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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jan 2010, 08:17
it is E,WHAT IS OA

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jan 2010, 09:38
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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has
done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with
a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.CORRECT. Usage of WILL in the last sentence
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that changeINCORRECT
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effectsPat says that the ban will have little OR no negative effectsTherefore, he does not entirely rule out the effects (negative or other). Just points to the gravity of the effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denialINCORRECT
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.There is no connection between delivering lectures and ability of the judges

I initially picked C. But OA given is A and hence I formulated the above reasoning

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jan 2010, 22:29
zaarathelab wrote:
why not C?

In C, pat doesnt say that there is positive effect (there is little or no negative
effect)
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jan 2010, 22:36
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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has
done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with
a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

Would go with A.... as the same is best option. Pat does give his analysis on checking the current members of the group being discussed. He doesn't take into account the future aspect of it... What if more judges begin to teach!!!

E was a close contender but the wording talks about most able members.... this implies that judges who do not teach are most able and hence this is incorrect.

Hence A should be correct...
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jan 2010, 02:59
zaarathelab wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has
done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with
a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.


I picked C ..but confused after reading Points in favor of A..
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 28 Jan 2010, 23:35
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Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 21 Apr 2011, 11:35
What's wrong with C?

C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect (the raise in salary really does improve the situation) merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects (the ban will have little or no negative effect).

Please thoughts on that.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 22 Apr 2011, 00:47
the new legislature move proposes increasing the salary of judges(positive move) and also banning them from receiving money from lectures/teachings(negative move).

Pat believes their since their are very few judges existing judges who give lectures,the effect of -ve move is almost neglible.
this reasoning is flawed because it is taking into account only the existing group and not the prospective judges.
option A addresses this point

while option C says that Pat's reasoning is flawed because he "attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects"
"C" ASSUMES that Pat is right when he talks about "absence of negative effects",when it is clear that new rule DOES have negative effects(ie new rule isnt taking into consideration the potential members,who might have problem with 2nd part of new rule,which discourages them from joining the profession).

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 30 Apr 2011, 01:29
attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members.

weird logic : what if more judges begin to teach... what if donkeys become horses.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 01 May 2011, 12:21
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A

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2011, 21:32
Definitely A.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 02 May 2011, 23:15
classic group question. A comparison between two groups is what is made by P.
E.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 15 Jul 2013, 12:44
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to attract the best candidates to the job - so we(well, Mel, but it is good to be sympathetic to the argument) are looking for what is favored by potential candidates and do not care about what current members do.

And Pat simply talks about current judges.

So, reading through choices was a breeze and I immediately chose A.

But I admit this problem is bit tricky. I tutor GMAT and two of my brighter students who recently tried this problem got it wrong. So, let me illustrate a fail-safe elimination based approach if one missed this critical fact during the first reading that the argument is about future candidates. Let's say we are simply looking for why raise in salary cant compensate ban on teaching although few judges teach.

A. the word 'potential' should make us think that we missed something. Good if you see connection. But if you don't, at least the second half of choice is spot on ie. Pat does provide evidence about effect on current members. So, don't eliminate even if your eyes don't light up

B, D - clearly wrong.

C - tempting choice..come back to it.
E - doesn't have much to say. increase in salary benefits all members and nothing being said about 'most able' members - so kinda illogical.

Reviewing choices C and A, Pat does admit to negative effects and does not deny them. So, C is wrong.

But, to be sure of the answer, at least at this stage of carefully re-reading the choice and perhaps glancing at the argument again, the word 'potential' should click.

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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2013, 03:40
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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.
Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.




why not E as answer?

Last edited by pqhai on 24 Aug 2013, 21:10, edited 2 times in total.
Rename the topic.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2013, 21:33
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Hi Punyata
Welcome to gmat club :) I'm glad to help.

ANALYZE THE STIMULUS:

Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates [potential candidates] to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.
Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges [current members] teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

ANALYZE EACH ANSWER:

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
Correct. Mel talks about potential candidates, however Pat talks about current members

B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
Wrong. The argument does NOT talk about the cause of a change (the legislature’s move to raise the salary).

C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
Wrong. Pat just says the ban will have little or no negative effect. He does NOT talk anything about positive effect.

D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
Wrong. TEMPTING but wrong. Pat denies Mel’s claim WITH evidence in support. However, his evidence has problem itself.

E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
Wrong. TEMPTING but wrong. Pat said the change does NOT hurt (will have little or no negative effect) the current member. He did NOT say the change BENEFITS the current member. These logics are totally different..
For example: The new shopping outlet does not have negative effect to shopping malls in downtown. ==> It does not mean the new shopping outlet has positive effect to shopping malls in downtown.

TAKE AWAY:
Be aware of reverse logics
A does NOT hurt B ==> does not mean A supports B
A does NOT support B ==> does not mean A hurts B


Hope it helps.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 05 Dec 2013, 20:14
Yep its A. Tricky question though.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2014, 13:54
JCLEONES wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

Looking at options A and C
Though i agree withexplanation given by d3thknell that C" ASSUMES that Pat is right when he talks about "absence of negative effects",when it is clear that new rule DOES have negative effects(ie new rule isnt taking into consideration the potential members,who might have problem with 2nd part of new rule,which discourages them from joining the profession).
But I dont completely agree with Choice A too.. choice "A" mentions "By Providing Evidence"..But there is no evidence mentioned. Can someone please clarify?

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 28 May 2014, 19:16
I don't understand why the OA is A either.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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New post 13 Dec 2014, 10:22
The answer to this question will come when we asses how Pat gave response to Mei.
Mei says that best candidates will still not be attracted some benefits have been removed that have been compensated by an increase in salary but this will have little incentive for able candidates to join now.
Pat replies that the salary increase does improve the situation as few judges give lectures.
Pat actually says that the increase in salary will attract candidates ( but he does not talk about the whether able candidates will still be attracted or not).


A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
-- Correct for the reason stated above.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
-- There is no cause and affect in this argument.
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects.
-- Out of scope.
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
-- Out of scope.
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
-- This is actually the opposite of how Pat replied.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low   [#permalink] 13 Dec 2014, 10:22

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