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Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass

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Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass surgery, a procedure widely prescribed for people with heart diseases, only 75 percent benefited from the surgery. Thus it appears that for one in four such patients, the doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense, were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Many of the patients who receive coronary bypass surgery are less than 55 years old.

B. Possible benefits of coronary bypass surgery include both relief from troubling symptoms and prolongation of life.

C. Most of the patients in the survey decided to undergo coronary bypass surgery because they were advised that the surgery would reduce their risk of future heart attacks.

D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

Originally posted by vineetgupta on 30 Jun 2007, 10:19.
Last edited by Vyshak on 13 Aug 2017, 06:39, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2007, 10:27
I would go with answer E here because in E it was clearly mentioned that doctors couldn't medically indistinguish between the patients who benifitted and patient who didn't benifit.

So doctors didn't recommend the patients to go for surgery for the sake of money.

What is OA?
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2007, 13:36
vineetgupta wrote:
Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass surgery—a procedure widely prescribed for people with heart disease—only 75 percent benefited from the surgery. Thus it appears that for one in four such patients, the doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense, were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Many of the patients who receive coronary bypass surgery are less than 55 years old.

B. Possible benefits of coronary bypass surgery include both relief from troubling symptoms and prolongation of life.

C. Most of the patients in the survey decided to undergo coronary bypass surgery because they were advised that the surgery would reduce their risk of future heart attacks.

D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

D or E...please explain


I would also go for E.

The argument says that : For the patients of 65+ old, only 75% benefited. Hence for 25% times, doctor did not gave them proper advice that surgery might not be beneficial to them.

E says that before surgery, the patients were in same medical condition. Hence if the surgery worked for 75% people, it should have worked for 25% also. This sentence properly undermines the argument that doctors gave wrong advice.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2007, 14:00
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vineetgupta wrote:
Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass surgery—a procedure widely prescribed for people with heart disease—only 75 percent benefited from the surgery. Thus it appears that for one in four such patients, the doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense, were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Many of the patients who receive coronary bypass surgery are less than 55 years old.

B. Possible benefits of coronary bypass surgery include both relief from troubling symptoms and prolongation of life.

C. Most of the patients in the survey decided to undergo coronary bypass surgery because they were advised that the surgery would reduce their risk of future heart attacks.

D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

D or E...please explain


Both D and E undermine the argument. But IMHO E states a stronger reason.
In D, doctors did their job of informing the patients.
IN E, doctors did not or could not have a self motive because the patients who could benefit and who could not benefit were medically indistinguishable
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jun 2007, 22:35
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goalsnr wrote:
vineetgupta wrote:
Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass surgery—a procedure widely prescribed for people with heart disease—only 75 percent benefited from the surgery. Thus it appears that for one in four such patients, the doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense, were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Many of the patients who receive coronary bypass surgery are less than 55 years old.

B. Possible benefits of coronary bypass surgery include both relief from troubling symptoms and prolongation of life.

C. Most of the patients in the survey decided to undergo coronary bypass surgery because they were advised that the surgery would reduce their risk of future heart attacks.

D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

D or E...please explain


Both D and E undermine the argument. But IMHO E states a stronger reason.
In D, doctors did their job of informing the patients.
IN E, doctors did not or could not have a self motive because the patients who could benefit and who could not benefit were medically indistinguishable


The flaw with D here is that the patients were fully informed but of what ..?? were they informed that surgery would beneficial to them ? But was the surgery needed for them ? Hence D does not do job properly or as better as E.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 29 May 2011, 22:53
Its a clean E here.Negating E clearly supports the statement.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Nov 2011, 06:55
Amit05 wrote:
goalsnr wrote:
vineetgupta wrote:
Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass surgery—a procedure widely prescribed for people with heart disease—only 75 percent benefited from the surgery. Thus it appears that for one in four such patients, the doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense, were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Many of the patients who receive coronary bypass surgery are less than 55 years old.

B. Possible benefits of coronary bypass surgery include both relief from troubling symptoms and prolongation of life.

C. Most of the patients in the survey decided to undergo coronary bypass surgery because they were advised that the surgery would reduce their risk of future heart attacks.

D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

D or E...please explain


Both D and E undermine the argument. But IMHO E states a stronger reason.
In D, doctors did their job of informing the patients.
IN E, doctors did not or could not have a self motive because the patients who could benefit and who could not benefit were medically indistinguishable


The flaw with D here is that the patients were fully informed but of what ..?? were they informed that surgery would beneficial to them ? But was the surgery needed for them ? Hence D does not do job properly or as better as E.


Marked D :( ...
But your explanation helped ... now I know why it is E ! thanks :)
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jan 2017, 20:59
I have been stuck upon between 2 options D & E.
But eventually I 've selected D.
My reasoning is:
In the text,the doctors are considered blameworthy since they are supposed to advice the particular mode of surgery for professional gain.Only the option D weakens the above supposition,roundly and squarely.Option D points a doubt that risk involved in this mode of surgery were fully explained to all the patients by the doctors.So, D is more appropriate ans than E.
The idea behind the term, 'medically indistinguishable' is a vague one.It covers a no of issues.Moreover, the option E fails to establish that the doctors concerned were not worthy of blame.So, this particular option simply does not fill the bill.
Why official ans is E.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jan 2017, 22:40
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soumya170293 wrote:
I have been stuck upon between 2 options D & E.
But eventually I 've selected D.
My reasoning is:
In the text,the doctors are considered blameworthy since they are supposed to advice the particular mode of surgery for professional gain.Only the option D weakens the above supposition,roundly and squarely.Option D points a doubt that risk involved in this mode of surgery were fully explained to all the patients by the doctors.So, D is more appropriate ans than E.
The idea behind the term, 'medically indistinguishable' is a vague one.It covers a no of issues.Moreover, the option E fails to establish that the doctors concerned were not worthy of blame.So, this particular option simply does not fill the bill.
Why official ans is E.


Choice D means that the patients were fully informed, but this information is irrelevant to the argument. This choice doesn't affect the argument that the doctors were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient.

In choice E, since we cant distinguish between patients who did benefit and patients who didn't, there is no reason to blame doctors.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Mar 2017, 21:33
+1 E.

The author voice his/her concern from the Doctor's perspective over the failure rate.Choice E exactly undermines that by saing Doctors can not dishtinguish between the petients.

Choice D,on the other hand,adresses the petient's point of view,which is irrevalent.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2017, 11:21
Choice D - Patients were aware of the consequences of the surgery before hand and still opted to undergo the operation -> Doctors less culpable.
Doctors' motive might have been practice/fee but ultimate decision making power was with the patients.

Choice E - Before surgery patients were medically indistinguishable but we do not know if doctors were forthright in conveying surgery associated risks to them -> Doctors may or may not be culpable.

Experts help plz.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2017, 13:40
Consider D. Assume that the patients were told about the risks but if the doctors could identify the ones who would not survive then the doctors would practice on these patients and still get a good success rate by operating on the ones they are sure to survive. This cannot weaken the argument. This thought leads us toward E.

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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Apr 2017, 18:19
For me, this just came down to "D" and "E". The other A/Cs I thought were clearly insuff.

Between "D" and "E", for me, it was the case of "which is the crappier answer"? This is where "D" won.

D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.
--> if all patients undergoing the surgery well fully informed of the risks, how does this impact bias? if any case, this is an OPPOSITE/STRENGTHENER. hear me out: if the doctors are telling each patient that there are risks, then how could there be bias? this leads me to believe there was no bias, everyone was treated the same.


E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.
--> on the other hand, if the patients could not be distinguished, how would the bias work? which groups of people would the doctors discriminate/hold bias against? this WEAKENS.

kudos if this helps :)
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Apr 2017, 20:11
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puto,
Quote:
Choice D - Patients were aware of the consequences of the surgery before hand and still opted to undergo the operation -> Doctors less culpable.
Doctors' motive might have been practice/fee but ultimate decision making power was with the patients.

Choice E - Before surgery patients were medically indistinguishable but we do not know if doctors were forthright in conveying surgery associated risks to them -> Doctors may or may not be culpable.

Let's start with the conclusion: "it appears that for one in four such patients, the doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense, were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient." This implies that the doctors knew that the surgery would probably not help those patients but advised them to undergo the surgery regardless (in order to practice their skills and collect the fee). Thus, the argument would be undermined by any evidence that the doctors thought that those patients were no less likely to benefit from surgery than the other 75% of patients.
Quote:
D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

Does D undermine the argument? Not necessarily... this does not tell us whether the doctors knew in advance that the group of 25% would probably not benefit from surgery. In fact, if the doctors informed those patients of the risks but failed to tell those patients that they would probably not be helped by the surgery, then this would in fact strengthen the argument.
Quote:
E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

If there is no way for the doctors to distinguish between the two groups, then they have no idea whether one group is more or less likely to benefit from the surgery. Since the argument rests on the assumption that the doctors knew that the surgery would probably not help those patients (the one in four who did not benefit), choice E undermines the argument.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 28 Apr 2017, 23:03
GMATNinjaTwo wrote:
puto,
Quote:
Choice D - Patients were aware of the consequences of the surgery before hand and still opted to undergo the operation -> Doctors less culpable.
Doctors' motive might have been practice/fee but ultimate decision making power was with the patients.

Choice E - Before surgery patients were medically indistinguishable but we do not know if doctors were forthright in conveying surgery associated risks to them -> Doctors may or may not be culpable.

Let's start with the conclusion: "it appears that for one in four such patients, the doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense, were more interested in an opportunity to practice their skills and in their fee than in helping the patient." This implies that the doctors knew that the surgery would probably not help those patients but advised them to undergo the surgery regardless (in order to practice their skills and collect the fee). Thus, the argument would be undermined by any evidence that the doctors thought that those patients were no less likely to benefit from surgery than the other 75% of patients.
Quote:
D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

Does D undermine the argument? Not necessarily... this does not tell us whether the doctors knew in advance that the group of 25% would probably not benefit from surgery. In fact, if the doctors informed those patients of the risks but failed to tell those patients that they would probably not be helped by the surgery, then this would in fact strengthen the argument.
Quote:
E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

If there is no way for the doctors to distinguish between the two groups, then they have no idea whether one group is more or less likely to benefit from the surgery. Since the argument rests on the assumption that the doctors knew that the surgery would probably not help those patients (the one in four who did not benefit), choice E undermines the argument.




D - > Specifically addresses the focus group [patients over 65 years] whereas E does not.

Also, argument says: "The doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense"->
Does this statement not imply that risk of 'not helping the patient' was informed to the patient !?

Option E -> Again this option talks about patients in general not about the group in contention.

Since there is no way for Doctors to medically distinguish they have more incentive to recommend surgery to patients as any complication arising later could be attributed to lack of sufficient information.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Apr 2017, 14:11
Quote:
D - > Specifically addresses the focus group [patients over 65 years] whereas E does not.

Also, argument says: "The doctors who advised them to undergo this surgery, with its attendant risks and expense"->
Does this statement not imply that risk of 'not helping the patient' was informed to the patient !?

Option E -> Again this option talks about patients in general not about the group in contention.

Since there is no way for Doctors to medically distinguish they have more incentive to recommend surgery to patients as any complication arising later could be attributed to lack of sufficient information.

The possibility that the surgery does not help the patient is not a risk. A risk is something that exposes the patient to danger or harm. Not being helped by the surgery isn't a positive outcome, but by itself this doesn't imply any danger to the patient. For example, imagine a new back surgery that is only 25% effective (ie only helps 25% of patients) but has absolutely no risks (no possible dangers); surely, most people with back pain would be willing to try it, even though the odds of success are low (there are no risks, so why not?).
Quote:
D. The patients over 65 years old who did not benefit from the coronary bypass surgery were as fully informed as those who did benefit from the surgery as to the risks of the surgery prior to undergoing it.

Choice D states that the patients in the focus group were AS FULLY INFORMED as the others. That means both groups understood the risks. But this does not rule out the possibility that the doctors KNEW that some of those patients were less likely to have successful outcomes and withheld that information from those patients.
Quote:
E. The patients who underwent coronary bypass surgery but who did not benefit from it were medically indistinguishable, prior to their surgery, from the patients who did benefit.

The argument accuses the doctors of recommending the surgery to those in the focus group despite knowing that the surgery was unlikely to help those patients. If the patients in the focus group were medically indistinguishable, there would be no way for the doctors to make that distinction (ie as far as the doctors knew, ALL patients recommended for surgery were equally likely to have successful results). Lets say that out of 100 patients, 75 had successful surgeries. If the doctors knew in advance that the other 25 were unlikely to have successful surgeries but still recommended the surgery, this would support the argument. But if all 100 were medically indistinguishable, the doctors cannot be guilty of the alleged behavior; perhaps the surgery simply has a 75% success rate and there is no way to know in advance who is more or less likely to have a successful outcome.
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Re: Of patients over 65 years old who survived coronary bypass  [#permalink]

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