The 2012-2013 Zero Admit Club

I dnt know whether this is a rant, or something that I truthfully want to say and share will fellow "dingers"?. I have been a silent observant on gmatclub for over 2 years now. I have taken advice/advantage of a lot of resources here, but rarely contributed, for which I apologize. But this is something I wanted to do....after I got dinged by Booth yesterday, Kellogg on Monday, and by Tuck last Friday. I have spent almost the last 2 years on things related to an MBA. Started my prep seriously in Dec 2010, with the first attempt a meager 690 followed by a 2nd attempt with a 700. While the scores weren't bad, what makes them worse is that I am an Indian.
Still, I prepared for my applications with a whole lot of zest. I spent over 6 months in analyzing my strengths and weaknesses, thought of strong points, things to mention in the essays. In July, I suffered an ACL tear and having undergone surgery in August, it was a mountain of an effort to complete my application. I just applied to 4 schools and made the sure that I gave it my very best. While my acads and GMAT score are not exceptional, my extra curriculars do make me stand out quite well, both during under-grad and the stuff I am doing now. So I was really shocked why no school would want to take me in-- I do feel I stand out well and have a lot of factors working in my favor, and I genuinely believe I have a passionate individual who has much to contribute in class.

As I brush aside the dirt and wipe the blood, I know I feel the despair, the hopelessness of having to do it all over again. I know you feel burdened by it too. But I feel that we all have this little spark inside of us. This spark that makes us uncomfortable to just sit and go through the motions at our current jobs, this spark that wants us to do better than the millions who are satisfied with their current lives.

Don't loose that spark. I know I wont. I know I do not have the option and dnt want to give up. I know that the schools that didnt take us made a big mistake. I know I am better than this... And so are you.

I completely understand how frustrating this is. It looks like you are a great candidate and there is no question that you can get in to a top school.

Did you connect your extracurricular activities to your career goals? If not, that may help you next year to communicate your passion if perhaps that was overlooked by the AdCom. Also, there is some great advice on selecting programs in a book called "MBA Admission For Smarties" that I think you will benefit from. As you are a member of an "over-represented group" (as am I) the authors suggest that we should be on the north end of their 80% GMAT, GPA range, to choose to apply. I suppose you've got the option to retake the GMAT and try for a mid700s score. Wouldn't it be nice if schools posted their 80% GMAT/GPA ranges based on demographic data?

Also, please post more often. Me and many others could benefit greatly from your experiences!

Unbounded, I am sorry that the process has been so rough on you. You seem like you have the passion to make a top mba. However, the schools you applied to are all out of this world (WOW) schools. Remember the acceptance rate is <20% at most places, so try not to feel too discouraged. When I picked my schools, I picked a range between Wharton and Yale. I figured I fall somewhere in between, but would quit my job to go to any of the 4 schools I chose. I ended up only getting accepted at Cornell thus far. I put together a kick ass app for Wharton and all the schools I applied.

Rejection feels like crap, but its part of this game. The way I see it is you have 2 choices. 1) Keep your head up (dont lose your spark as you call it) and come back stronger and harder next year. Do everything you can to get one extra promotion, one extra curricular, one extra school visit, maybe even one more set of rejections. OR 2) You lower your range out of the WOW schools. You def will get into a 15-25 program, as the poster above me notes your chances are stronger if you work the schools where your stats are upper 80% range.

Don't get me wrong, it appears you do have the stats to get into a top 10 MBA. Sometimes its just more of a crapshoot than anything else. Best of luck and never give up. Ive seen posters on here (OhDenny) who put 3 application seasons in to get accepted. And if you asked that poster who is at Yale now, I bet you he will tell you it was worth every rejection.

I second this. There are limited seats at the top schools and you are competing against some of the smartest/ambitious people in the world.

I would also cast a wider net when selecting schools. I know it's a lot of work, but the reason I say this is because different Adcoms look for different things and it's just too tough to predict who will take whom. There are people that get accepted by HBS but dinged at Kellogg. Accepted by Tuck and dinged at Johnson. Find schools that will help you meet your career goals and do not apply to a school you would not ultimately happy be attending. Best of luck.

Unbounded, I was in your situation last year. I applied to a couple of top schools (after taking GMAT twice) and got dinged by them. I re-started again this year very early in June, hired a good consultant and got into 3 of the 5 schools I applied (decision awaiting for one of them). I would strongly encourage you to apply again - reapplicants usually have more maturity to know what to expect the next year and I bet you will get in next year when you re-apply.

Also do note that the schools you applied to are extremely selective. Good to have some less selective schools in your list as well.

All the best!

Cornell is a very good school and I can assure you in coming few years it would be in the IVY leave. I m not equating it with H/S/W but yes other than these three cornell would make the rankings upside down.



Bro, for Indians competition is very high and adcoms really have to select exceptional from the best list. Do not lose hope and keep fighting & leave everything on Almighty. Things would start flowing soon in your favor. Keep it Up!!

I'm sorry about the dings. I definitely empathize. Keep your head up and grind away, and things will work out.

It really is disgusting how much higher the bar is for Asian men, but that is a topic for a different thread altogether.

Hey guys,

I have been on GmatClub for over 2 years and i have never seen the zero admit thread. Honestly I have applied twice before admittedly with a much weaker application and I'm very worried this time as well. I'm hoping it goes my way this time but from personal experience (twice before!) Keep your chin up. If you are truly determined something will work out.

Maybe it's not exactly how you thought it would be but that just means that there is something you aren't seeing yet.

Just a small example is that if I had got into MBA a year or 2 years ago I never would have had the opportunity to start my e-commerce venture designing and selling Laptop Skins. Today the business has begun rolling, and I have entrepreneurial experience and through it I am able to donate some proceeds to an NGO all while doing what I normally do to decompress everyday, Design!

So my point is it will work out at some point so stay positive and alert for that opportunity.

Whatever happens happens for a reason and that too by almighty's will.

Hey kidchaos,

You missed out on some great threads then! To dig up history, here you go:

• The 2011-2012 Zero Admit Club
• The 2009 Zero Admit Club
• The 2008 Zero Admit Club
• 2008 Zero Admits - Where Are They Now?

In a similar vein to the "2008 Zero Admits - Where Are They Now?" thread, I've compiled the same information for the 2011-2012 Zero Admit Club:

2011-2012 Zero Admit Club - Where Are They Now?

• canadianchamp - Duke
• mappleby - Columbia
• huntzman - Darden, Booth
• str1der - Tuck, Kellogg
• anordinaryguy
• chromium73
• Hizzo
• sdd996

It's still early in the 12-13 cycle and we're already seeing some great results! Hope this gives you all some hope for later application cycles.

As was just mentioned above, definitely keep your head up and don't get too discouraged. I went from the zero admit club last year to an ED acceptance at Columbia and an invitation to interview at Booth(withdrew my application before interview because of the CBS admit). A couple of things to think about. I would recommend a Ding Analysis from a reputable consultant. They are relatively cheap, mine was only $125 but was incredibly helpful. Looking back my application wasn't bad per se but it wasn't strong either. This is a tough competition and if you don't have anybody at your company from a top MBA program make sure you are making connections in schools now who can help review your essays. Retaking the GMAT to go from a bottom score to a top score probably made a big difference as well. If you're at the 730+ level then you are probably better served working on other areas of your application but if you're at the 700 or less it would be very worthwhile to boost that up if you think you can.

In the end, don't give up hope. 4 dings last year without interview invites. I only interviewed at Kellogg because they do 100% interviews but the other 3 dinged me without interview. It was painful, especially getting waitlisted at Kellogg because I have some very strong family ties with the school and thought I killed it on the interview. Don't lose focus and keep doing great stuff.

How is the reapplication process at Columbia? Columbia is the only school to have invited me to interview, so that seems to be the most favorable place to re-apply.

Just a few basic words of encouragement. If attending top MBA program is something that you want to do, then there should be nothing that stops you from attaining this goal. There is no shame in re-applying to schools that rejected you or applying for a second or even third time. Admissions people have great respect for people with this much drive and focus and this passion really does come through. So, do not give up hope.

I too would encourage you to first of all reflect upon your application process and be honest with yourself what could have gone wrong. Perhaps you trusted a person to write a recommendation who you should not have or did not spend as much time on your essays or rushed the whole process just to get your applications in for R1. Also, you should contact an admissions consulting firm and contract with a person who was actually on an admissions committee to see how your application would have been received. This is a relatively small investment in this entire process but one that usually turns out to be incredibly valuable. Lastly, remember to learn from your mistakes and do not submit the same application you did this year or proceed under the same direction -- if it did not work the first time around, then it most probably will not work the second time around.

Kimberly Plaga
Senior Admissions Consultant
Manhattan Review

Call for a free candidacy assessment

I have to ask: what are your goals and what criteria are you using for schools besides rankings? With the exception of Tuck, it looks like you just decided to apply to some other top 9 programs that you didn't apply to the year before. Have you considered Ross/Darden/Duke/Cornell? Those schools have a bit higher acceptance rate and are still fantastic schools. As a bonus, your 760 GMAT could help earn you some scholarship $$.

Best of luck.

Hey, original poster, you're pretty young and if I were you I'd take a few years off from this process to focus on my career. Apply in 2015 and you'll have tons more experience and hopefully your career interests and goals will be much refined. This heart ache embeds itself into you if you let it so it is probably best to throw it all behind you and enjoy the good things that are going on in your life (maybe get a new job?).

Sorry you're in this spot. It sucks.

Agreed. Looks like you are tad too young and based on your post, I see you are looking at it as an exit out of a miserable job. My advice is to get a new job(don't worry about explaining a new job on your essays, as long as you have a good justification for it, you can relate it to your LT career goals, the thought clarity is what the adcom is looking at).

Also, I would say take a break - continually applying for B-schools and getting dinged has 2 disadvantages - 1) It makes you miserable and 2) It makes it that much harder when you re-apply to the school, and you have applied to all the top schools. It is harder to justify how you have progressed in your career, as a re-applicant.

Unbounded,

I feel for you and empathize with your frustration. Don't give up, but I have a few thoughts for you as an MBA reapplicant (I prefer that title to the a "Zero Admit.").
1) While your passion and enthusiasm are vital and admirable, they are not sufficient to ensure a positive outcome. For the schools you mentioned your GMAT score puts you 20-30 points under the overall average GMAT and probably more below the average for Indians, which is one of the most competitive groups. The GMAT isn't everything, but it IS important.
2) Rejections are usually caused by A) a lack of competitiveness, B) a poor presentation of your qualifications, C) being a "victim of the numbers at highly competitive programs, especially if you are from an over-represented group, or D) a combination of the above. To reapply successfully, you need to objectively assess which of these three elements most contributed to your rejection. To the extent the first two are most significant, you have to either improve your qualifications or broaden your range of schools. If presentation is an issue, the easiest to fix, you need to improve your presentation in terms of the essays, recommendation, resume, and letters of recommendation. The numbers, i.e. your competition, are something you have little control over, but they are a reality you have to recognize.
3) Realize that in order to have a successful application, you need to apply to schools that support your post-MBA goals, provide the education you want to study, AND that are likely to accept you. If you only apply to the former, you will have a similar outcome to your round 1 results.
4) Many MBA applicants want to change careers. That's fine. But don't let dislike of your job be overriding. Be guided by the career or vision you have of your future.
5) Don't be blinded by brand. Yes, some careers and dreams require certain schools. Again, if you can get into them, great. But if you can't you still need to be realistic. There are just under 1000 graduate business schools in the U.S. If you attend one in the top 25, you are attending a school in the top 2.5% Choose a school that supports your realistic goals. If you want to apply to a dream school or two, go for it, but also apply to a few where you chances of acceptance are good.
6) Finally, someone mentioned a ding analysis. You've spent hundreds of hours and probably thousands of dollars on test prep and applications. If you don't have the objectivity and experience to assess what went wrong this time and how to change the results, it may just pay to invest in an application review.

I hope these suggestions help. We have a lot of resources for reapplicants at:

* https://www.accepted.com/mba/decisions.aspx#Rejected
* https://www.accepted.com/mba/reapplication.aspx

Best,
Linda Abraham