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Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th

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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jun 2009, 00:35
We have to support the conclusion that Tip-Top's hot peppers make Monroe ill.
I guess there is some confusion between 'B' and 'C'.
I choose 'C' because:

(B) If, at his third meal at Tip-Top, Monroe had chosen to eat the baked chicken with hot peppers, he would have become ill after that meal.
Now, Monroe has never eaten baked chicken here before (at least not in these 3 meals), so we cannot say what caused the illness, whether it is the chicken (or any other food item eaten here), or the hot pepper.
But, in 'C'

(C) If the next time Monroe eats one of Tip-Top’s extra-large sausage pizzas he does not have a side order of hot peppers, he will not become ill after his meal.
Now, he has already had extra-large sausage pizza in his first meal (along with hot peppers), after which he became ill. 'C' says that this time if he has this pizza again, without hot pepper, he will not become ill. This statement clearly supports that nothing else, but hot pepper cause the illness.
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New post 29 Nov 2011, 13:52
Strangely the evidence and the conclusion support all the given options...The question however is how do we find which one is more strongly supported than the rest. Bummer!

I shall wait for further replies to this thread..
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Nov 2011, 14:09
I chose A because he thinks that even if he eats ALOT, he wont become ill as long as he his meals don't contain hot peppers

i dont think
B) because doesnt support anything
c)he didn't just ate hot sausage, he ate shrimps and other things
d)again he didn't eat just shrimps
e) OOS

any other suggestions are welcomed and helpful. thanks
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Nov 2011, 19:35
the "official" answer is.... "C". But that's not the point.
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New post 30 Nov 2011, 01:52
This is the situation here:
If he eats hot peppers he will get ill. The contrapositive of that is “If he did not get ill, then he did not eat hot peppers.
Let’s put it this way:

If X (hot peppers) then Y (get ill)
Or
If not Y then not X

A) If not X then not Y
B) If X then Y
C) If not X then not Y
D) Out of scope
C) Out of scope
From the above, only B can be the correct answer
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Nov 2011, 08:19
I think today I agree to "C" being the right answer. Simply because "A" and "B" are referencing a "third" cause. There is no knowledge if baked chicken ALONE causes sickness. As well as there is no knowledge about OTHER items from all-you-can-eat ALONE (without hot peppers). Who knows do they cause sickness or not.

That's why "C" is MOST supported. Because it references already known circumstances.
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Nov 2011, 18:05
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Hi guys,

To understand why C is the answer and not B, understand the scope of the conclusion. The conclusion says that the sole reason Monroe got sick in these three instances is due to hot peppers. The conclusion does not imply that Monroe will get sick whenever he eats hot peppers.

Here is a short video explaining the same.


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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Dec 2011, 00:16
tealover007
B does not refer to a third cause. It simply says that had he eaten baked chicken with hot peppers at his third meal (instead of the giant meatball sandwiches) he would have become ill (due to hot peppers).

egmat
Also, we can not say that If he does not eat hot peppers, he will not get ill as answer C suggests. this is logically incorrect

I searched for the OA for this question on google and I got B.
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Dec 2011, 17:11
Quote:
Khalid wrote: Also, we can not say that If he does not eat hot peppers, he will not get ill as answer C suggests. this is logically incorrect


Khalid, there is a lot of confusion about cause and effect and not cause and no effect rule. To keep things simple, lets confine our discussion to this question.

In this question, the conclusion says

Monroe concludes that it is solely due to Tip-Top's hot peppers that he became ill. Note the use of the word "solely". The conclusion states the only reason that Monroe became ill when she ate those 3 meals is because she ate hot peppers. Since the sole reason she became ill was due to hot peppers, it can be inferred that provided everything else remains same, Monroe will not get ill if she does not it hot peppers.

choice C reproduces one of the meals (extra-large sausage pizzas) without the side of hot peppers he should not become ill. Since the question stem asks you to assume that the conclusion and the evidence presented in the argument is true, I believe that the argument does provide very strong support for the same.

Had the conclusion not stated "solely" it would have been a different story. Let me know if you have any questions regarding this.
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2011, 05:05
(A) Monroe can eat any of Tip-Top's daily all-you-can-eat specials without becoming ill as long as the special does not include the hot peppers. => wrong, Monroe have poor appetite
(B) If, at his third meal at Tip-Top, Monroe had chosen to eat the baked chicken with hot peppers, he would have become ill after that meal. => not mention baked chicken. out of scope. Maybe have another cause for his ill. Ex: chicken flu.
(C) If the next time Monroe eats one of Tip-Top's extra-large sausage pizzas he does not have a side order of hot peppers, he will not become ill after this meal. => yes, in scope of sentence
(D) Before eating Tip-Top's fried shrimp with hot pepper special, Monroe had eaten fried shrimp without suffering any side effects. => same reason as B
(E) The only place Monroe has eaten hot peppers has been at Tip-Top. => too extreme.
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Dec 2011, 07:33
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egmat

The scope of the conclusion, as you said earlier, was about these three instances when he had hot peppers. so Monroe concludes that since hot pepper was the common thing between the meals, hot pepper made him ill. the question says "If both Monroe's conclusion and the evidence on which he bases it are correct". the conclusion was "hot peppers made him sick" and the evidence "hot peppers was the common thing between the meals". Notice that the conclusion and the evidence point out to events that happened in the past. Monroe did not conclude that hot peppers make him ill, he simply concluded that hot peppers made him ill. Answer B remains within this time frame (past events) but answer C talks about something in the future and so extreme

This question appeared on February 1995 LSAT. and according to it, the OA is B. I would love to know where tealover007 got the OA C from. This is a link to the question along with its OA http://acmepvtlimited.tripod.com/education43.htm
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 04 May 2012, 12:46
For the record, this is an official LSAT question. Below is a response I posted in another forum that I hope helps clarify some issues.
--------
I just want to add to this discussion the importance of understanding the differences between causality and conditional statements.

The conclusion, "Monroe concludes that it is solely due to Tip Top's hot peppers that he became ill" should not be confused as a conditional statement (solely being the same thing as only). Monroe is stating that it is a causal relationship and the question stem says we have to assume this is true. (you will diagram this causality as hot peppers --> illness) Therefore, to correctly answer a "must be true" question, we have to find an answer that shows this causality. Here are few factors that you have to keep in mind about causality in order to successfully show this relationship (this is explained in detail in powerscore's LR bible on page 200. I am reiterating their statements)

1) Temporal relationship: causal statements imply that one must happen first and the effect happens afterwards. conditional statements do not imply such a thing (another reason to not think like this is a conditional statement!)

2) Connection between events is different: a causal statement implies that the events are related, ie hot peppers made Monroe sick. X caused Y. X made Y happen. However, this is not necessarily the case for a conditional statement. The book provides the example, "Before the war can end, I must eat this ice cream cone." It is not the case that the war ending caused me to eat this ice cream cone, just that it has to occur.

In conclusion, although we see the flaw in Monroe's reasoning in saying that the hot peppers caused him to be sick and not an alternate cause, we have to assume his causal reasoning as true. Therefore, we need to find answers that reflect a causal relationship and NOT a conditional relationship.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 04 May 2012, 14:21
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the three meals he ate at the Tip-Top Restaurant, but, unfortunately, after each meal he became ill. The first time he ate an extra-large sausage pizza with a side order of hot pepper; the second time he took full advantage of the all-you-can-eat fried shrimp and hot peppers special; and the third time he had two of Tip-Top’s giant meatball sandwiches with hot peppers. Since the only food all three meals had in common was the hot peppers. Monroe concludes that it is solely due to Tip-Top’s hot peppers that he became ill.

If both Monroe’s conclusion and the evidence on which he bases it are correct, they would provide the strongest support for which one of the following? :?:

(A) Monroe can eat any of Tip-Top’s daily all-you-can-eat specials without becoming ill as long as the special does not include the hot peppers.
(B) If, at his third meal at Tip-Top, Monroe had chosen to eat the baked chicken with hot peppers, he would have become ill after that meal.
(C) If the next time Monroe eats one of Tip-Top’s extra-large sausage pizzas he does not have a side order of hot peppers, he will not become ill after his meal.
(D) Before eating Tip-Top’s fried shrimp with hot peppers special, Monroe had eaten fried shrimp without suffering any ill effects.
(E) The only place Monroe has eaten hot peppers has been at Tip-Top.


hello
my analysis is as followed
monroe conclusion it is solely due to Tip-Top’s hot peppers that he became ill
evidences 3 meals at the tips tops different foods only thing in common hot peper
after each meal he got sick


A strong support it show that the hot pepper is the critical factor
b slight support show that no matter the meal if it contains hotpepper he get sick
if P then Q
c NO p NOT Q and this is not valid
this is an hypothesis
d does not show anything neutral sowhat type as it does not state the presence of hot pepper
e weaken the conclusion

b is better because it shows a clear cause and effect relationship between having hotpepper and getting sick
while a give the ideas that that there can be something wrong with Tip-Top’s daily all-you-can-eat specials

hope this help

best regards
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New post 28 Apr 2017, 11:03
tuanquang269 wrote:
(A) Monroe can eat any of Tip-Top's daily all-you-can-eat specials without becoming ill as long as the special does not include the hot peppers. => wrong, Monroe have poor appetite
(B) If, at his third meal at Tip-Top, Monroe had chosen to eat the baked chicken with hot peppers, he would have become ill after that meal. => not mention baked chicken. out of scope. Maybe have another cause for his ill. Ex: chicken flu.
(C) If the next time Monroe eats one of Tip-Top's extra-large sausage pizzas he does not have a side order of hot peppers, he will not become ill after this meal. => yes, in scope of sentence
(D) Before eating Tip-Top's fried shrimp with hot pepper special, Monroe had eaten fried shrimp without suffering any side effects. => same reason as B
(E) The only place Monroe has eaten hot peppers has been at Tip-Top. => too extreme.




I have a point related to your reason behind option D

its not at all same as B ... In option B they are talking about future i.e its not sure that he will suffer any disease from chicken or not.. ..Nut on option D they have a proof that he had fried shrimp (WITHOUT PEPPER ) as its not mention in the second part of sentence that fried shrimp had pepper or not.

Which concludes that WHEN HE HAD SHRIMPS WITHOUT PEPPER HE DIDN'T SUFFERED ANY ISSUE and when he had hem WITH HOT PEPPERS. he became ill...





NOW CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME A SOLID REASON TO CANCEL OUT Option D? becoz i think its the answer
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Aug 2017, 12:21
answer should be B but according to egmat answer is C
Thank you for your time .
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Aug 2017, 23:53
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Hello Experts,

It would be great if you can share your analysis on this question? OA given is B but @e-gmat says it should be C

Thanks :-)
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Aug 2017, 04:26
If pepper causes illness it does not mean that no pepper causes no illness

so, A and C out

only B fits
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 31 Aug 2017, 05:42
Khalidb wrote:
This is the situation here:
If he eats hot peppers he will get ill. The contrapositive of that is “If he did not get ill, then he did not eat hot peppers.
Let’s put it this way:

If X (hot peppers) then Y (get ill)
Or
If not Y then not X

A) If not X then not Y
B) If X then Y
C) If not X then not Y
D) Out of scope
C) Out of scope
From the above, only B can be the correct answer


Khalidb nailed it imo. B is the answer
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2017, 00:54
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pikolo2510 wrote:
GMATNinja ChiranjeevSingh

Hello Experts,

It would be great if you can share your analysis on this question? OA given is B but @e-gmat says it should be C

Thanks :-)

Quote:
(C) If the next time Monroe eats one of Tip-Top's extra-large sausage pizzas he does not have a side order of hot peppers, he will not become ill after this meal.

Because we are told that Monroe's conclusion is correct, we know that it is solely due to Tip-Top's hot peppers that he became ill. Notice that the verb "became" is in the past tense. We know that the hot peppers made him ill during each of the three visits described in the passage. However, that does not prove that he will not become ill even if he doesn't eat hot peppers next time. Maybe next time he eats sausage pizza, the chef will accidentally under-cook the sausage and, as a result, Monroe will get a foodborne illness from the sausage.
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Re: Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the th  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Sep 2017, 20:12
priyankur_saha@ml.com wrote:
Monroe, despite his generally poor appetite, thoroughly enjoyed the three meals he ate at the Tip-Top Restaurant, but, unfortunately, after each meal he became ill. The first time he ate an extra-large sausage pizza with a side order of hot pepper; the second time he took full advantage of the all-you-can-eat fried shrimp and hot peppers special; and the third time he had two of Tip-Top’s giant meatball sandwiches with hot peppers. Since the only food all three meals had in common was the hot peppers. Monroe concludes that it is solely due to Tip-Top’s hot peppers that he became ill.

If both Monroe’s conclusion and the evidence on which he bases it are correct, they would provide the strongest support for which one of the following?

(A) Monroe can eat any of Tip-Top’s daily all-you-can-eat specials without becoming ill as long as the special does not include the hot peppers.

(B) If, at his third meal at Tip-Top, Monroe had chosen to eat the baked chicken with hot peppers, he would have become ill after that meal.

(C) If the next time Monroe eats one of Tip-Top’s extra-large sausage pizzas he does not have a side order of hot peppers, he will not become ill after his meal.

(D) Before eating Tip-Top’s fried shrimp with hot peppers special, Monroe had eaten fried shrimp without suffering any ill effects.

(E) The only place Monroe has eaten hot peppers has been at Tip-Top.

Source : PrepTest 14 - February 1995 LSAT


From PowerScore

Well, we know he ate three separate meals with hot peppers, and, importantly, "after each meal he became ill" (italics added for emphasis). Then, at the end, Monroe concludes that the peppers were the sole culprit.

The interesting thing is that we are told in the question stem that "both Monroe's conclusion and the evidence on which he bases it are correct," which means that we now have to accept that Monroe was right about the hot peppers being the sole cause of him becoming ill after the three meals in question.

(A): Yes, this is far too broad, and it also looks into possible future meals, which haven't been addressed. We don't know anything about the daily specials, and it is possible that some other element—one that Monroe has yet to encounter—might make him sick, or that at future meals different factors might be in play.

(B): "I eliminated B because it didn't account for the size of the food that Monroe was eating." — as you've probably figured out now, the fact that this didn't address the amount of food eaten isn't a problem (since we are ignoring that element per the question stem). Instead, because this answer specifies that Monroe would've eaten hot peppers with this meal (which was a substitute for one of the three meals we already know about, where the hot peppers were indeed what was making him sick), we can ascertain that he would have for sure become sick after this meal. Thus, this answer choice is strongly supported by the information in the stimulus, and is correct.

(C): This answer choice has some similarities to (A). First, this is a forward-looking answer that talks about the next time, and at that point things could be entirely different. What we know about is what happened at the three meals discussed in the stimulus, and what happens thereafter is not bound by the same rules or conclusions. By comparison, look at answer choice (B), which quite specifically substitutes the food used in one of the three named meals in the stimulus.

So, while we knwo that when Monroe ate hot peppers at those meals and that caused him to become sick, for a future meal we can't guarantee what will happen, or that some other factor won't cause him to be sick.

Answer : B
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