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Marcus Junius Brutus (85 42 BCE) became friends with Julius

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Marcus Junius Brutus (85 42 BCE) became friends with Julius  [#permalink]

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New post 06 May 2013, 12:19
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4
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A
B
C
D
E

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Marcus Junius Brutus (85 – 42 BCE) became friends with Julius Caesar, but he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell according to the tides of various interpretations — as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare.
(A) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell
(B) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rising and falling
(C) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rose and fell
(D) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rising and falling
(E) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell


For a full discussion of parallelism and it's pitfalls, as well as the solution to this question, see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/parallelis ... orrection/

Experts, anything else you would like to add about typical parallelism traps on the GMAT SC?

Mike :-)

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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus became friends with Julius Caesar  [#permalink]

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New post 07 May 2013, 07:40
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The text talks of some rise and fall in subsequent centuries. A person who lived in BC era could not have risen and fallen in Shakespeare’s or Dante’s era. Only his reputation could have. So, only choices C and D survive. D is a fragment; C is the correct choice. Out of curiosity,where is the play of parallelism in this ?
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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus became friends with Julius Caesar  [#permalink]

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New post 07 May 2013, 09:02
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daagh wrote:
The text talks of some rise and fall in subsequent centuries. A person who lived in BC era could not have risen and fallen in Shakespeare’s or Dante’s era. Only his reputation could have. So, only choices C and D survive. D is a fragment; C is the correct choice. Out of curiosity,where is the play of parallelism in this ?

Among other things, one of the traps is what I call "false parallelism" --- that is, folks mechanically putting the verbs (became, participated, rose and fell) in strict grammatical parallelism without considering logically, as you did, that they must have different subjects and therefore cannot be in parallel. It's a trap for folks who think of parallelism as only a grammatical construction, rather than a logical construction as well. Obviously, you are already quite adept at seeing the logical relationships, so this trap is not relevant to someone operating at your level.
Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus became friends with Julius Caesar  [#permalink]

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New post 10 May 2013, 15:29
mikemcgarry wrote:
Marcus Junius Brutus (85 – 42 BCE) became friends with Julius Caesar, but he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell according to the tides of various interpretations — as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare.
(A) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell
(B) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rising and falling
(C) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rose and fell
(D) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rising and falling
(E) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell


For a full discussion of parallelism and it's pitfalls, as well as the solution to this question, see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/parallelis ... orrection/

Experts, anything else you would like to add about typical parallelism traps on the GMAT SC?

Mike :-)



I have a couple of discussion points about this question.
1. What does "as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare" modify? I assume that it is supposed to modify "Marcus Junius Brutus. But, it's so far away from "Marcus Junius Brutus".
2. Although, in some cases, a comma can be used to indicate logical separation or to emphasize a phrase, without such reasons, it should not be used to separate two non-independent clauses without a reason. What purpose does the comma after "with Julius Caesar" serve?
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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus became friends with Julius Caesar  [#permalink]

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New post 11 May 2013, 01:46
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mikemcgarry wrote:
Marcus Junius Brutus (85 – 42 BCE) became friends with Julius Caesar, but he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell according to the tides of various interpretations — as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare.
(A) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell
(B) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rising and falling
(C) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rose and fell
(D) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rising and falling
(E) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell


For a full discussion of parallelism and it's pitfalls, as well as the solution to this question, see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/parallelis ... orrection/

Experts, anything else you would like to add about typical parallelism traps on the GMAT SC?

Mike :-)



Ok, I will give a shot..

Clause 1- Marcus Junius Brutus (85 – 42 BCE)became friends with Julius Caesar this is an independent clause with markus as a subject and became as a verb, julias is the object.

Clause 2- he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell according to the tides of various interpretations. ----> the use of "he" is ambiguous here, although the original questions uses he to refer to markus, but its still ambiguous for eg consider the construction, "I became friends with mary, but she betrayed me". In this construction "she" reflects to mary. similarly he in the sentence can reflect to julius too.

Quote:
2. Although, in some cases, a comma can be used to indicate logical separation or to emphasize a phrase, without such reasons, it should not be used to separate two non-independent clauses without a reason. What purpose does the comma after "with Julius Caesar" serve?


now replying to the above poster. comma is used after julias to separate the clause 1(independent clause) with clause 2(dependent clause) which is perfectly grammatical.

Quote:
I have a couple of discussion points about this question.
1. What does "as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare" modify? I assume that it is supposed to modify "Marcus Junius Brutus. But, it's so far away from "Marcus Junius Brutus".


modifier- as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare. again in response to above poster, this is the clause modifying the "marcus" in the original sentence as the clause 2 begins with "he" who points back to marcus and the modifier in this instance modifies "he"
now another problem is "he"(marcus) cannot fall and rise in subsequent century. this is nonsensical. therefore we need something like his "reputation" to fall and rise which is perfectly fine.

due to above reason we can straight away eliminate A and B and E, as we need "reputation" here to fall and rise. between C and D. D uses "his reputation rising and falling" incorrectly. so C is the clear winner here.

hope this helps:)
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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus became friends with Julius Caesar  [#permalink]

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New post 13 May 2013, 09:25
honggil wrote:
mikemcgarry wrote:
Marcus Junius Brutus (85 – 42 BCE) became friends with Julius Caesar, but he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell according to the tides of various interpretations — as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare.
(A) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell
(B) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rising and falling
(C) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rose and fell
(D) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rising and falling
(E) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell



I have a couple of discussion points about this question.
1. What does "as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare" modify? I assume that it is supposed to modify "Marcus Junius Brutus. But, it's so far away from "Marcus Junius Brutus".
2. Although, in some cases, a comma can be used to indicate logical separation or to emphasize a phrase, without such reasons, it should not be used to separate two non-independent clauses without a reason. What purpose does the comma after "with Julius Caesar" serve?

Dear honggil
Well, nikhil007 already handled these questions reasonably well, but I'll just add my 2¢ as well.

1) The two objects of the "as" preposition directly modify the word "interpretations" ----- a longer version would be ".... rose and fell according to the tides of various interpretations — an interpretation as a treacherous villain in Dante and an interpretation as noble hero in Shakespeare." Yes, ultimately, we are talking about interpretations of the subject, Brutus --- that's what gives the sentence rhetorical unity --- but at the level of grammatical modification, the "as" refers to the word "interpretations", to which it is immediately adjacent.

2) The comma after "Julius Caesar", along with the conjunction "but", separates to independent clauses. The structure [independent clause][comma][conjunction][independent clause] is 100% standard and perfectly acceptable.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus (85 42 BCE) became friends with Julius  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Oct 2013, 08:48
mikemcgarry wrote:
Marcus Junius Brutus (85 – 42 BCE) became friends with Julius Caesar, but he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell according to the tides of various interpretations — as a treacherous villain in Dante and noble hero in Shakespeare.
(A) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell
(B) he participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rising and falling
(C) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rose and fell
(D) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries his reputation rising and falling
(E) participated in the conspiracy that assassinated Caesar, and in subsequent centuries rose and fell


For a full discussion of parallelism and it's pitfalls, as well as the solution to this question, see:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/parallelis ... orrection/

Experts, anything else you would like to add about typical parallelism traps on the GMAT SC?

Mike :-)


His reputation rose and fell (C) is the correct answer. That's all you need to look at.
Guys, remember beginnings and ending of each answer choice are KEY. Especially, when you have the off-phrase right after the underlined portion

Hope it helps, Thanks Mike. Nice Q
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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus (85 42 BCE) became friends with Julius  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Aug 2018, 01:41
This sentence has three elements. The first two can and should be in parallel — this means a single subject, Brutus. Including the pronoun “he” after the “but” makes the sentence longer, clunkier — repeating the subject for verbs in parallel is unnecessary. That’s the problem with (A) & (B).

The third element, though, cannot be in parallel. Choice (E) is an incorrect choice for folks who are thinking too mechanically about parallelism, without thinking about the logic. This is the trap of false parallelism. It’s not Brutus, the person, who rises and falls — rather, it’s his reputation. We can put the verbs “became” and “participated” in parallel after a single subject, but the third element demands a new subject: “his reputation”, as in (C) or (D). Choice (D) doesn’t have a full independent clause following the word, so this is incorrect. The only possible answer is (C).
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Re: Marcus Junius Brutus (85 42 BCE) became friends with Julius &nbs [#permalink] 22 Aug 2018, 01:41
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