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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
GMATNinja generis AjiteshArun

Can someone please tell the meaning when 'so as to' is used in (A). Everyone has commented on the idiom usage and that (A) is correct because the idiom is correct. My question is regarding the meaning.

Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

Does 'as to be' mean 'that they are' ? Doesn't 'as to be' give an 'intention' or sort of feeling that the economic shifts are he doer of this gradual shifts so as to indistinguishable ?

Will appreciate expert opinion on this.
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
Hi AjiteshArun GMATNinja
Quote:
Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

(A) so gradual as to be indistinguishable
(B) so gradual they can be indistinguishable
(C) so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished
(D) gradual enough not to be distinguishable
(E) gradual enough so that one cannot distinguish them



I have a meaning problem with this question,

Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

"A" seems to be saying that "Economic Shifts are trying to be indistinguishable from X", I think rather the sentence should state it as a fact that economic shifts are indistinguishable rather than show an intention to be indistinguishable.
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
Hi VeritasKarishma GMATNinja EducationAisle

A lot of explanations here mentioned option B is wrong for the reason that so X so Y is not correct idiom but option B does not contain second 'so', where is this second 'so' coming from? am I missing here anything?

Cause this is what option B says
Quote:
so gradual they can be indistinguishable
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
Expert Reply
RohitSaluja wrote:
Hi VeritasKarishma GMATNinja EducationAisle
Cause this is what option B says
Quote:
so gradual they can be indistinguishable

Interesting Rohit. I googled this question and some websites mention that following is what option B looks like:

Quote:
(B) so gradual so that they can be indistinguishable
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
EducationAisle wrote:
RohitSaluja wrote:
Hi VeritasKarishma GMATNinja EducationAisle
Cause this is what option B says
Quote:
so gradual they can be indistinguishable

Interesting Rohit. I googled this question and some websites mention that following is what option B looks like:

Quote:
(B) so gradual so that they can be indistinguishable


Hi EducationAisle, pleaser refer to the attached image, I have taken this from OG2020 edition, my question is why is B incorrect in this one?
Attachments

SC1.PNG
SC1.PNG [ 190.68 KiB | Viewed 3025 times ]

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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
Expert Reply
RohitSaluja wrote:
Hi EducationAisle, pleaser refer to the attached image, I have taken this from OG2020 edition, my question is why is B incorrect in this one?

At the very east, isn't a that missing in B?

...so...that...

Also, can you let us know what the Official explanation for B is?
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
EducationAisle wrote:
RohitSaluja wrote:
Hi EducationAisle, pleaser refer to the attached image, I have taken this from OG2020 edition, my question is why is B incorrect in this one?

At the very east, isn't a that missing in B?

...so...that...

Also, can you let us know what the Official explanation for B is?


Hi EducationAisle, attached is the OG explanation. To be honest it didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Attachments

Solution.PNG
Solution.PNG [ 322.15 KiB | Viewed 2599 times ]

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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
I was not able to rule out B here. I know the preferred idiom is "so x as to y", but I thought B was less redundant. I got reminded of the following question:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/an-array-of- ... 56809.html

"An array of tax incentives has led to a boom in the construction of new office buildings; so abundant has capital been for commercial real estate that investors regularly scour the country for areas in which to build."

Why can't we look at B as using "so" in a similar reading, like an intensifier?

"They are so gradual they can be indistinguishable at first...
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
GMATNinja Please help. Why isn't D better than A? And is this the only question where "so as to" is considered correct by GMAT?
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Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
AjiteshArun wrote:
This question tests two things: our familiarity with the so [ADJECTIVE] as to [PLAIN FORM] idiom, and our ability to remove options that have preference/meaning errors.

A. Although so as to... (definition 4) is typically used to communicate intention, the so [ADJECTIVE] as to [PLAIN FORM] (definition 1b) in this option is more like a "so that" or ~"with the result that" (~the outcome of something).

economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable from ordinary fluctuations ~ economic shifts are so gradual that they are indistinguishable from ordinary fluctuations

Here's another official question that does the same thing:
... the features of which are so unrealistic as to constitute... an "artificial face."

This can be read as "the features are so unrealistic that they constitute an 'artificial face'".

B. Option B is not grammatically incorrect, but there are two reasons to take it out: (a) the GMAT prefers to use a that in so... that and (b) can is not necessary here because the sentence anyway starts with often. That is, given the intended meaning of this sentence, "often, they are X" is better than "often, they can be X".

C. "They are unable to be" is not a very good way of saying "they cannot be" or "they are in-", and attaches some kind of ability/inability to economic shifts, which is unexpected (the shifts are able or unable to do something?).

D. "Not to be distinguishable" is not as good as "indistinguishable". Also, enough to be is typically used when someone or something meets (or does not meet) some required standard or mark. For example: the vaccine was safe enough to be approved or the vaccine was not safe enough to be approved. It seems strange to make to be distinguishable the result of some standard for major economic shifts.

E. This option has the same problem as D, and gradual enough so that would almost certainly be considered unidiomatic on the GMAT.


AjiteshArun
Sir i still have doubt in option C
isn't this sentence trying to say that economic shifts are unable to be distinguished by someone ,as it is in passive construction so action of unable to be distinguished done by someone so how can we say that shifts kind of lacks ability to distinguished.
please correct me
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
I was between A and B, and I finally chose B.
a. There is an idiom there. So … as to … This option is shorter than option b and overall looks fine. (I did not see the idiom though)
b. The problem with option “b”, has nothing to do with grammar. The problem is with the meaning. The word “Can” changes everything because we are not talking about that the graduality of economic shifts has the possibility of making the economic changes indistinguishable. The intended meaning is that they are actually indistinguishable.
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
Expert Reply
davro wrote:
I was between A and B, and I finally chose B.
a. There is an idiom there. So … as to … This option is shorter than option b and overall looks fine. (I did not see the idiom though)
b. The problem with option “b”, has nothing to do with grammar. The problem is with the meaning. The word “Can” changes everything because we are not talking about that the graduality of economic shifts has the possibility of making the economic changes indistinguishable. The intended meaning is that they are actually indistinguishable.


Hello davro,

We hope this finds you well.

To answer your query, the error in Option B is better described as an idiom error; it incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction “so + cause (“gradual”) + effect (“be indistinguishable”)”, rather than one of the idiomatic constructions “so + cause + as to + effect” or “so + cause + that + effect”; please remember, “so + cause + that + effect” or “so + cause + as to + effect” are some of the preferred constructions for conveying a cause-effect relationship.

To understand the use of "So As To" on GMAT, you may want to watch the following video (~1 minute):



All the best!
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
ExpertsGlobal5 wrote:
Dear Friends,

Here is a detailed explanation to this question-
study wrote:
Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

(A) so gradual as to be indistinguishable
(B) so gradual they can be indistinguishable
(C) so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished
(D) gradual enough not to be distinguishable
(E) gradual enough so that one cannot distinguish them


SC87460.01
OG2020 NEW QUESTION


Concepts tested here: Idioms + Redundancy/Awkwardness

• “enough + to” is a correct, idiomatic usage; besides, “enough” is used to show “adequacy” and generally not used to show a cause-effect relationship; rather, “so + cause + that + effect” or “so + cause + as to + effect” are some of the preferred constructions for conveying a cause-effect relationship.

A: Correct. This answer choice correctly uses the idiomatic construction “so + cause (“gradual”) + as to + effect (“be indistinguishable”)”. Further, Option A is free of any awkwardness or redundancy.

B: This answer choice incorrectly uses the unidiomatic construction “so + cause (“gradual”) + effect (“be indistinguishable”)”, rather than one of the idiomatic constructions “so + cause + as to + effect” or “so + cause + that + effect”; please remember, “so + cause + that + effect” or “so + cause + as to + effect” are some of the preferred constructions for conveying a cause-effect relationship.

C: Trap. This answer choice uses the needlessly wordy phrase “they are unable to be distinguished”, leading to awkwardness and redundancy.

D: This answer choice uses an awkward phrase “enough not to be distinguishable”; “enough” is used to show “adequacy” and generally not used to show a cause-effect relationship. We have a better answer choice in A.

E: This answer choice uses the unidiomatic construction “cause (“gradual”) + enough + so that + effect (“one cannot distinguish them”)”, rather than one of the idiomatic constructions “so + cause + as to + effect” and “so + cause + that + effect”; please remember, “enough” is used to show “adequacy” and generally not used to show a cause-effect relationship; rather, “so + cause + that + effect” or “so + cause + as to + effect” are some of the preferred constructions for conveying a cause-effect relationship.

Hence, A is the best answer choice.

To understand the concept of "So As To" on GMAT, you may want to watch the following video (~1 minute):



All the best!
Experts' Global Team


Hi Expert, I cannot understand your reply about choice A compared to the reply provided in that similar question: https://gmatclub.com/forum/technically- ... 68593.html

What actually makes one choice correct and one incorrect in the usage of so...as?

Regards.
Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
Quote:
Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

(A) so gradual as to be indistinguishable
(B) so gradual they can be indistinguishable
(C) so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished
(D) gradual enough not to be distinguishable
(E) gradual enough so that one cannot distinguish them

Request Experts Reply:
Can we write like something below, please?
**Often major economic shifts are so gradual that they can't be distinguished at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

Thanks__
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
study wrote:
Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

(A) so gradual as to be indistinguishable
(B) so gradual they can be indistinguishable
(C) so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished
(D) gradual enough not to be distinguishable
(E) gradual enough so that one cannot distinguish them


SC87460.01
OG2020 NEW QUESTION


I'm afraid to say that this question is another weird SC question that doesn't make any sense no matter how hard I look at it. yes we can rely on idioms but relying on idioms has never appealed to me.
the intended meaning behind this sentence is " there are major economic shifts that when they happen, appear indistinguishable from ordinary fluctuations" not a single option conveys this message in a clear way.
it's not clear if the action of being "indistinguishable" is on purpose, or it happens as a result.
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
Expert Reply
joe123x wrote:
study wrote:
Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

(A) so gradual as to be indistinguishable
(B) so gradual they can be indistinguishable
(C) so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished
(D) gradual enough not to be distinguishable
(E) gradual enough so that one cannot distinguish them


SC87460.01
OG2020 NEW QUESTION


I'm afraid to say that this question is another weird SC question that doesn't make any sense no matter how hard I look at it. yes we can rely on idioms but relying on idioms has never appealed to me.
the intended meaning behind this sentence is " there are major economic shifts that when they happen, appear indistinguishable from ordinary fluctuations" not a single option conveys this message in a clear way.
it's not clear if the action of being "indistinguishable" is on purpose, or it happens as a result.


Hello joe123x,

We hope this finds you well.

One important point to keep in mind on GMAT sentence correction is that you need to look for the "best" answer choice, not a hypothetical "perfect" answer choice. You may feel that all five answer choices convey the intended meaning poorly, but unless any of them are outright incorrect, that is immaterial.

We hope this helps.
All the best!
Experts' Global Team
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
study wrote:
Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

(A) so gradual as to be indistinguishable
(B) so gradual they can be indistinguishable
(C) so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished
(D) gradual enough not to be distinguishable
(E) gradual enough so that one cannot distinguish them


SC87460.01
OG2020 NEW QUESTION


For the split between A and C.

While the reasons mentioned above by many other experts as to why option C does not work are right. I also wanted to add that when we compare items in any form such as - not A but Y / so X as Y / so X that Y - we should compare the same parts of speech. In this question, so GRADUAL is an adjective and should hence have an adjective on the compared side as well. In option C, this symmetry is broken by adding a clause after "that".

Can any expert please weigh in and let me know of my understanding is correct?
KarishmaB AndrewN CrackVerbal
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Re: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable [#permalink]
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