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# Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low

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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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14 Jan 2008, 12:32
8
KUDOS
25
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00:00

Difficulty:

75% (hard)

Question Stats:

50% (01:04) correct 50% (01:13) wrong based on 1053 sessions

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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

Last edited by JarvisR on 26 Aug 2015, 04:13, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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24 Aug 2013, 22:33
14
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Hi Punyata
Welcome to gmat club I'm glad to help.

ANALYZE THE STIMULUS:

Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates [potential candidates] to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.
Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges [current members] teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
Correct. Mel talks about potential candidates, however Pat talks about current members

B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
Wrong. The argument does NOT talk about the cause of a change (the legislature’s move to raise the salary).

C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
Wrong. Pat just says the ban will have little or no negative effect. He does NOT talk anything about positive effect.

D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
Wrong. TEMPTING but wrong. Pat denies Mel’s claim WITH evidence in support. However, his evidence has problem itself.

E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.
Wrong. TEMPTING but wrong. Pat said the change does NOT hurt (will have little or no negative effect) the current member. He did NOT say the change BENEFITS the current member. These logics are totally different..
For example: The new shopping outlet does not have negative effect to shopping malls in downtown. ==> It does not mean the new shopping outlet has positive effect to shopping malls in downtown.

TAKE AWAY:
Be aware of reverse logics
A does NOT hurt B ==> does not mean A supports B
A does NOT support B ==> does not mean A hurts B

Hope it helps.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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26 Jan 2010, 10:38
3
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1
This post was
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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has
done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with
a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.CORRECT. Usage of WILL in the last sentence
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that changeINCORRECT
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effectsPat says that the ban will have little OR no negative effectsTherefore, he does not entirely rule out the effects (negative or other). Just points to the gravity of the effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denialINCORRECT
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.There is no connection between delivering lectures and ability of the judges

I initially picked C. But OA given is A and hence I formulated the above reasoning

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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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25 Jan 2010, 02:00
2
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14
This post was
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Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group necessarily benefit all members of that group.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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27 Jan 2010, 23:36
2
KUDOS
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has
done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with
a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

Would go with A.... as the same is best option. Pat does give his analysis on checking the current members of the group being discussed. He doesn't take into account the future aspect of it... What if more judges begin to teach!!!

E was a close contender but the wording talks about most able members.... this implies that judges who do not teach are most able and hence this is incorrect.

Hence A should be correct...
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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15 Jul 2013, 13:44
2
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to attract the best candidates to the job - so we(well, Mel, but it is good to be sympathetic to the argument) are looking for what is favored by potential candidates and do not care about what current members do.

And Pat simply talks about current judges.

So, reading through choices was a breeze and I immediately chose A.

But I admit this problem is bit tricky. I tutor GMAT and two of my brighter students who recently tried this problem got it wrong. So, let me illustrate a fail-safe elimination based approach if one missed this critical fact during the first reading that the argument is about future candidates. Let's say we are simply looking for why raise in salary cant compensate ban on teaching although few judges teach.

A. the word 'potential' should make us think that we missed something. Good if you see connection. But if you don't, at least the second half of choice is spot on ie. Pat does provide evidence about effect on current members. So, don't eliminate even if your eyes don't light up

B, D - clearly wrong.

C - tempting choice..come back to it.
E - doesn't have much to say. increase in salary benefits all members and nothing being said about 'most able' members - so kinda illogical.

Reviewing choices C and A, Pat does admit to negative effects and does not deny them. So, C is wrong.

But, to be sure of the answer, at least at this stage of carefully re-reading the choice and perhaps glancing at the argument again, the word 'potential' should click.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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31 Dec 2015, 11:15
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Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2008, 01:24
1
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one more vote for B.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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23 Jan 2008, 05:56
1
KUDOS
[quote="JCLEONES"]Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
I think it's the best choice since the evaluation from Pat take into account only the current members. maybe the change will affect potential members. Is it OA?

B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
I have some doubts regarding this choice but I actually don't see cause-effect relationship in the Pat's thought
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects

the absence of negative effects is the core of the argument
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial

that's falseE. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group. false

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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29 Jan 2010, 00:35
1
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Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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14 Jan 2008, 13:30
JCLEONES wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

A by POE

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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14 Jan 2008, 14:50
I will go for Option B.
What is the OA?

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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14 Jan 2008, 22:20
ashkrs wrote:
JCLEONES wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

A by POE

A or C.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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15 Jan 2008, 09:31
I pick A. Good question

GMATBLACKBELT wrote:
ashkrs wrote:
JCLEONES wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

A by POE

A or C.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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15 Jan 2008, 10:47
I went with B.

What's the OA?

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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15 Jan 2008, 12:01
I´ll go with B

JCLEONES wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial
E. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group.

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Manager
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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16 Jan 2008, 08:07
One vote for A.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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23 Jan 2008, 18:42
I will mark it as "A". What is the OA?

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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23 Jan 2008, 20:01
I am going with A.

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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low [#permalink]

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23 Jan 2008, 20:28
marcodonzelli wrote:
JCLEONES wrote:
Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low to attract the best
Candidates to the job. The legislature’s move to raise the salary has done nothing to improve the situation, because it was coupled with a ban on receiving money for lectures and teaching engagements.

Pat: No, the raise in salary really does improve the situation. Since very few
judges teach or give lectures, the ban will have little or no negative
effect.

Pat’s response to Mel is inadequate in that it

A. attempts to assess how a certain change will affect potential members
of a group by providing evidence about its effect on the current members.
I think it's the best choice since the evaluation from Pat take into account only the current members. maybe the change will affect potential members. Is it OA?

B. mistakenly takes the cause of a certain change to be an effect of that change
I have some doubts regarding this choice but I actually don't see cause-effect relationship in the Pat's thought
C. attempts to argue that a certain change will have a positive effect merely
by pointing to the absence of negative effects

the absence of negative effects is the core of the argument
D. simply denies Mel’s claim without putting forward any evidence in support
of that denial

that's falseE. assumes that changes that benefit the most able members of a group
necessarily benefit all members of that group. false

Reversely, I think it is E.

Everybody chose A, for me, A is not correct because Pat did not say "how a certain change will affect...", only assumed that very few members of the group are affected by the change, it is necessary that the group also be affected.
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Re: Mel: The official salary for judges has always been too low   [#permalink] 23 Jan 2008, 20:28

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