viper and 1 cobra, however, I fail to understand that why anybody hasn't considered any other snake than viper or cobra. Example : If I have a viper, cobra and black mamba  Using statement 1 I pick 2 snakes and I draw a viper and black mamba, the 1st statement is satisfied, however, it does not help me get the number of cobras. I have gone through the OG problems and in some problems the OE does mention content, which is not stated in the question. Could you please help ?? 1. It's not necessary the box to have 1 viper and 1 cobra. The box can have 1 cobra and any number of vipers more than or equal to 1. The solution even gives an example: 1 cobra and 1 viper or 1 cobra and 99 vipers. 2. About some other types of snakes. This is also addressed in the thread. (1) says: From any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper. There cannot be any other type of snake in the box because we know that there is at least one viper and at least one cobra and if there is some other type snake there then we can choose cobra and that snake and the condition will be violated.
_________________



SVP
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 2345

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Jun 2017, 02:10
Bunuel wrote: Official Solution:
This is a hard question that challenges testtaker's logic. It is simple once you understand it but hard if you have never solved it. If you made a mistake on this question, make sure you understand the logic so you can be armed with this new tool for the real test. (1) Statement 1 tells us that from any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper. This does not mean that there are 2 snakes in the box or that there is only 1 viper. Instead, it indicates that at most, there is 1 cobra. This may mean 1 cobra and 1 viper or 1 cobra and 99 vipers. Make sure you understand this distinction. S1 tells us that there is only 1 cobra in the box, which is sufficient. (2) The total number of snakes Pandora's box is 99. Clearly insufficient.
Answer: A Dear BunuelI went along the thread but I could not understand something about fact 1. If I use info in Fact 2 in Fact 1, it says 'at least 1 Viber' and throw them away. It means I can grab another 2 Vibers and throw them away. I can repeat attempts and finally I will get 1 V &1 C. Is that logic ok?



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59725

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Jun 2017, 02:19
Mo2men wrote: Bunuel wrote: Official Solution:
This is a hard question that challenges testtaker's logic. It is simple once you understand it but hard if you have never solved it. If you made a mistake on this question, make sure you understand the logic so you can be armed with this new tool for the real test. (1) Statement 1 tells us that from any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper. This does not mean that there are 2 snakes in the box or that there is only 1 viper. Instead, it indicates that at most, there is 1 cobra. This may mean 1 cobra and 1 viper or 1 cobra and 99 vipers. Make sure you understand this distinction. S1 tells us that there is only 1 cobra in the box, which is sufficient. (2) The total number of snakes Pandora's box is 99. Clearly insufficient.
Answer: A Dear BunuelI went along the thread but I could not understand something about fact 1. If I use info in Fact 2 in Fact 1, it says 'at least 1 Viber' and throw them away. It means I can grab another 2 Vibers and throw them away. I can repeat attempts and finally I will get 1 V &1 C. Is that logic ok? Sorry but I cannot understand at all what you mean. Do you mean statement 1 and 2 by fact 1 and 2? What do you mean throw away?
_________________



SVP
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 2345

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Jun 2017, 02:36
Bunuel wrote: Mo2men wrote: Bunuel wrote: Official Solution:
This is a hard question that challenges testtaker's logic. It is simple once you understand it but hard if you have never solved it. If you made a mistake on this question, make sure you understand the logic so you can be armed with this new tool for the real test. (1) Statement 1 tells us that from any two snakes from Pandora's box at least one is a viper. This does not mean that there are 2 snakes in the box or that there is only 1 viper. Instead, it indicates that at most, there is 1 cobra. This may mean 1 cobra and 1 viper or 1 cobra and 99 vipers. Make sure you understand this distinction. S1 tells us that there is only 1 cobra in the box, which is sufficient. (2) The total number of snakes Pandora's box is 99. Clearly insufficient.
Answer: A Dear BunuelI went along the thread but I could not understand something about fact 1. If I use info in Fact 2 in Fact 1, it says 'at least 1 Viber' and throw them away. It means I can grab another 2 Vibers and throw them away. I can repeat attempts and finally I will get 1 V &1 C. Is that logic ok? Sorry but I cannot understand at all what you mean. Do you mean statement 1 and 2 by fact 1 and 2? What do you mean throw away? I will try to simplify what I mean. Does Statement 1 mean that in each time in I grab ANY two snakes, those snakes MUST be 1 V and 1 C. Or Could it be 2 Vibers? My understanding: I used imaginary situation that I have box with 99 snakes. Each time I grab two snakes it might be (2 V) or (1 V and 1 C). Suppose we have 4 snakes in the box. I can grab first 2 as Viper and keep them aside. In the second 2 snakes MUST be 1 V and 1 C. Suppose I have 5 snakes. I cab grab in first 2 attempts 2 V snakes and keep them aside. So the last snake MUST be Cobra. P.S. The term 'throw away' is mean to keep them aside before doing second attempt. I hop I was clear.



Math Expert
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 59725

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Jun 2017, 02:42
Mo2men wrote: I will try to simplify what I mean.
Does Statement 1 mean that in each time in I grab ANY two snakes, those snakes MUST be 1 V and 1 C. Or Could it be 2 Vibers?
My understanding:
I used imaginary situation that I have box with 99 snakes. Each time I grab two snakes it might be (2 V) or (1 V and 1 C). Suppose we have 4 snakes in the box. I can grab first 2 as Viper and keep them aside. In the second 2 snakes MUST be 1 V and 1 C.
Suppose I have 5 snakes. I cab grab in first 2 attempts 2 V snakes and keep them aside. So the last snake MUST be Cobra.
P.S. The term 'throw away' is mean to keep them aside before doing second attempt.
I hop I was clear.
The first statement does not mean that you are taking the snakes and throwing them away. It means that out of all possible cases to pick two snakes out of the box there will be at least one viper. So, no matter which two snakes you pick you can get either two vipers or one viper and one cobra.
_________________



SVP
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 2345

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
30 Jun 2017, 02:48
Bunuel wrote: Mo2men wrote: I will try to simplify what I mean.
Does Statement 1 mean that in each time in I grab ANY two snakes, those snakes MUST be 1 V and 1 C. Or Could it be 2 Vibers?
My understanding:
I used imaginary situation that I have box with 99 snakes. Each time I grab two snakes it might be (2 V) or (1 V and 1 C). Suppose we have 4 snakes in the box. I can grab first 2 as Viper and keep them aside. In the second 2 snakes MUST be 1 V and 1 C.
Suppose I have 5 snakes. I cab grab in first 2 attempts 2 V snakes and keep them aside. So the last snake MUST be Cobra.
P.S. The term 'throw away' is mean to keep them aside before doing second attempt.
I hop I was clear.
The first statement does not mean that you are taking the snakes and throwing them away. It means that out of all possible cases to pick two snakes out of the box there will be at least one viper. So, no matter which two snakes you pick you can get either two vipers or one viper and one cobra. Thanks for your answer



Intern
Joined: 08 Jun 2017
Posts: 4

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
02 Jul 2017, 16:15
What if there are other snakes in the box, The question doesn't mention Viper and Cobra are the only 2 kinds of snakes. For any 2 snakes, if you have a Viper, couldn't that mean {Viper, Rattle Snake} as well?



SVP
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 2345

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
02 Jul 2017, 16:37
bhargavsrini wrote: What if there are other snakes in the box, The question doesn't mention Viper and Cobra are the only 2 kinds of snakes. For any 2 snakes, if you have a Viper, couldn't that mean {Viper, Rattle Snake} as well? I saw the same question answered by Bunuel in page 2 or 3. good luck



Intern
Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 7

Re: M0718
[#permalink]
Show Tags
11 Jul 2017, 14:33
josegf1987 wrote: At least one is a Viper > Couldn't there be two vipers  and therefore 0 cobras  and invalidate statement 1? Thanks. Any answer to this? Wondering the same thing here! Thanks







Go to page
Previous
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Next
[ 129 posts ]



