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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2013, 22:33
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Hi Punyata
Welcome to gmat club :) I'm glad to help.

ANALYZE THE STIMULUS:

Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates [potential candidates] to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.
Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges [current members] teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

ANALYZE EACH ANSWER:

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
Correct. Mel talks about potential candidates, however Pat talks about current members

B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
Wrong. The argument does NOT talk about the cause of a change (the legislature’s move to raise the salary).

C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
Wrong. Pat just says the ban will have little or no negative effect. He does NOT talk anything about positive effect.

D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
Wrong. TEMPTING but wrong. Pat denies Mel’s claim WITH evidence in support. However, his evidence has problem itself.

E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
Wrong. TEMPTING but wrong. Pat said the change does NOT hurt (will have little or no negative effect) the current member. He did NOT say the change BENEFITS the current member. These logics are totally different..
For example: The new shopping outlet does not have negative effect to shopping malls in downtown. ==> It does not mean the new shopping outlet has positive effect to shopping malls in downtown.

TAKE AWAY:
Be aware of reverse logics
A does NOT hurt B ==> does not mean A supports B
A does NOT support B ==> does not mean A hurts B


Hope it helps.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2013, 21:14
Yep its A. Tricky question though.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2014, 14:54
JCLEONES wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

Looking at options A and C
Though i agree withexplanation given by d3thknell that C" ASSUMES that Pat is right when he talks about "absence of negative effects",when it is clear that new rule DOES have negative effects(ie new rule isnt taking into consideration the potential members,who might have problem with 2nd part of new rule,which discourages them from joining the profession).
But I dont completely agree with Choice A too.. choice "A" mentions "By Providing Evidence"..But there is no evidence mentioned. Can someone please clarify?
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2014, 20:16
I don't understand why the OA is A either.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 13 Dec 2014, 11:22
The answer to this question will come when we asses how Pat gave response to Mei.
Mei says that best candidates will still not be attracted some benefits have been removed that have been compensated by an increase in salary but this will have little incentive for able candidates to join now.
Pat replies that the salary increase does improve the situation as few judges give lectures.
Pat actually says that the increase in salary will attract candidates ( but he does not talk about the whether able candidates will still be attracted or not).


A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
-- Correct for the reason stated above.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
-- There is no cause and affect in this argument.
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects.
-- Out of scope.
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
-- Out of scope.
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
-- This is actually the opposite of how Pat replied.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 13 Dec 2014, 11:23
The answer to this question will come when we asses how Pat gave response to Mei.
Mei says that best candidates will still not be attracted some benefits have been removed that have been compensated by an increase in salary but this will have little incentive for able candidates to join now.
Pat replies that the salary increase does improve the situation as few judges give lectures.
Pat actually says that the increase in salary will attract candidates ( but he does not talk about the whether able candidates will still be attracted or not).


A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
-- Correct for the reason stated above.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
-- There is no cause and affect in this argument.
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects.
-- Out of scope.
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
-- Out of scope.
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
-- This is actually the opposite of how Pat replied.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jan 2016, 03:24
zaarathelab wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.


A : Correct . Pat's response that very few judges teach is based on the current lot of judges. This is the very thing that Mel is advocating to change, since, they the current lot is inefficient.
B : Incorrect. Inability of judges to lecture or teach is not the basis of this change.
C : Incorrect. Pat does not give any evidence of positive effect.
D : Incorrect. Pat does not deny Mel's claim, he simply says the ban is of liitle or no consequence.
E : Incorrect . No talk of benefit to every member due to the change.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 24 Jul 2016, 01:45
Very nice question! Mel says that some changes will fail to increase the attractiveness of the job for potential employees. Pat says, that the ban has no effect on current employees. So the answer is A.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jul 2016, 09:21
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.

In order to answer such Questions look for the unstated assumption.

M : Premise 1 : salary not enough.
Premise 2 : salary increased but judges not allowed to earn from teaching assignments.
Conclusion : Income still not enough
Assumption : because earlier there were no restrictions on earning from teaching assignments but now there is

Example : Earlier avg judge salary 100k
teaching assignments etc : avg pay : 20k
avg total income : 120k

Now judges avg salary : 110k
other income from teaching assignments etc : 0
Total avg= 110k

P : Premise : Most judges currently dont take extra teaching assignments/lectures. So little -ve effect or no -ve effect
Conclusion : salary enough after increase
Assumption : No option in the future to earn more from teaching assignments (even required by the judges). Current solution not considering the future judges and their potential need to earn more


A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
potential members and current members, what the differnce ? P talks about most current judges (Not good enough(
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
Not relevant
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
But pat does point out the -ve effects, he just says that little or no impact due to it
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
P does put evidence forth "most judges dont take lectures"
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
Bingo!! exactly our assumption, hence our answer

BTW i got it wrong in my test, but only cuz i was running out time. I doubt this is 700 level Q
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 15 Sep 2016, 09:49
was really drawn towards E but A is a better answer as per the statements
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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 18 Jul 2017, 11:14
A- attempts to assess how a certain change ( ban on income through lectures and assignments)will affect potential members(new judges) of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.(current judges).
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jul 2017, 23:41
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 15 Dec 2017, 07:50
Why not C? It clearly states the absence of a negative effect and uses this to evaluate an improvement. That's clearly a wrong assumption to make, therefore the correct answer should be C.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2017, 19:18
jtomas01 wrote:
Why not C? It clearly states the absence of a negative effect and uses this to evaluate an improvement. That's clearly a wrong assumption to make, therefore the correct answer should be C.

Both Mel and Pat would agree that raising the salary would be a good thing if there were no ban. The disagreement is over whether raising the salary would STILL be a good thing IF it is coupled with a ban.

Even Mel fails to address other possible negative effects of raising the salary and implementing the ban. Mel implies that raising the salary WOULD have a positive effect if it weren't for the ban. Pat does not need to argue that there are NO negative effects (i.e. an "absence of negative effects"). Instead, Pat just needs to address the SINGLE negative effect described by Mel.

If Pat had said, "No, raising the salary and implementing the ban will improve the situation because doing so has no negative effects", then choice (C) would be more accurate. Instead, Pat specifically addresses the potential negative effect described by Mel. How does Pat do this? Pat attempts to assess how the salary increase and ban will affect potential judges by providing evidence about the effect on current judges.

This is exactly what choice (A) says, so (A) is a better answer.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 02 Feb 2018, 00:26
zaarathelab wrote:
why not C?


C is not ok in the question. Surely, both you and I must agree that B,D,E are out of scope.
C is not ok b/c the argument never talks about positive effects or name any negative effects. Meanwhile, A still makes most sense b/c the second person tries to argue that the plan will work based on the current situation.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low   [#permalink] 02 Feb 2018, 00:26

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