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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the sentence "John has more love for money than his wife." has a univocal meaning: Both and John and his wife love money. But between the two, John loves it more.

The sentence "John has more love for money than FOR his wife." has the unambiguous meaning: John loves both money and his wife. But he loves money more.

Can anyone clarify this issue?
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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Hi All,

We apologize for the confusion regarding the oppficial answer of teh practice question mentioned in this article. This article was reproduced and in the process, the person who reproduced the article made a typo error regarding the OA.

The Correct NAswer indeed is Choice C. The error has been rectified, and once again we apologize for any confusion this error created.

Thanks.
Shraddha
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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Recobita wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the sentence "John has more love for money than his wife." has a univocal meaning: Both and John and his wife love money. But between the two, John loves it more.

The sentence "John has more love for money than FOR his wife." has the unambiguous meaning: John loves both money and his wife. But he loves money more.

Can anyone clarify this issue?


Hi Recobita,

John has more love for money than his wife.

This sentence does not have the univocal meaning as you have explained. It actually has ambiguous because we can infer two meanings here. One meaning can be what you have inferred where the entities compared are John and his wife. The second meaning can be that John loves both his wife and money but he loves money more.

If the meaning that you have inferred were univocal, there would not be any need of repeating helping verbs to clarify comparisons. If this was the case, then the official sentence mentioned in the article, would have two correct answer choices.

The sentences that have unambiguous meanings are:
a. John has more love for money than DOES his wife.
b. John has more love for money than FOR his wife.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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Here is the much awaited solution for the Official Question posted in this article.

Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow that have propelled automobile companies common stocks to new highs, several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively than they were.


Sentence Structure
• Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow
o that have propelled automobile companies common stocks to new highs,
• (Continuation of 1st Clause) several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively
o than they were.

Meaning
• This sentence presents a contrast.
• Fact 1
o There have been recent increases in sales and cash flow of the automobile companies.
o These increases have pushed their stocks to new highs.
• Contrasting Fact 2
o However, several analysts expect automakers to set dividends more conservatively than they have been doing in the past in order to conserve cash.



Error Analysis
Now let’s find the errors in the original sentence.

• Despite recent increases in sales and cash flow
o that have propelled automobile companies common stocks to new highs,
• (Continuation of 1st Clause) several industry analysts expect automakers, in order to conserve cash, to set dividends more conservatively
o than they were.

The underlined portion of the sentence presents comparison. It intends to say that the automakers will have to be more conservative in setting dividends than they were before.

Now in order to present comparison in grammatically correct manner, the entity following the comparison marker “than” should be parallel to the entity preceding it. But in this sentence, that is not the case. Let’s see what is happening here:
We have the case of ellipsis, i.e. a few words are not repeated. But whenever we omit words, these omitted words must be present somewhere in the sentence in the same form. From the construction of choice A, it appears that the part after “than” should be “they were setting”. Note that “setting” has been omitted. And this is the mistake in this sentence because “setting” is not present in the sentence. The expression “to set” is present. Hence we cannot omit something that is not present in the sentence and thus the ellipsis has not been done appropriately. So in order to correct this error, we will need to explicitly state the complete idea.

With this understanding of the error in choice A, we will do the PoE to find the correct answer.

PoE
A. to set dividends more conservatively than they were : Incorrect for the reasons stated above - incorrect application of ellipsis.

B. to set dividends more conservatively than they have been: Incorrect.

This choice repeats the error in choice A. The latter part of comparison can be completed by saying “they have been setting”. And again the word “setting” does not appear in the sentence and hence this choice is incorrect.

C. to be more conservative than they have been in setting dividends : Correct.
This choice corrects the error of choice A by explicitly stating the entire idea.

D. that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends : Incorrect
This choice results in following sentence:
…several industry analysts expect automakers that they will be more conservative than they were in setting dividends.
Note that the correct usage of “expect” is as follows:
• Elders expect youngsters to respect them. – expect x to verb
• Elders expect that youngsters respect them. – expect that x verb
However this choice uses expect in an incorrect manner similar to following:
• Elders expect youngsters that youngsters respect them.
This is why this choice is incorrect.

E. that they will be more conservative than they have been to set dividends: Incorrect.

This choice also repeats the error in choice D.



1. Always make sure that the omitted words (when applying ellipsis) appear in the sentence elsewhere.
2. Use words in their correct usage; expect has not been used correctly in choices D and E.

- Payal
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
Hi E-GMAT,

Although Napoleon’s army entered Russia with far
more supplies than they had in their previous
campaigns, it had provisions for only twenty-four days.
(A) they had in their previous campaigns,
(B) their previous campaigns had had,
(C) they had for any previous campaign,
(D) in their previous campaigns,
(E) for any previous campaign,

After going the OG solution and E-GMAT analysis , the only thing i need to clarify is the statement "for any previous campaign" in which the word "FOR" is not mention the any previous statement then how come we can use "FOR"?.

Referring to one the above statement "John has more love for money than FOR his wife." where FOR was used to show more clear comparison that mention earlier in the sentence?

Could you please help to whatI'm missing ?

Thanks
Nitin
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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Nitinaka19 wrote:
Hi E-GMAT,

Although Napoleon’s army entered Russia with far
more supplies than they had in their previous
campaigns, it had provisions for only twenty-four days.
(A) they had in their previous campaigns,
(B) their previous campaigns had had,
(C) they had for any previous campaign,
(D) in their previous campaigns,
(E) for any previous campaign,

After going the OG solution and E-GMAT analysis , the only thing i need to clarify is the statement "for any previous campaign" in which the word "FOR" is not mention the any previous statement then how come we can use "FOR"?.

Referring to one the above statement "John has more love for money than FOR his wife." where FOR was used to show more clear comparison that mention earlier in the sentence?

Could you please help to whatI'm missing ?

Thanks
Nitin


Dear Nitin,

Thank you for posting your query here.

In comparisons, we need to ensure that the logical comparison between two entities is clear, regardless of whether ellipsis is used. In the example sentence you quoted, "for" is required to make the comparison clear, since without it, the comparison is ambiguous. However, in the case of this question, the comparison is not ambiguous. Let's look at the correct version of the sentence:

Although Napoleon’s army entered Russia with far more supplies than for any previous campaign, it had provisions for only twenty-four days.

The two entities compared in this sentence are as follows:

X: the supplies for the Russian campaign
Y: the supplies for any previous campaign

Since this meaning is logically clear from the context of the sentence, "for" doesn't have to be used twice.

I hope this helps with your doubt!

Regards,
Meghna
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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Ellipsis Doubt:-

1.Greyhounds run faster than bulldogs. - Is statement wrong? run is already present in the sentence. so is it required after bulldogs again?
2.Greyhounds run faster than bulldogs run/do.- this is explicit so clear
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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ranit123 wrote:
Ellipsis Doubt:-

1.Greyhounds run faster than bulldogs. - Is statement wrong? run is already present in the sentence. so is it required after bulldogs again?
2.Greyhounds run faster than bulldogs run/do.- this is explicit so clear


Hi @ranit123,

Thanks for your post. :-)

Both versions of this sentence are logically correct. In the first one, the comparison is clearly between greyhounds and bulldogs. In the second version of the sentence, it's not incorrect to include the verb 'run' or 'do' after 'bulldogs', but the verb isn't necessary here since the meaning is perfectly clear even if we don't repeat the verb.

Note that ellipsis should be avoided only when using it creates ambiguity. For example:

My house is closer to the lake than the market.

This sentence contains ambiguity because we can't identify the comparison it's trying to make. It could mean one of two things:
1. My house is closer to the lake than to the market. - Comparison between the lake and the market.
2. My house is closer to the lake than the market is. - Comparison between my house and the market.

There are three nouns in this sentence: my house, the lake, and the market. In the example sentence you've given, there are only two nouns: the greyhounds and the bulldogs. There's no question of ambiguity there.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Meghna
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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1. Asking About Quantity

UNCOUNTABLE: how much: How much does she travel? How much time did you work on that?

COUNTABLE: how many: How many trips does she take? How many hours did you work on that?

2. Comparing Equal Quantities

UNCOUNTABLE: as much as: Does your professor have as much knowledge as mine?

COUNTABLE: as many as: Has your professor written as many books as mine?

3. Increase, Comparative

UNCOUNTABLE: more: Is Albert Pujols more talented than Ichiro Suzuki?

COUNTABLE: more: Does Albert Pujols have more RBIs than Ichiro Suzuki?

4. Decrease, Comparative

UNCOUNTABLE: less: Is grandpa less argumentative now? In a week, you should eat less ice cream.

COUNTABLE: fewer: Does grandpa have fewer arguments now? In a week, you should eat fewer servings of ice cream.

5. Intensification, for an increase

UNCOUNTABLE: how much more: How much more distance will we have to travel?

COUNTABLE: how many more: How many more miles will we have to travel?

6. Intensification, for an decrease

UNCOUNTABLE: how much less: Consider how much less money you would have left if you bought the expensive kind.

COUNTABLE: how many fewer: Consider how many fewer of these you would have been able to buy if you bought the expensive kind.

7. The extreme of an increase

UNCOUNTABLE: too much: He reads too much. She has too much pride to apply for that job.

COUNTABLE: too many: He has too many books. She has too many degrees to apply for that job.

8. The extreme of a decrease

UNCOUNTABLE: too little: Unfortunately, we did too little advertising for this event.

COUNTABLE: too few: Unfortunately, too few people attended this event.

9. Word referring to the quantity

UNCOUNTABLE: amount: No amount of hand-wringing will solve this problem. This amount of mashed potatoes should be enough for dinner.

COUNTABLE: number: No number of calls to your mother will solve this problem. This number of baked potatoes should be enough for dinner.
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Re: HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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Dear egmat


In the First example, John has more love for money than has his wife.
In another example, My house is close to the lake than the market is.

some little doubt arises in my mind. Do we need to repeat the verb after the noun or before the noun? or it doesn't matter as long as the sentence preserves the intended meaning?

another example;
She has more English romantic books than have I
or
She has more English romantic books than I have
or
She has more English romantic books than do I

are the above three examples fine? correct me if I was wrong,
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HOW FAR ELLIPSIS IS PERMISSIBLE IN COMPARISON [#permalink]
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