Last visit was: 24 Apr 2024, 03:37 It is currently 24 Apr 2024, 03:37

Close
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Close
Request Expert Reply
Confirm Cancel
SORT BY:
Date
Tutor
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 14817
Own Kudos [?]: 64890 [104]
Given Kudos: 426
Location: Pune, India
Send PM
Most Helpful Reply
Tutor
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 14817
Own Kudos [?]: 64890 [39]
Given Kudos: 426
Location: Pune, India
Send PM
User avatar
Retired Moderator
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 615
Own Kudos [?]: 2929 [16]
Given Kudos: 25
Location: London
 Q51  V41
Send PM
General Discussion
User avatar
Manager
Manager
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 102
Own Kudos [?]: 344 [0]
Given Kudos: 10
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
My answer is C

There are only two pairs possible i.e. 2^4 = 4^2 and -2^-4 = -4^-2
you will get it with trial and error method.
User avatar
SVP
SVP
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Status:<strong>Nothing comes easy: neither do I want.</strong>
Posts: 2279
Own Kudos [?]: 3593 [0]
Given Kudos: 235
Location: Malaysia
Concentration: Technology, Entrepreneurship
Schools: ISB '15 (M)
GMAT 1: 670 Q49 V31
GMAT 2: 710 Q50 V35
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
A 700-level question for the GMAT committed souls studying over the weekend.

Q. If a and b are distinct integers and \(a^b = b^a\), how many solutions does the ordered pair (a, b) have?

(A) None
(B) 1
(C) 2
(D) 4
(E) Infinite

Hint: Use logic, not Math. Look for patterns.


(2,4) and (4,2)

a=1 b=1 and a=2 b=2 also has the solution. But we need distinct. Now when we will increase a>4, b^a increase more rapidly than a^b.
User avatar
Intern
Intern
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 24
Own Kudos [?]: 133 [8]
Given Kudos: 51
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
7
Kudos
1
Bookmarks
My take is:D
(a,b) pairs possible are: (2,4) (4,2) (-2,-4), (-4,-2)

What is the mathematical way rather than number substituation?

Cheers!
Ravi
User avatar
SVP
SVP
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Status:<strong>Nothing comes easy: neither do I want.</strong>
Posts: 2279
Own Kudos [?]: 3593 [1]
Given Kudos: 235
Location: Malaysia
Concentration: Technology, Entrepreneurship
Schools: ISB '15 (M)
GMAT 1: 670 Q49 V31
GMAT 2: 710 Q50 V35
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
1
Kudos
:P Oh yes !! I didn't take -ve values.

The answer should be 4 -D
User avatar
Manager
Manager
Joined: 11 Jul 2010
Posts: 139
Own Kudos [?]: 215 [0]
Given Kudos: 20
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
2 to power 8 is not equal to 8 to the power 2... its D.... not infinite
User avatar
Manager
Manager
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 101
Own Kudos [?]: 545 [1]
Given Kudos: 5
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
1
Kudos
Any suggestions on how to be sure that only (2,4) (4,2) and ofcourse the negatives of these solution. I came up with this solution in around 2 mins but spent the next 2 mins confirming that there cannot be other solutions like (3,9) with where a is a square of b or (3,27).
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 119
Own Kudos [?]: 584 [1]
Given Kudos: 65
GMAT 1: 750 Q49 V42
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
1
Kudos
D

An interesting question that made me think a little.

I found 4 right away, but spent another 2 minutes trying other numbers.

I should have recognized the pattern developing, but it somehow never crossed my mind.
Tutor
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 14817
Own Kudos [?]: 64890 [1]
Given Kudos: 426
Location: Pune, India
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
1
Kudos
Expert Reply
scheol79 - Yes, pattern recognition is a beneficial skill to have on GMAT. It could save you precious time.
nravi549 & devashish - This question tests your logic and pattern recognition skills. Perhaps tests your exposure to number properties. But still, if all you curious people out there are wondering whether we can prove it mathematically, we sure can! But I must warn you, it involves Math beyond the scope of GMAT and hence is irrelevant. Nevertheless, wait for a few mins, I will post it!

Originally posted by KarishmaB on 24 Oct 2010, 16:34.
Last edited by KarishmaB on 24 Oct 2010, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
Tutor
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 14817
Own Kudos [?]: 64890 [4]
Given Kudos: 426
Location: Pune, India
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
1
Kudos
3
Bookmarks
Expert Reply
We are considering only positive integers where a < b.
It we prove that \(a^{a+1} > (a+1)^a\), I think the rest will follow.

LHS:\(a^{a+1} = a^a.a^1 = a^a + a^a + a^a ......a times\)
Here the right hand side of the equation has a terms.

RHS: Using Binomial, \((a+1)^a = a^a + aC1.a^{a-1} + aC2.a^{a-2} + aC3.a^{a-3} + ... +1\)

\((a+1)^a = a^a + a^a + a(a-1)/2. a^{a-2} + a(a-1)(a-2)/6. a^{a-3} + ...+1\)
Note that here the right hand side of the equation has (a+1) terms. The last term of 1 is extra.

Now, if we compare \(a^a + a^a + a^a ......a times\) and \(a^a + a^a + a(a-1)/2. a^{a-2} + a(a-1)(a-2)/6. a^{a-3} + ...+1\) term by term, first two terms are the same but every subsequent term of the second expression is less than the corresponding term of the first expression.

Then why doesn't it work for 2? That is because the comparison in case of 2 looks like this:
\(2^2 + 2^2\)is compared with \(2^2 + 2^2 + 1\)
The first two terms, as we said before, are anyway equal but the second expression has an extra term of 1. Hence the second expression is greater.

In case of 3 and greater integers, \(3^3 + 3^3 + 3^3\) is compared with \(3^3 + 3^3 + 3.2/2.3^1 + 1\)
The extra term of 1 cannot make up for the deficit of the third term. Hence, as the numbers keep increasing, the gap will keep getting wider!

Note: This Math is beyond the scope of GMAT.
Tutor
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 14817
Own Kudos [?]: 64890 [1]
Given Kudos: 426
Location: Pune, India
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
1
Kudos
Expert Reply
That is an absolutely solid proof, in my opinion. Kudos for the very good work shrouded1.
Anyone else would like to take a shot at proving it mathematically in a different way? Try it!

Note: The discussion of the proof here is for intellectual stimulation only. Please do not get lost in the mathematics if it doesn't interest you. The takeaway from the question is pattern recognition.
User avatar
Manager
Manager
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 222
Own Kudos [?]: 5228 [1]
Given Kudos: 136
Send PM
If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a [#permalink]
1
Kudos
Question: If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a, how many solutions does the ordered pair (a, b) have?

(A) None
(B) 1
(C) 2
(D) 4
(E) Infinite

Hi Experts,
I'm stumped by this question, and have seen quite a few questions that usually test understanding of exponential questions. From the first impression of this question, I found that this question will test positive,negative, 0, even, odd every possibility. Can someone please post a detailed solution of this.

Thanks
avatar
Intern
Intern
Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Own Kudos [?]: 201 [0]
Given Kudos: 14
Schools: Duke '16
Send PM
Re: If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a [#permalink]
i could only get one solution - 2^4 equals 4^2

Someone please explain the solution to this..
User avatar
Director
Director
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Status:Far, far away!
Posts: 859
Own Kudos [?]: 4890 [1]
Given Kudos: 219
Location: Italy
Concentration: Finance, Entrepreneurship
GPA: 3.8
Send PM
Re: If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a [#permalink]
1
Kudos
karishmatandon wrote:
i could only get one solution - 2^4 + 4^2

Someone please explain the solution to this..


We are looking for values of a, b such that \(a^b=b^a\), those values have to be different (a=1, b=1 will not count for example)

One combination as you say is (2,4), but because the order does matter this values give us 2 pairs (2,4) (4,2)
\(2^4=4^2\) or \(16=16\)

The other pair of values that respect that condition is -2,-4 so other 2 possible solutions here : (-2,-4) and (-4,-2)
\((-2)^-^4=(-4)^-^2\) or \(\frac{1}{16}=\frac{1}{16}\)

So 4 possible solutions: D

Hope it's clear, let me know
User avatar
Director
Director
Joined: 02 Sep 2012
Status:Far, far away!
Posts: 859
Own Kudos [?]: 4890 [1]
Given Kudos: 219
Location: Italy
Concentration: Finance, Entrepreneurship
GPA: 3.8
Send PM
Re: If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a [#permalink]
1
Bookmarks
imhimanshu wrote:
Hi Zarrolou,

Would you mind giving a shot on this one with an algebraic/graphical way.. :)

Regards,
H


A graph here is not possible, we would need a third dimension
An algebric way is also very difficult to obtain, and is way beyond the GMAT-Math

Remember:
\(a^b=b^a\)

is true for the following integers
(1,1) (2,2) and all the values such that a=b (of course...) AND (4,2) (2,4) \(2^4=4^2\)
same thing for values <0: (-1,-1) ... AND (-4,-2) ( -2,-4)
If you want you can take away this simple tip, which is in my opinion much easier than solve the equation
Tutor
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 14817
Own Kudos [?]: 64890 [0]
Given Kudos: 426
Location: Pune, India
Send PM
If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a, how many [#permalink]
Expert Reply
imhimanshu wrote:

Would you mind giving a shot on this one with an algebraic/graphical way.. :)



Check out the blog posts on the link given in my signature below.

Originally posted by KarishmaB on 27 Apr 2013, 23:53.
Last edited by KarishmaB on 17 Oct 2022, 00:23, edited 1 time in total.
avatar
Intern
Intern
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
Posts: 6
Own Kudos [?]: 6 [0]
Given Kudos: 61
Send PM
Re: Try this one - 700 Level, Number Properties [#permalink]
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Anyone else would like to take a shot at proving it mathematically in a different way? Try it.

Hi my friends, this is my solution: (please forgive me if my bad English confuses you)
For this solution to be short, le'ts assume we already have :
\(0<a<b\)
and we found that \((2,4)\) are one pair that satisfies the equation
now let's consider \(3=<a<b\)
we can prove that the pair (a,b) that satisfies the equation does not exist if \(3=<a<b\) even when a and b are not intengers.
let's see : \(a^b=b^a\) so \(ln(a^b)=ln(b^a)\) so \(b.ln(a)=a.ln(b)\) it is the same as this equation \(\frac{lna}{a}=\frac{lnb}{b}\)
let's consider function : \(f(x)=\frac{lnx}{x}\) (with \(x>=3\))
we have \(\frac{df(x)}{dx}=\frac{1-lnx}{x^2}\)
because \(x>=3>e\) we have \(1-lnx<0\) and then we have \(\frac{df(x)}{dx}<0\) with \(x>=3\)
now if \(3=<a<b\) we always have \(\frac{lna}{a}>\frac{lnb}{b}\) or \(a^b>b^a\)(e.g \(5^6>6^5\) and \(6^7>7^6\) and so on)
so the conclusion is if a and b are distinct integers with \(0<a<b\) we have one pair (2,4) with \(a>b>0\) we have another pair (4,2) but if \(3<a<b\) or \(3<=b<a\) the pair that satisfiies the equation does not exist.
User avatar
Manager
Manager
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 109
Own Kudos [?]: 526 [0]
Given Kudos: 148
Send PM
Re: If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a, how many [#permalink]
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
The answer is indeed D (4 solutions). Good work everyone!

Now for the explanation. I tend to get a little verbose... Bear with me.

Given \(a^b = b^a\) and a and b are distinct integers.
First thing that comes to mind is that if we didn't need distinct integers then the answer would have simply been infinite since \(1^1 = 1^1, 2^2 = 2^2, 3^3 = 3^3\) and so on...
Next, integers include positive and negative numbers. If a result is true for positive a and b, it will also be true for negative a and b and vice versa. The reason for this is that both a and b will be either even or both will be odd because \((Even)^{Odd}\)cannot be equal to \((Odd)^{Even}\)
Also, it is not possible that a is positive while b is negative or vice versa because then one side of the equation will have negative power and the other side will have positive power.

So basically, I need to consider positive integers (I can mirror it on to the negative integers subsequently). Also, I will consider only numbers where a < b because the equation is symmetrical in a and b. So if I get a solution of two distinct such integers (e.g. 2 and 4), it will give me two solutions since a can take 2 or 4 which implies that b will take 4 or 2.

Let me take a look at 0. It cannot be 'a' since it will lead to \(0^b = b^0\), not possible.
Next, a cannot be 1 either since it will lead to \(1^b = b^1\), not possible.
Let us consider a = 2. \(2^3 < 3^2\); \(2^4 = 4^2\)(Got my first solution); \(2^5 > 5^2\); \(2^6 > 6^2\) and the difference keeps on widening. This is where pattern recognition comes in the picture. The gap will keep widening.
Now I will consider a = 3. \(3^4 > 4^3\) (first term itself is greater); \(3^5 > 5^3\) and the gap keeps widening.
I can try a couple more values but the pattern should be clear by now. \(4^5 > 5^4, 5^6 > 6^5\) and so on... and as the values keep increasing, the difference in the two terms will keep increasing...

Note: Generally, out of \(a^b\) and \(b^a\), the term where the base is smaller will be the bigger term (I am considering only positive integers here.). In very few cases will it be smaller or equal (only in case of a = 1, \(2^3\) and \(2^4\)).

So I have four solutions (2, 4), (4, 2), (-2, -4) and (-4, -2). This question is pattern recognition based.

Now, we know that if the question did not have the word 'distinct', the answer would have been different, but what if the question did not have the word 'integer'? Would it make a difference? - Something to think about...

(A lot verbose, actually!)


If the question did not have the word 'integer'? Yes, the answer will different. For example: 2^k = k^2
K which is integer could be 2 and 4, and the other k will be a number that is negative. I am sure that is a negative number, since I draw the graph of 2^k and k^2, the two lines will intersect somewhere in the negative area of X axis.
GMAT Club Bot
Re: If a and b are distinct integers and a^b = b^a, how many [#permalink]
 1   2   
Moderators:
Math Expert
92901 posts
Senior Moderator - Masters Forum
3137 posts

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group | Emoji artwork provided by EmojiOne