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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
great articles.

regarding impossible far modification.

Can I say that when the phrase inserted between the far noun and its modifier modifies that noun, the modifier is acceptable ?

When the phrase inserted between the far noun and its modifier DOSE NOT modify that noun, the modifier is not acceptable?

can the rule be good for all cases?
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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Hi,

Here is a foundation concept on Noun phrases and Noun modifiers.

noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-prequel-135910.html#p1105284

-Rajat
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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Hi Simba2012,
I'm glad that you liked the article. But what makes me really happy that now you understand in which scenario "which" can modify a slightly far away noun.
Let me also congratulate for solving the execise correctly. Great job there.

You can also check out a foundation concept on Noun phrases and Noun modifiers.

noun-modifiers-can-modify-slightly-far-away-noun-prequel-135910.html#p1105284

Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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thangvietnam wrote:
Can I say that when the phrase inserted between the far noun and its modifier modifies that noun, the modifier is acceptable ?

When the phrase inserted between the far noun and its modifier DOSE NOT modify that noun, the modifier is not acceptable?

can the rule be good for all cases?


Hi there,

Yes, your understanding is correct. If the inserted phrase is modifying the head of the noun phrase they make together then a noun modifier can modify this slightly far away noun. If this inserted phrase is not doing so, then the noun modifier will moidfy the preceding noun.

Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
indeed very helpful, I took it as sacrosanct that "which" had to address the noun/article before it, this explains when the exceptions are valid. Thanks Sharddha.
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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Aximili85 wrote:
indeed very helpful, I took it as sacrosanct that "which" had to address the noun/article before it, this explains when the exceptions are valid. Thanks Sharddha.


I'm glad you found this article helpful. Thanks for your appreciation. :)

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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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Never thought I would ever use 'elegant' to describe a GMAT article but I am compelled to do so by this article.

Beautifully written and replete with lucid and relevant examples. Kudos!

Cheers,
Der alte Fritz (An inveterate grammarian)

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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OldFritz wrote:
Never thought I would ever use 'elegant' to describe a GMAT article but I am compelled to do so by this article.

Beautifully written and replete with lucid and relevant examples. Kudos!

Cheers,
Der alte Fritz (An inveterate grammarian)

Posted from my mobile device


This is certainly very flattering. Thanks so much for your appreciation. Such feedbacks keep motivating us to write better articles for you all. Thanks again. :)

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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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Hi folks,

Solve this question from OG 11#116 to see how a noun modifer is modifying a little far away noun in this problem.

Out of America’s fascination with all things antique have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing back the chaise lounge, the overstuffed sofa, and the daw-footed bathtub.

(A) things antique have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing
(B) things antique has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that is bringing
(C) things that are antiques has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that bring
(D) antique things have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing
(E) antique things has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that bring
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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Quote:
Solve this question from OG 11#116 to see how a noun modifer is modifying a little far away noun in this problem.

Out of America’s fascination with all things antique have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing back the chaise lounge, the overstuffed sofa, and the daw-footed bathtub.


Is B the correct choice? - (B) things antique has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that is bringing

that - is modifying the market and should be using singular verb. "that" can jump over the prepositional phrase 'of X and Y' to modify far away noun 'market'.
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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prepat wrote:
Is B the correct choice? - (B) things antique has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that is bringing

that - is modifying the market and should be using singular verb. "that" can jump over the prepositional phrase 'of X and Y' to modify far away noun 'market'.


Well done there. You have done a great job. :)
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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This is one of the finest explanations I've come across of any verbal concept. Kudos egmat!

Best part is I'm able to relate this concept while practicing. One of the questions on the OG diagnostic test :

"A colleague of his had managed to win a patent for one of the Kirchoff's laws, WHICH was an observation blabla..."

OG rejects the use of which here because 'which' can refer to both one or laws, hence it is ambiguous. NOW I understand why!
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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mandyrhtdm wrote:
Is THAT modifying "market" or "Fascination" ??


Hi there,

Relative pronoun "that" canoot modify "fascination" because there is a verb in between. The relative pronoun cannot jump over a verb to refer to a noun. In the correct choice B, "that" correctly refers to "market" to say that the market is bringing back some by-gone furnitures.

Hope this helps.
Thanls.
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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thangvietnam wrote:
Thank you e gmat experts.

pls help more. in the following from og 13, A and B are considered wrong because noun is far. This contradict with what is said in this posting.
pls explain.

The reason is that "slightly far noun" is considered inferior though acceptable. if we have a chance to avoid the "slightly far noun" , we should do so. Is that right? , pls help

It is called a sea, but the landlocked Caspian is
actually the largest lake on Earth, which covers more
than four times the surface area of its closest rival in
size, North America's Lake Superior.
(A) It is called a sea, but the landlocked Caspian is
actually the largest lake on Earth, which covers
(B) Although it is called a sea, actually the
landlocked Caspian is the largest lake on Earth,
which covers
(C) Though called a sea, the landlocked Caspian is
actually the largest lake on Earth, covering
(D) Though called a sea but it actually is the largest
lake on Earth, the landlocked Caspian covers
(E) Despite being called a sea, the largest lake on
Earth is actually the landlocked Caspian,
Covering


Hi @thangvietnam,

It is called a sea, but the landlocked Caspian is actually the largest lake on Earth, which covers more than four times the surface area of its closest rival in size, North America's Lake Superior.

I would not say that “which” modifies the preceding noun “Earth” in choices A and B and that is the reason why these two choices are incorrect.

I would reject choice A because of its construction. This choice introduces the pronoun first and then brings in the antecedent. Through PoE, I do find a better constructed, more precise, and an absolutely clear answer choice.

In choice B, I don’t agree with the placement of “actually”. I would prefer it to appear after “is” the way it does in the original answer choice. Again, I do have a better clear answer choice so I can comfortably reject choice B.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Hi folks,

Solve this question from OG 11#116 to see how a noun modifer is modifying a little far away noun in this problem.

Out of America’s fascination with all things antique have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing back the chaise lounge, the overstuffed sofa, and the daw-footed bathtub.

(A) things antique have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing
(B) things antique has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that is bringing
(C) things that are antiques has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that bring
(D) antique things have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing
(E) antique things has grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that bring



Hi Shradhha,
Can you please explain it in a bit detail to help me understand as I'm having problem to gauge why 'has grown a market' is right here..?

Is it because of the fact that the verb 'grown' precedes the subject 'market' here..?
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
thangvietnam wrote:
Thank you e gmat experts.

pls help more. in the following from og 13, A and B are considered wrong because noun is far. This contradict with what is said in this posting.
pls explain.

The reason is that "slightly far noun" is considered inferior though acceptable. if we have a chance to avoid the "slightly far noun" , we should do so. Is that right? , pls help

It is called a sea, but the landlocked Caspian is
actually the largest lake on Earth, which covers more
than four times the surface area of its closest rival in
size, North America's Lake Superior.
(A) It is called a sea, but the landlocked Caspian is
actually the largest lake on Earth, which covers
(B) Although it is called a sea, actually the
landlocked Caspian is the largest lake on Earth,
which covers
(C) Though called a sea, the landlocked Caspian is
actually the largest lake on Earth, covering
(D) Though called a sea but it actually is the largest
lake on Earth, the landlocked Caspian covers
(E) Despite being called a sea, the largest lake on
Earth is actually the landlocked Caspian,
Covering


Hi @thangvietnam,

It is called a sea, but the landlocked Caspian is actually the largest lake on Earth, which covers more than four times the surface area of its closest rival in size, North America's Lake Superior.

I would not say that “which” modifies the preceding noun “Earth” in choices A and B and that is the reason why these two choices are incorrect.

I would reject choice A because of its construction. This choice introduces the pronoun first and then brings in the antecedent. Through PoE, I do find a better constructed, more precise, and an absolutely clear answer choice.

In choice B, I don’t agree with the placement of “actually”. I would prefer it to appear after “is” the way it does in the original answer choice. Again, I do have a better clear answer choice so I can comfortably reject choice B.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha



I think right ans : C

@Sharadhha,can you please confirm this..?
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Re: Noun Modifiers can Modify slightly far away noun [#permalink]
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bagdbmba wrote:
Hi Shradhha,
Can you please explain it in a bit detail to help me understand as I'm having problem to gauge why 'has grown a market' is right here..?

Is it because of the fact that the verb 'grown' precedes the subject 'market' here..?


Hi bagdbmba,

Out of America’s fascination with all things antique have grown a market for bygone styles of furniture and fixtures that are bringing back the chaise lounge, the overstuffed sofa, and the daw-footed bathtub.

In the original sentence as well as in all the answer choices, relative pronoun is “that” appears right after “fixtures”. However, it does not make sense for “that” to modify “fixtures” because then the sentence will non-sensically convey that “fixtures” or for that matter “furniture and fixtures” are bringing back the chaise lounge and other furniture.

This relative pronoun cannot logically as well grammatically refer to “fascination” because it has to jump over the verb “have grown”. The relative pronoun can at the maximum jump over a modifier such as a prepositional phrase to refer to a slightly far-away. Under no condition it can jump over a verb to do so.

This is the reason why this sentence has been written in inverted SV form where the verb appears first and then comes the subject so that the relative modifier “that” can be used.

Let’s try to write this sentence is normal SV structure form:

Out of America’s fascination with all things antique, a market has grown for bygone furniture and fixtures that is bringing back the chaise lounge, the overstuffed sofa, and the daw-footed bathtub.

In this sentence, “that” cannot modify “a market” because it will have to jump over a word to do so. But doing so is not a possibility. Hence, we need to stick to the inverse SV format for this sentence.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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